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Invasion, USA.

EMNofSeattle said:
Not true. Even by your own fake definition of immigrant it’s not true
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Who gives a damn? People have been moving for thousands of years, since Exodus. It’s the way of the world. All we need to do is deal with it like grownups, not like whiny Trump and Carlson babies, who tell us the sky is falling.
 
Nickyjo said:
Who gives a damn? People have been moving for thousands of years, since Exodus. It’s the way of the world. All we need to do is deal with it like grownups, not like whiny Trump and Carlson babies, who tell us the sky is falling.
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Please put this in the Democratic Party platform
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Please put this in the Democratic Party platform
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Easy to do, with something like: "recent immigration, especially illegal immigration, presents severe challenges to the US, but our party will deal with those challenges by strictly enforcing immigration rules within the parameters of the laws and treaties that bind us to shelter refugees, and without the bigoted demagoguery that would scapegoat migrants for our problems. To do otherwise would violate America's traditions and legal standards."
 
EMNofSeattle said:
When pro-immigration advocates claim we need “low skill workers” what they really mean is large companies and Burgeois leftists need low wage indentured servants who they don’t need to process social security and workmen’s comp taxes on. It being a hotel cleaner payed 75 grand a year there would be no shortage. There’s no shortage of workers, only shortage of willingness to pay them a market rate without cheating the system
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Consider yourself awarded a virtual cigar.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Yes there is. We can close a few overseas military bases and put the army on the border. We can put 30,000 troops and a double wall with automatic removal for anyone caught inside the double walled security zone. As part of said removal you will be fingerprinted and retinal scanned and those will databased in a list that makes one forever ineligible for visas.

Economic conditions in Mexico are quite good, as shown by the fact the share of Mexican citizens migrating to America has declined. By a lot. Less then a quarter of current immigrants are Mexican citizens, which is down from almost half decades ago.

We are not lucky, we had ancestors who built a powerful country from the ground up. Nothing about it was luck.
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Beg to differ on your last sentence: history shows us that if anyone had really wanted to, we could have been invaded and conquered at any point from the end of the Revolution to around 1830. If it wasn't for the fact we were considered a side show and that there were more pressing matters in Europe itself...we could've had a short run as a nation given the state of our military and over-estimation of our militias.

The Founders were geniuses, for certain, but not in the area of military effectiveness.

We were damn lucky to have survived that period of time.
 
armoredsole said:
I myself in the past have been an immigrant. Here in the U.S. From my home state on a couple of occasions I went to Texas looking for work. On a couple of occasions I went to Indiana looking for work. On another occasion I went to Florida looking for work. I also went to Virginia once looking for work. It wasn't because I was terribly impoverished or faced possible death. But that's ok because I'm an American.

Those other people are foreigners. **** them. On a couple of occasions I saw mexicans trying to teach Americans Spanish. If anything having to do with spanish was worth a damn, they wouldn't be coming here. Also, I was watching a show about drug dealers once. One of them they interviewed was a mexican drug dealer wearing a disguise. The interviewer asked him what he thought about selling drugs to children. Basically he said that he tried to avoid doing so. But as far as White kids were concerned, he didn't give a damn about them.

Also, in the animal kingdom it is far from unknown for one group to take what another group has. Bonobo chimps settle their differences by having sex with each other. I just don't think that is the way to go. Human history has a long litany of one group trying to take what another group has. If you don't try to protect what you have, you aren't what I would even call a human.
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Personal anecdotes are meaningless and survivorship bias is real.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
When pro-immigration advocates claim we need “low skill workers” what they really mean is large companies and Burgeois leftists need low wage indentured servants who they don’t need to process social security and workmen’s comp taxes on. It being a hotel cleaner payed 75 grand a year there would be no shortage. There’s no shortage of workers, only shortage of willingness to pay them a market rate without cheating the system
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Yes the record is clear: the left consistently opposes any reforms
armoredsole said:
I myself in the past have been an immigrant. Here in the U.S. From my home state on a couple of occasions I went to Texas looking for work. On a couple of occasions I went to Indiana looking for work. On another occasion I went to Florida looking for work. I also went to Virginia once looking for work. It wasn't because I was terribly impoverished or faced possible death. But that's ok because I'm an American.

Those other people are foreigners. **** them. On a couple of occasions I saw mexicans trying to teach Americans Spanish. If anything having to do with spanish was worth a damn, they wouldn't be coming here. Also, I was watching a show about drug dealers once. One of them they interviewed was a mexican drug dealer wearing a disguise. The interviewer asked him what he thought about selling drugs to children. Basically he said that he tried to avoid doing so. But as far as White kids were concerned, he didn't give a damn about them.

Also, in the animal kingdom it is far from unknown for one group to take what another group has. Bonobo chimps settle their differences by having sex with each other. I just don't think that is the way to go. Human history has a long litany of one group trying to take what another group has. If you don't try to protect what you have, you aren't what I would even call a human.
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"If anything about Spanish was worth a damn" takes the prize, combining ignorance and bigotry in one phrase.

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Bodhisattva said:
True but I think that the first to get there get a special place as Natives.
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Why?

You see, I guess this is where I differ. I see all who become citizens as "Americans", I do not care if they walked across the Bearing Land Bridge 30kya, moved here when they fled the Iranian Revolution, or came to escape oppression in Hong Kong. To me, once you become a citizen you are an "American", no one any more special than the other. And in that I even include those who became legal US Residents, no matter how they came here originally.

And all who were born here and did not immigrate are "natives".

However, I have no interest in those that came in illegally, then never took the effort to make themselves "legal".
 
Oozlefinch said:
Why?

You see, I guess this is where I differ. I see all who become citizens as "Americans", I do not care if they walked across the Bearing Land Bridge 30kya, moved here when they fled the Iranian Revolution, or came to escape oppression in Hong Kong. To me, once you become a citizen you are an "American", no one any more special than the other. And in that I even include those who became legal US Residents, no matter how they came here originally.

And all who were born here and did not immigrate are "natives".

However, I have no interest in those that came in illegally, then never took the effort to make themselves "legal".
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I understand the points made, but arent we skipping over the broken treaties and arguable genocide committed against the first arrivals?
 
Oozlefinch said:
Why?

You see, I guess this is where I differ. I see all who become citizens as "Americans", I do not care if they walked across the Bearing Land Bridge 30kya, moved here when they fled the Iranian Revolution, or came to escape oppression in Hong Kong. To me, once you become a citizen you are an "American", no one any more special than the other. And in that I even include those who became legal US Residents, no matter how they came here originally.
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Where did I say otherwise for you to guess that we differ?
Oozlefinch said:
And all who were born here and did not immigrate are "natives".

However, I have no interest in those that came in illegally, then never took the effort to make themselves "legal".
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PirateMk1 said:
Americans.
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If unions were strong, that might happen. We’ve made our bed, have to lie in it. We have been addicted to cheap labor since 1619. Illegals just the latest manifestation of that addiction.
 
Nickyjo said:
I understand the points made, but arent we skipping over the broken treaties and arguable genocide committed against the first arrivals?
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Aren't we skipping over the broken treaties and arguable genocide done by the Indians against white settlers and others?

What, you think this was a one-way street? For every Bear River Massacre, I can bring up a Fort Hall or Utter Massacre. The Lakota were particularly well known for that. Agreeing to allow settlers to pass through their territory, then attacking them as they did so.

Don't go thinking Indians were innocent victims in what happened.
 
Oozlefinch said:
Aren't we skipping over the broken treaties and arguable genocide done by the Indians against white settlers and others?

What, you think this was a one-way street? For every Bear River Massacre, I can bring up a Fort Hall or Utter Massacre. The Lakota were particularly well known for that. Agreeing to allow settlers to pass through their territory, then attacking them as they did so.

Don't go thinking Indians were innocent victims in what happened.
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Somehow the overall moral picture seems to favor the Indians.
 
Oozlefinch said:
Because you only seem to obsess over certain select groups, instead of everybody.

Me, I believe in inclusiveness, not separation and divisiveness.
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So you go after everybody even when the guilty is just a certain select group? LOL
 
Oozlefinch said:
Aren't we skipping over the broken treaties and arguable genocide done by the Indians against white settlers and others?

What, you think this was a one-way street? For every Bear River Massacre, I can bring up a Fort Hall or Utter Massacre. The Lakota were particularly well known for that. Agreeing to allow settlers to pass through their territory, then attacking them as they did so.

Don't go thinking Indians were innocent victims in what happened.
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I didn'trealize that it was the White People that were victims in the hundreds of years land stealing, rape and murder/genocide of the Native Americans.

@ecofarm will want a piece of this.
 
Nickyjo said:
Somehow the overall moral picture seems to favor the Indians.
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Right. Because killing an entire group of settlers passing through on their way to Oregon and only leaving only 2 badly wounded children alive out of 29 is such a good thing to do.

And it was so moral when the Lakota did it over and over again as well. Of course, they were so incredibly moral, as they were living in an area when the Whites came that only a decade or so before had belonged to the Crow.

In other words, reality does not matter, you only want to believe the Pocahontas myths.
 
Bodhisattva said:
I didn'trealize that it was the White People that were victims in the hundreds of years land stealing, rape and murder/genocide of the Native Americans.
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The Indians had been doing that for thousands of years before the Whites even came to the continent.

Oh let me guess, another that believes the Pocahontas Myths. They were all peaceful, living as one with nature and kind to all the animals.

Look up the implosion of the Mississippian Culture. Look up the Pawnee Morning Star Ritual. Look up the bloody path the Lakota carved up the Mississippi to the Great Lakes, then as they were forced to turn west. Chewing through one tribe after another until by the time the whites arrived they were starting to fight the Shoshone in Idaho.

They practiced slavery and human sacrifice into the modern era.

"Land Stealing"? Look up most of the tribes, none of them even thought you could "own land". It literally was a continent of "Might Makes Right". Want some slaves? Want somebody to slaughter so the crops grow? Simply raid the neighboring tribe and take them.

And there was no "genocide". If so, it was the most backwards one in history as there are more Indians in this Continent than even when Columbus arrived. With reservations scattered all over the country.

Oh, and most tribes actually lived fairly peacefully with the immigrants. It was only a relatively small number that had hostile interactions. Because if the Americans really wanted a "genocide", why in the hell are there so many reservations in New England?

You all need to learn some real history, and not the fantasies that others are feeding you.
 
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