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Invasion of Poland.

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Why didn't France and Britain declare war on the Soviets when they invaded Poland together with Germany but did declare war on Germany? And please no Nazi Jewish global conspiracy theories I'm looking at you Lucid and you Imp.
 

TimmyBoy

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Why didn't France and Britain declare war on the Soviets when they invaded Poland together with Germany but did declare war on Germany? And please no Nazi Jewish global conspiracy theories I'm looking at you Lucid and you Imp.
France and England I guess couldn't afford to fight both the Soviet Union and Germany.
 

SKILMATIC

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Why didn't France and Britain declare war on the Soviets when they invaded Poland together with Germany but did declare war on Germany? And please no Nazi Jewish global conspiracy theories I'm looking at you Lucid and you Imp.
Because germany was closer. :rofl
 

TimmyBoy

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Stalin was planning to strike Hitler first long before he invaded Poland. He regarded the capitalist West as the enemy along with Fascist Germany. So, he wanted Hitler and the West to fight it out and destroy each other, then Stalin would come in and "save the day" with a first strike against Nazi Germany and make all of Europe communist. Stalin felt that before any sort of positive change could take place, all captialist systems in the world must be destroyed first, through the use of force if necessary. He and many communists believed in world communist revolution. Then, they believed that positive change in the world and a better world could be built after the erradication of capitalism. Unfortunately for Stalin, Hitler beat him to the punch.
 

Comrade Brian

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TimmyBoy said:
He and many communists believed in world communist revolution.
Stalin did not believe in Communist revolution, he believed in something called "Socialism in one country", he was extremely nationalistic, not the pattern of an internationalist, Stalin sometimes denounced revolutions, and anyways, the only real part he also played in the Russian Revolution was robbing banks for money, and I believe he was arrested eight times. Now Trotsky on the other hand...

Anyways on with the question of the thread.

Britain and France didn't declare war on the USSR because Germany invaded first, and they thought it could be defeated easily because they thought it weak, because of many restrictions they put on it in the 1st WW, the USSR was industrializing rapidly, and they thought it would take more to defeat it.
 
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Comrade Brian said:
Stalin did not believe in Communist revolution, he believed in something called "Socialism in one country", he was extremely nationalistic, not the pattern of an internationalist, Stalin sometimes denounced revolutions, and anyways, the only real part he also played in the Russian Revolution was robbing banks for money, and I believe he was arrested eight times. Now Trotsky on the other hand...

Anyways on with the question of the thread.

Britain and France didn't declare war on the USSR because Germany invaded first, and they thought it could be defeated easily because they thought it weak, because of many restrictions they put on it in the 1st WW, the USSR was industrializing rapidly, and they thought it would take more to defeat it.
It was Trotsky who believed in a global socialist revolution and that the revolution must be continous.
 
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He did.

If only Britain and France, had generals like Patton.

If Patton was in charge of the British and French armies he might have invaded, the now exposed western region of Germany. It is likely that the Allies would have met little opposition on the Western front due to the majority of the German Wermacht fighting in Poland. Maybe a British-French invasion of Germany in the early days of the war could have ended the Nazi nightmare a lot earlier.

But the French and British generals didn't seem to understand the principle of best defence is attack, and it probably didn't help that traitors like Halifax didn't want war with Germany, because they would rather appease Hitler.
 

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Because Britain and France could take Germany but couldn't take Germany AND the USSR (or even the USSR on it's own for that matter). Also, they kind of had a history with Germany. The soviets still had a desire to take over and this was surely obvious to both nations, but that was a longer term threat, not something that needed to be dealt with as suddenly as the German menace.
 

paulmarkj

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Comrade Brian said:
Stalin did not believe in Communist revolution, he believed in something called "Socialism in one country", he was extremely nationalistic, not the pattern of an internationalist, Stalin sometimes denounced revolutions, and anyways, the only real part he also played in the Russian Revolution was robbing banks for money, and I believe he was arrested eight times. Now Trotsky on the other hand...

Anyways on with the question of the thread.

Britain and France didn't declare war on the USSR because Germany invaded first, and they thought it could be defeated easily because they thought it weak, because of many restrictions they put on it in the 1st WW, the USSR was industrializing rapidly, and they thought it would take more to defeat it.
Britain did not underestimate Germany's power. Britain spent a lot of time building arms and delaying the war. For example, during the run up to the war Britain built many ships, which takes time.

Britain also had interest around the world, including India, that required defending, so was wary of over stretching itself.

No country goes to war lightly, and the there no reason to challenge Russia at that point.
 

Plain old me

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Why didn't France and Britain declare war on the Soviets when they invaded Poland together with Germany but did declare war on Germany? And please no Nazi Jewish global conspiracy theories I'm looking at you Lucid and you Imp.
Now, I'm no expert on this, but I would reckon that it was similar to the idea that Britian didn't want to overstretch herself the people have already mentioned. As far as I'm aware, Britian didn't invade Poland to try to win her back, but instead focused on defending France. Because the USSR was no threat to France, why risk making another, theoretically pointless, enemy? Instead you just declare war on Germany, who is the only immediate threat to your greatest ally, and prepare for the invasion of France.
 
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Plain old me said:
Now, I'm no expert on this, but I would reckon that it was similar to the idea that Britian didn't want to overstretch herself the people have already mentioned. As far as I'm aware, Britian didn't invade Poland to try to win her back, but instead focused on defending France. Because the USSR was no threat to France, why risk making another, theoretically pointless, enemy? Instead you just declare war on Germany, who is the only immediate threat to your greatest ally, and prepare for the invasion of France.
Actually Germany didn't declare war on the French, France and Britian declared war on Germany after they invaded Poland, however, the Germans and Russians both invaded Poland together so it seems to me that if the violation of Polish soveriegnty was the catalyst for the war then it would only make sense to declare war on the Soviets as well as the Germans.
 

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I believe there is also the factor that Germany was the original aggressor. Germany and the SU had a secret pact to divide up Poland, but it was Germany that originally attacked Poland. Only after Poland was defeated did the Russian troops roll into eastern Poland.

By that time, the western allies were already at war with Germany.
 

Plain old me

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Actually Germany didn't declare war on the French, France and Britian declared war on Germany after they invaded Poland, however, the Germans and Russians both invaded Poland together so it seems to me that if the violation of Polish soveriegnty was the catalyst for the war then it would only make sense to declare war on the Soviets as well as the Germans.
Sorry...forgot I posted here...:roll:

I know france and Britian declared war on germany etc, but i do not think the violation of Polish soveriegnty WAS the catalyst for war. After Hitler screwed the allies over with Czechoslovakia Chamberlain realised he couldn't be trusted, and gave him one last chance...with a rushed alliance with Poland. I think the alliance with poland was a mere technicality if you see what i mean. Poland was already lost (I believe) by the time British forces were mobilised, so they focused on defending France rather then winning back Poland. The USSR was no threat to France, or Britian, and the allies didn't have the military resources to retake Poland, so there was no point declaring war on the USSR.

Also remember that Churchill was proved right after the invasion of Czechoslovakia, and was reinstated at the admiralty, he saw the USSR as a potential ally in the defeat of Germany. Stalin and Hitler were not very good friends, and I think the fact that they would soon be at war was pretty predictable, so he wanted to avoid making an enemy out of the USSR, when it could be a useful ally eventually.
 

Mark O'Neill

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Even if Britain and France had tried to help Poland, it wouldn't have mattered - Poland was lost as soon as the first German soldier crossed the border - and even more so as soon as Soviet troops crossed the other border. The Poles did put up a pretty good account of themselves - the German's lost more aircraft than they shot down (This is to Biplanes, BTW), and most of the Polish Air Force they destroyed on the ground were old trainers, and obscelescent (sp?) aircraft. 'What we could have done with a few squadrons of Hurricanes' is oft quoted by polish fighter pilots.
 
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Mark O'Neill said:
Even if Britain and France had tried to help Poland, it wouldn't have mattered - Poland was lost as soon as the first German soldier crossed the border - and even more so as soon as Soviet troops crossed the other border. The Poles did put up a pretty good account of themselves - the German's lost more aircraft than they shot down (This is to Biplanes, BTW), and most of the Polish Air Force they destroyed on the ground were old trainers, and obscelescent (sp?) aircraft. 'What we could have done with a few squadrons of Hurricanes' is oft quoted by polish fighter pilots.

The point is that Britian and France declared war on Germany after it invaded Poland in alliance with the Soviets, so by that reasoning should not the allies have declared war on the Soviets also?
 

Mark O'Neill

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Britain and France declared war on Germany when they invaded Poland on the 1st September. Russia invaded Poland September 17th - Britain and France had nothing to gain by declaring war on Russia, and were also hoping to keep Russia as an ally - a plan which ultimately won the war for the Allies.
 

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The USSR used Poland as a cushion from being invaded by the Nazis. It really was a good idea. Nazis got greedy by trying to invade the USSR, which in turn, is the one of the reasons the Nazis lost the war, they were fighting two fronts.
 

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I think Germany could have 'won' the war if they hadn't invaded USSR. I use won in air quotes because it probably would have ended with England being invaded, and so no chance of retaking Europe for America, and Africa and the Middle East would have fallen soon after. Stalin actually trusted Hitler and would have been willing to keep the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact; at least for a few years. And America and Germany would have had a peace, Japan would have taken most of the European colonies in the Pacific, maybe even Australia, and after that, it gets really complicated to even guess what would have happened. Suffice to say, I would have ended my message from a computer in England...

Auf Wiedersehen
 
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