Internal Earth-driven Warming? (1 Viewer)

[Jack Hays]

This is a genuinely new idea, at least for me. Worth discussing, I think.


Part of the heat is coming from beneath our feet.

Posted on September 8, 2020 by curryja | 74 comments
by Judith Curry
A thought-provoking article from my new favorite blog, The Ethical Skeptic.
Continue reading →

". . . The article that motivates this post is one entitled The Climate Change Alternative We Ignore (to Our Peril). Subtitle: “When the Earth’s core enters an exothermic cycle, the Earth’s air-conditioning heat pump gets less efficient.”. . .

The paper includes nine observations that are ‘inconvenient’ to the 100% AGW hypothesis:
Observation 1 (Inductive-Introduces Plurality) – Fall to Winter CO2 Rise Exhibits a Northern Hemisphere Winter Solstice Pause Which Should Not Exist if All PPM is Generated by Man Alone – Coronavirus Industrial Shutdown only Served to Produce Record CO2 PPM Increases
Observation 2 (Inductive-Introduces Plurality) – Atmospheric CO2 Levels Follow Temperature Rises and Are Accelerating – Man’s Carbon Producing Activity is Linear and of Insufficient Slope to Drive This
Observation 3 (Deductive-Introduces Plurality) – Ceres EBAF measures of Earth’s Reemergent Albedo are Higher Than They Should Be – Indicating Earth is Not CO2-Capturing as Much Heat as Climate Models Require
Observation 4 (Inductive-Introduces Critical Path) – Mean Sea Level is Rising Yes – But MSL Variance Range is Also Increasing (and Should Not Be) – Global Ocean Current Speed has Increased by 15% Over that Same Timeframe
Observation 5 (Deductive-Consilient) – The Schumann Resonance Banding-Amplitude Has Ranged High – While Geomagnetic Moment/Polarity has Weakened/Wandered – All Highly Commensurate with Historical and Recent Global Temperature Increases
Observation 6 (Deductive-Consilient) – Earth’s Rotation is Slowing Faster than Historical – Indicating a Recent-Term But Constant Ferrous Mass Contribution in Phase Change from l-HCP Outer Core to l-FCC Lower Mantle
Observation 7 (Inductive-Consilient) – Recent-Term Rise in Activity of Earth’s Upper Mantle in Terms of Earthquakes and Volcanic Activity Commensurate with Temperature Increases
Observation 8 (Deductive-Critical Path) – Heat Anomalies are Not Entropic – Rather Bear Recurring Mantle-Like Cohesiveness – Heat is Arising Principally from Ocean Conveyance Belts at Mid-Atlantic Rise and El Niño Thermohaline Currents
Observation 9 (Deductive-Critical Path) – Abyssal Oceans are Absorbing More Novel Heat Content per Cubic Meter of Ocean (ΔT-gigajoules/m3) than are Surface Oceans by an Enormous Margin – This is Neglected and Highly Critical Path Climate Science . . . ."

 

[chuckiechan]

This is a genuinely new idea, at least for me. Worth discussing, I think.


Part of the heat is coming from beneath our feet.

[FONT=&]Posted on September 8, 2020 by curryja | 74 comments[/FONT]
by Judith Curry
A thought-provoking article from my new favorite blog, The Ethical Skeptic.
Continue reading →

". . . The article that motivates this post is one entitled The Climate Change Alternative We Ignore (to Our Peril). Subtitle: “When the Earth’s core enters an exothermic cycle, the Earth’s air-conditioning heat pump gets less efficient.”. . .

The paper includes nine observations that are ‘inconvenient’ to the 100% AGW hypothesis:
Observation 1 (Inductive-Introduces Plurality) – Fall to Winter CO2 Rise Exhibits a Northern Hemisphere Winter Solstice Pause Which Should Not Exist if All PPM is Generated by Man Alone – Coronavirus Industrial Shutdown only Served to Produce Record CO2 PPM Increases
Observation 2 (Inductive-Introduces Plurality) – Atmospheric CO2 Levels Follow Temperature Rises and Are Accelerating – Man’s Carbon Producing Activity is Linear and of Insufficient Slope to Drive This
Observation 3 (Deductive-Introduces Plurality) – Ceres EBAF measures of Earth’s Reemergent Albedo are Higher Than They Should Be – Indicating Earth is Not CO2-Capturing as Much Heat as Climate Models Require
Observation 4 (Inductive-Introduces Critical Path) – Mean Sea Level is Rising Yes – But MSL Variance Range is Also Increasing (and Should Not Be) – Global Ocean Current Speed has Increased by 15% Over that Same Timeframe
Observation 5 (Deductive-Consilient) – The Schumann Resonance Banding-Amplitude Has Ranged High – While Geomagnetic Moment/Polarity has Weakened/Wandered – All Highly Commensurate with Historical and Recent Global Temperature Increases
Observation 6 (Deductive-Consilient) – Earth’s Rotation is Slowing Faster than Historical – Indicating a Recent-Term But Constant Ferrous Mass Contribution in Phase Change from l-HCP Outer Core to l-FCC Lower Mantle
Observation 7 (Inductive-Consilient) – Recent-Term Rise in Activity of Earth’s Upper Mantle in Terms of Earthquakes and Volcanic Activity Commensurate with Temperature Increases
Observation 8 (Deductive-Critical Path) – Heat Anomalies are Not Entropic – Rather Bear Recurring Mantle-Like Cohesiveness – Heat is Arising Principally from Ocean Conveyance Belts at Mid-Atlantic Rise and El Niño Thermohaline Currents
Observation 9 (Deductive-Critical Path) – Abyssal Oceans are Absorbing More Novel Heat Content per Cubic Meter of Ocean (ΔT-gigajoules/m3) than are Surface Oceans by an Enormous Margin – This is Neglected and Highly Critical Path Climate Science . . . ."

Well, we are ****ed now! California is going to start cooling its little chunk of the Earths core!

The problem is there is no money in it because there is nothing you can do.

 

[istodolez]

This is a genuinely new idea, at least for me. Worth discussing, I think.


Part of the heat is coming from beneath our feet.

[FONT=&]Posted on September 8, 2020 by curryja | 74 comments[/FONT]

Well, everyone knows that the earth itself generates heat from the decay of radioisotopes as well as leftover "primordial heat" from our accretion...so the key appears to be this bit:

The Earth’s core is undergoing extreme exothermic change – shedding high-latent-energy hexagonal closepack (HCP) iron into the mantle where it converts to face centered cubic (FCC) iron.

I would dearly love to see where this "snippet" comes from. Just SOME supporting evidence. Clearly this would have to be a change to account for the current heating (even in part).

Also, Jack, can you tell me what the enthalpy is for the FCC-->HCP phase change is?

This takes me back to my theoretical geochemistry class in grad school. We had generate phase diagrams from the thermodynamic equations for the various phase changes. That was a bit too "physical chemistry" for me...especially the inorganic stuff.

 

[istodolez]

This is a genuinely new idea, at least for me. Worth discussing, I think.


Part of the heat is coming from beneath our feet.

As just an aside, Jack, if you want to see what kind of stuff you are dipping your toe into here I present this paper to you to give you a hint of what kind of math is involved in these various discussions:

Thermodynamics and Equations of State of Iron to 350 GPa and 6000 K

 

[Jack Hays]

Well, everyone knows that the earth itself generates heat from the decay of radioisotopes as well as leftover "primordial heat" from our accretion...so the key appears to be this bit:



I would dearly love to see where this "snippet" comes from. Just SOME supporting evidence. Clearly this would have to be a change to account for the current heating (even in part).

Also, Jack, can you tell me what the enthalpy is for the FCC-->HCP phase change is?

This takes me back to my theoretical geochemistry class in grad school. We had generate phase diagrams from the thermodynamic equations for the various phase changes. That was a bit too "physical chemistry" for me...especially the inorganic stuff.

As just an aside, Jack, if you want to see what kind of stuff you are dipping your toe into here I present this paper to you to give you a hint of what kind of math is involved in these various discussions:

Thermodynamics and Equations of State of Iron to 350 GPa and 6000 K

The author:

". . . what I am summarizing in very short form herein stems from hundreds of hours of research and literally multiple hundreds of references which I cannot possibly compile into this blog article by coherent sequence – without sacrificing the ability to deliver its core message. This idea is a construct, an idea which aspires to be developed into real hypothesis. . . ."

 

[istodolez]

The author:

". . . what I am summarizing in very short form herein stems from hundreds of hours of research and literally multiple hundreds of references which I cannot possibly compile into this blog article by coherent sequence – without sacrificing the ability to deliver its core message. This idea is a construct, an idea which aspires to be developed into real hypothesis. . . ."

So, as in all the other stuff, you don't know any technical details on this one either? Not even the basics?

OK.

Do you make a lot of decisions in the complete absence of even basic understanding of the topic?

 

[Jack Hays]

So, as in all the other stuff, you don't know any technical details on this one either? Not even the basics?

OK.

Do you make a lot of decisions in the complete absence of even basic understanding of the topic?

No decisions here. Just putting out an interesting new idea. I'm not invested one way or the other.

 

[istodolez]

No decisions here. Just putting out an interesting new idea. I'm not invested one way or the other.

Oh, OK. I'm, also, quite interested, but then I also have education in geochemical thermodynamics.

I'm curious about your interest. Because every time you post something if someone asks a question about it you drop the discussion. It's like the topic is dead once you get it posted. That doesn't sound like "interest" to me.

 

[Jack Hays]

Oh, OK. I'm, also, quite interested, but then I also have education in geochemical thermodynamics.

I'm curious about your interest. Because every time you post something if someone asks a question about it you drop the discussion. It's like the topic is dead once you get it posted. That doesn't sound like "interest" to me.

No, I don't drop the discussion. But I don't make claims or arguments beyond my knowledge and/or skill set. I'm mostly interested in how others react.

 

[istodolez]

No, I don't drop the discussion.

Yes you do. When I ask you a question about the topics you post you reply with things like "Don't know, Don't care" (HERE) or "good luck" (HERE) .

Sometimes you find some random quote that doesn't really discuss the question.

But I don't make claims or arguments beyond my knowledge and/or skill set.

That certainly explains your usual response to questions about the stuff you post (vide supra)

I'm mostly interested in how others react.

That sounds like "trolling".

 

[Robertinfremont]

No, I don't drop the discussion. But I don't make claims or arguments beyond my knowledge and/or skill set. I'm mostly interested in how others react.

What he should do Jack is what I did years ago and get into the Curry Site to get the views of scientists. There he will find a good deal of discussion.

 

[Jack Hays]

Yes you do. When I ask you a question about the topics you post you reply with things like "Don't know, Don't care" (HERE) or "good luck" (HERE) .

Sometimes you find some random quote that doesn't really discuss the question.



That certainly explains your usual response to questions about the stuff you post (vide supra)



That sounds like "trolling".

Actually, your focus on me rather than the topic is trolling.

 

[Threegoofs]

This is a genuinely new idea, at least for me. Worth discussing, I think.


Part of the heat is coming from beneath our feet.

Posted on September 8, 2020 by curryja | 74 comments
by Judith Curry
A thought-provoking article from my new favorite blog, The Ethical Skeptic.
Continue reading →

". . . The article that motivates this post is one entitled The Climate Change Alternative We Ignore (to Our Peril). Subtitle: “When the Earth’s core enters an exothermic cycle, the Earth’s air-conditioning heat pump gets less efficient.”. . .

The paper includes nine observations that are ‘inconvenient’ to the 100% AGW hypothesis:
Observation 1 (Inductive-Introduces Plurality) – Fall to Winter CO2 Rise Exhibits a Northern Hemisphere Winter Solstice Pause Which Should Not Exist if All PPM is Generated by Man Alone – Coronavirus Industrial Shutdown only Served to Produce Record CO2 PPM Increases
Observation 2 (Inductive-Introduces Plurality) – Atmospheric CO2 Levels Follow Temperature Rises and Are Accelerating – Man’s Carbon Producing Activity is Linear and of Insufficient Slope to Drive This
Observation 3 (Deductive-Introduces Plurality) – Ceres EBAF measures of Earth’s Reemergent Albedo are Higher Than They Should Be – Indicating Earth is Not CO2-Capturing as Much Heat as Climate Models Require
Observation 4 (Inductive-Introduces Critical Path) – Mean Sea Level is Rising Yes – But MSL Variance Range is Also Increasing (and Should Not Be) – Global Ocean Current Speed has Increased by 15% Over that Same Timeframe
Observation 5 (Deductive-Consilient) – The Schumann Resonance Banding-Amplitude Has Ranged High – While Geomagnetic Moment/Polarity has Weakened/Wandered – All Highly Commensurate with Historical and Recent Global Temperature Increases
Observation 6 (Deductive-Consilient) – Earth’s Rotation is Slowing Faster than Historical – Indicating a Recent-Term But Constant Ferrous Mass Contribution in Phase Change from l-HCP Outer Core to l-FCC Lower Mantle
Observation 7 (Inductive-Consilient) – Recent-Term Rise in Activity of Earth’s Upper Mantle in Terms of Earthquakes and Volcanic Activity Commensurate with Temperature Increases
Observation 8 (Deductive-Critical Path) – Heat Anomalies are Not Entropic – Rather Bear Recurring Mantle-Like Cohesiveness – Heat is Arising Principally from Ocean Conveyance Belts at Mid-Atlantic Rise and El Niño Thermohaline Currents
Observation 9 (Deductive-Critical Path) – Abyssal Oceans are Absorbing More Novel Heat Content per Cubic Meter of Ocean (ΔT-gigajoules/m3) than are Surface Oceans by an Enormous Margin – This is Neglected and Highly Critical Path Climate Science . . . ."

Deniers gonna deny.

 

[Threegoofs]

No, I don't drop the discussion. But I don't make claims or arguments beyond my knowledge and/or skill set. I'm mostly interested in how others react.

Deniers gonna deny.

 

[Jack Hays]

Deniers gonna deny.

The author is an AGW believer.

 

[Threegoofs]

The author is an AGW believer.

Lukewarmer.

 

[istodolez]

Actually, your focus on me rather than the topic is trolling.

Maybe if you would actually talk about the topic once in a while...

(That would, of course, require you to understand some of the details behind what you post, but there's always a chance!)

 

[istodolez]

What he should do Jack is what I did years ago and get into the Curry Site to get the views of scientists. There he will find a good deal of discussion.

Nah, I actually prefer my doctorate in geology and reading actual science to dredging through denialist/skeptic sites for my view of the science.

 

[Jack Hays]

Lukewarmer.

Interesting. The author's identity is unknown.

 

[Jack Hays]

Maybe if you would actually talk about the topic once in a while...

(That would, of course, require you to understand some of the details behind what you post, but there's always a chance!)

Nah, I actually prefer my doctorate in geology and reading actual science to dredging through denialist/skeptic sites for my view of the science.

What you actually like to talk about is how more credentialed you are than those with whom you interact here.

 

[Robertinfremont]

Nah, I actually prefer my doctorate in geology and reading actual science to dredging through denialist/skeptic sites for my view of the science.

I would stick to your doctorate then and not engage in climate discussions. Curry presents all views. If you wanted your view expressed, she allows it.

 

[Robertinfremont]

What you actually like to talk about is how more credentialed you are than those with whom you interact here.

He wants us to confuse a doctorate in geology as were it a doctorate in climate. Curry holds a doctorate in climate. Naturally he will not leap to her site to discuss is views with those scientists.

 

[Robertinfremont]

Deniers gonna deny.

Alarmists gonna alarm.

 

[Threegoofs]

He wants us to confuse a doctorate in geology as were it a doctorate in climate. Curry holds a doctorate in climate. Naturally he will not leap to her site to discuss is views with those scientists.

Her PhD is in Geophysical Sciences, not climate.

But you being wrong is kinda par for the course, so we’ll let it slide

 

[istodolez]

What you actually like to talk about is how more credentialed you are than those with whom you interact here.

Well, you could challenge me on the technical stuff if you like. And by "challenge" I don't mean grabbing some random denialist blog post and then running away ...