Interesting video explains problems with the minimum wage.

[Juanita]

I was in Birmingham Alabama at the time. They started with Wal-Mart and spread from there. Now even my commissary here in Okinawa has them; once the initial investments are made, I guess economy of scale eventually kicks in.

Teens are (as mentioned above) not the best of indicators (they don't need jobs, and can float more easily out of the "unemployed" lines into the "not seeking" lines), but I think that this pretty poignantly makes the point:

That gap between the numbers at $5.15 and $7.25? Those numbers represent people. People like my sister in law - people now unable to get employment.

No, it represents school kids and not the unemployed grown folks who have replaced them..

 

[274ina]

Dude, I work and live in Germany, and I'm not in an union. Nothing in your little anecdote even remotely hinted that EVERY worker in Germany is in a union, because they aren't at all.

There are federal laws against mandatory union membership, and only certain types of mid to low end jobs are unionized. I think voluntary unions are a great idea, but I know you're a big fan of US unions forcing workers to join or they don't get the job.

And no, we don't all get what union workers in the US get, that is also nonsense. If you'd like to present any actual facts showing all German workers get union benefits, by all means do it. I can then go to my work and tell all my co-workers about how a guy on an internet forum is telling us that we've all been scammed.

YES YES YES< I see you cant expand your brain to see the my point.

How about you show everyone the "at will" workers" in Germany.........

Like I said, "union" benifits for all in Germany.

Kundigungschutzgesetz is the german word and its aint "at will"

 

[RabidAlpaca]

YES YES YES< I see you cant expand your brain to see the my point.

How about you show everyone the "at will" workers" in Germany.........

Like I said, "union" benifits for all in Germany.

Kundigungschutzgesetz is the german word and its aint "at will"

You must be smoking something fierce, because I have no idea what you're talking about. Union membership is voluntary, and most people are actually not in unions, to include myself.

So you keep doing whatever it is you do around here.

 

[cpwill]

No, it represents school kids

My sister isn't a school kid. She's a working teenage single mother. If it did represent only school kids, however, then that would mean that the effects it was demonstrating was in reality even greater (see below).

not the unemployed grown folks who have replaced them..

Nobody replaced them - that is the teen unemployment rate minus the regular employment rate, but at a time when the regular employment rate for low-income workers also climbed dramatically. If anything, this chart should show less of a relationship; since (many being school kids) they are more likely to simply stop looking for work alltogether. What this indicates is that those populaces with the least education and experience (people like my sister, whom you would brutally dismiss and doom to a life of poverty and dependency - though perhaps not on purpose) are the most susceptible to the effects of artificial labor-cost increases. Which is precisely what was predicted, and precisely what happened.

 

[YoungConserv]

Watched 37 seconds of it. It's ridiculous.

Firing Jimmy the lawnmower kid does not stop the grass from growing.

Right but I can live with my grass being long or cut it my self.

 

[YoungConserv]

You must be smoking something fierce, because I have no idea what you're talking about. Union membership is voluntary, and most people are actually not in unions, to include myself.

So you keep doing whatever it is you do around here.

Actually it's not if you have a lock on that shop meaning if I want to work there I have to join that's not voluntary.

 

[YoungConserv]

I found the vid to be a good simple summary about minimum wage.

What it did not address is when the min wage is raised, what is the impact on the mid level more experienced workers? What I am getting at for example is if a new hire gets paid min wage. and a 1 year experience workers gets paid 15% more than min wage. When you raise min. wage, should not the more experienced worker get a raise to maintain the 15%. If not, then basically you are saying the more experienced worker now has less value when compared to a new employee. Bottom line, its inflation.
Nothing is free.

Exactly!

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Actually it's not if you have a lock on that shop meaning if I want to work there I have to join that's not voluntary.

We're talking about Germany. Mandatory Union requirements are illegal according to federal law. Which is a good thing.

 

[AngryOldGuy]

Why are we talking about Germany ? Will they have a say in what the minimum wage will be in the U.S.?
Will a higher bottom wage here allow more of us to own one of these?
If so sign me up

cayman s

 

[Juanita]

My sister isn't a school kid. She's a working teenage single mother. If it did represent only school kids, however, then that would mean that the effects it was demonstrating was in reality even greater (see below).



Nobody replaced them - that is the teen unemployment rate minus the regular employment rate, but at a time when the regular employment rate for low-income workers also climbed dramatically. If anything, this chart should show less of a relationship; since (many being school kids) they are more likely to simply stop looking for work alltogether. What this indicates is that those populaces with the least education and experience (people like my sister, whom you would brutally dismiss and doom to a life of poverty and dependency - though perhaps not on purpose) are the most susceptible to the effects of artificial labor-cost increases. Which is precisely what was predicted, and precisely what happened.

I have listened to all your arguments, but still cannot agree with you.. I have seen where raising the basic wage at one retail company was a win-win to all involved and I can't see where it would be any different on a larger scale, especially if it was done on a graduated basis.... Good luck to your sil. I'm sure she will do better than expected...

 

[AngryOldGuy]

Angry's one simple rule: gubberment meddlin' in the free market is never a good thing.

 

[cpwill]

I have listened to all your arguments, but still cannot agree with you.

You do not want to agree with me because it would mean that your well-intentioned efforts are in fact hurting the people that you seek to help. You have failed to demonstrate your claims, and the fact that hiking the minimum wage leads to higher unemployment among our most vulnerable populaces remains unanswered by you. You seem to be depending on the Just-So fallacy, where you refuse to listen to data because you find it inconvenient.

I have seen where raising the basic wage at one retail company was a win-win to all involved and I can't see where it would be any different on a larger scale, especially if it was done on a graduated basis.... Good luck to your sil. I'm sure she will do better than expected...

:shrug: so long as people like you are not allowed to move the bottom rung of life's ladder out of her reach, she will always have the chance to do so.

 

[Juanita]

You do not want to agree with me because it would mean that your well-intentioned efforts are in fact hurting the people that you seek to help. You have failed to demonstrate your claims, and the fact that hiking the minimum wage leads to higher unemployment among our most vulnerable populaces remains unanswered by you. You seem to be depending on the Just-So fallacy, where you refuse to listen to data because you find it inconvenient.



:shrug: so long as people like you are not allowed to move the bottom rung of life's ladder out of her reach, she will always have the chance to do so.

There seem to be pros and con's to this issue.. Articles in The Economist and other financial outlets say that for the most part "increasing the minimum wage does not have significant effects on employment". And that past min. wage increases had negligible short or long term effects... So there seem to be just as many experts for it as against it.. I agree to disagree...

 

[AngryOldGuy]

Well you are right about that, in an economy with a U6 unemployment rate hovering around ~16%
And millions of 'discouraged' workers that aren't even being counted as unemployed
And epicmealtime increases in medical insurance premiums that effectively reduce incomes
And millions being dropped to part time status so the employer's avoid having to pay for the ACA
and and and yeah well raising the minimum wage makes them look like they are doing something
when in reality it won't make any difference (except maybe to those that will inevitably lose their jobs as a result)