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interesting article...

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Goshin

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In particular, I found this interesting... I've read about it in secular scientific articles, as well, though not put in this context...


Writing in the Wall Street Journal, Christian author Eric Metaxas notes, “The fine-tuning necessary for life to exist on a planet is nothing compared with the fine-tuning required for the universe to exist at all. For example, astrophysicists now know that the values of the four fundamental forces – gravity, the electromagnetic force, and the ‘strong’ and ‘weak’ nuclear forces – were determined less than one-millionth of a second after the big bang. Alter any one value and the universe could not exist. For instance, if the ratio between the nuclear strong force and the electromagnetic force had been off by the tiniest fraction of the tiniest fraction – by even one part in 100,000,000,000,000,000 – then no stars could have ever formed at all. Feel free to gulp. … It would be like tossing a coin and having it come up heads 10 quintillion times in a row. Really?”


The Big Bang Blows Atheism Sky High: Even Science May Eventually Catch Up to God?s Word
 

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In particular, I found this interesting... I've read about it in secular scientific articles, as well, though not put in this context...





The Big Bang Blows Atheism Sky High: Even Science May Eventually Catch Up to God?s Word


The fine tune argument is one big logical fallacy known as the "Texas Sharpshooter fallacy'. According to physiologist Victor Stenger, the universe is not as fine tuned as many people claim. He basically went through calculations of 'what would the universe look like if these parameters were changed', and he found there was a much greater variation of possibilities to allow a universe that would support stars and galaxy's than the 'fine tuning' people will admit.

As a physicist, he would know more about the subject matter than a radio host.
 

ludin

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In particular, I found this interesting... I've read about it in secular scientific articles, as well, though not put in this context...





The Big Bang Blows Atheism Sky High: Even Science May Eventually Catch Up to God?s Word

This has been known for a while.
both Rodger Pemrose and Steven Hawking calculated that the big bang was no possible.

the entropy levels were so high that it was scientifically impossible.

while later on hawking would recant on this his recant was destroyed by the higgs boson field.
 

ludin

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The fine tune argument is one big logical fallacy known as the "Texas Sharpshooter fallacy'. According to physiologist Victor Stenger, the universe is not as fine tuned as many people claim. He basically went through calculations of 'what would the universe look like if these parameters were changed', and he found there was a much greater variation of possibilities to allow a universe that would support stars and galaxy's than the 'fine tuning' people will admit.

As a physicist, he would know more about the subject matter than a radio host.

yet it was a physicist that calculated the needed energies required in the strong and weak forces
and went this is crazy.

this is also backed up by notable scientists such as Rodger Pemrose which calculated the entropy levels of the big bang to be
1 to the 10^134. that basically 1 followed by ten 0's followed by 134 zero's.

there isn't a name to describe it.
 

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The big bang is a creation myth, like any other.
 

Paleocon

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In particular, I found this interesting... I've read about it in secular scientific articles, as well, though not put in this context...





The Big Bang Blows Atheism Sky High: Even Science May Eventually Catch Up to God?s Word

"Never argue with an idiot, he'll bring you down to his level and beat you at his own game."

In this case the "idiots" are often highly intelligent in an IQ sense, but the point still holds. The problem with these probabilistic arguments is that they grant the fundamental assumption of scientism, that questions like the existence of God can be answered by contingent empirical observations. This is absurd because God is by definition necessary being, his existence, and the logical certainty of his existence, are not dependent on contingent facts such as how the forced relate and what have you.
 

Captain Adverse

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“The fine-tuning necessary for life to exist on a planet is nothing compared with the fine-tuning required for the universe to exist at all. For example, astrophysicists now know that the values of the four fundamental forces – gravity, the electromagnetic force, and the ‘strong’ and ‘weak’ nuclear forces – were determined less than one-millionth of a second after the big bang. Alter any one value and the universe could not exist. For instance, if the ratio between the nuclear strong force and the electromagnetic force had been off by the tiniest fraction of the tiniest fraction – by even one part in 100,000,000,000,000,000 – then no stars could have ever formed at all. Feel free to gulp. … It would be like tossing a coin and having it come up heads 10 quintillion times in a row. Really?”

Hmmm. Well the clear counter to that is simply this...what infinite amount of time passed while the mass of whatever existed without exploding while it boiled around until things were "right" for it to do so?

While I agree that our Universe is orderly and believe there was some guiding force, I don't think THIS argument proves much of anything. :shrug:
 
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