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Intangibility

Wake

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According to athiest evolutionists, anything that cannot be seen or touched can therefore not exist.

To them that includes God.

But then, we can neither see nor touch our minds. We cannot see nor touch evil. We cannot see not touch love, greed, hate, gluttony, justice, wisdom, etc.

By crossing out God using this mechanism of thinking, one must also cross out other intangible things as those afore-mentioned. Would the athiest evolutionists then say that all of our deeds and emotions are naught but chemical reactions to stimuli? Hm, tell yourself that your internal reasoning is nothing but chemical reactions.
 

Wiseone

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According to athiest evolutionists, anything that cannot be seen or touched can therefore not exist.

To them that includes God.

But then, we can neither see nor touch our minds. We cannot see nor touch evil. We cannot see not touch love, greed, hate, gluttony, justice, wisdom, etc.

By crossing out God using this mechanism of thinking, one must also cross out other intangible things as those afore-mentioned. Would the athiest evolutionists then say that all of our deeds and emotions are naught but chemical reactions to stimuli? Hm, tell yourself that your internal reasoning is nothing but chemical reactions.

Ya its just that simple, you've ended the debate once and for all. Its the same reason atheists don't believe in physics, I mean you can't SEE gravity. You cannot see molecules and atoms, you cannot see a virus.

I think its been demonstrated quite thoroughly in life that someone can believe in justice or emotions and not believe in God.
 
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spud_meister

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According to athiest evolutionists, anything that cannot be seen or touched can therefore not exist.

To them that includes God.

But then, we can neither see nor touch our minds. We cannot see nor touch evil. We cannot see not touch love, greed, hate, gluttony, justice, wisdom, etc.

By crossing out God using this mechanism of thinking, one must also cross out other intangible things as those afore-mentioned. Would the athiest evolutionists then say that all of our deeds and emotions are naught but chemical reactions to stimuli? Hm, tell yourself that your internal reasoning is nothing but chemical reactions.

And so, to continue your reasoning, all that's required for something to exist is a belief in it. Yay!! I have a giant purple goldfish swimming around my ceiling.
And to continue it a bit further, unless you can prove that logic, or justice exist beyond the mind, how are we to be sure that God exists beyond the mind?
 
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Singularity

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According to athiest evolutionists, anything that cannot be seen or touched can therefore not exist.

This statement is not correct. Atheists and those of us who rely on science to further understand our world realize that many things which cannot be touched or seen do indeed exist. Electricity, quarks, leptons, and even a summer breeze cannot be seen nor touched, but we can empirically prove that such things exist. You are falling into the trap that many religious people end up in; to further strengthen your faith, you attack those who deny it because we don't find any evidence to support it.

I don't believe in your deity. Don't take it personal, because I don't believe in any deity - not just yours. However, if one shows up and wants to sit down for a chit-chat with me one day, i'd certainly give him some time. But I don't feel the need to start running my life based on some holy book that's filled with commandments and examples that I personally find to be silly and inconsistent. If that's your cup of tea, then have at it.
 
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Catz Part Deux

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But then, we can neither see nor touch our minds. We cannot see nor touch evil. We cannot see not touch love, greed, hate, gluttony, justice, wisdom, etc.

B.S. If you take your brain out of your skull, YOU CAN TOUCH IT.

This is what evil looks like:

holocaust123.jpg


This is what love looks like:

mother_and_child.jpg


This is what hate looks like:

skinhead.jpg


This is what gluttony looks like:

hugh-hefner-plastic-surgery.jpg


Those are words that represent real concepts that we're all familiar with. Every single one of us has seen hate/greed/love/kindness/evil/good. You're creating a fake argument here.

When have you seen God?
 

Arcana XV

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According to athiest evolutionists, anything that cannot be seen or touched can therefore not exist.

To them that includes God.

But then, we can neither see nor touch our minds. We cannot see nor touch evil. We cannot see not touch love, greed, hate, gluttony, justice, wisdom, etc.

I've seen and/or felt all of the above. I've never seen nor felt any god. And believe me, I've tried. As an atheist, I have an endless fascination with this completely alien concept to me that is faith. I see it in other people, but I can't seem to be able to feel it. So I've looked. I've studied most of the major religions and many of the minor ones and ... nothing. Not even a glimpse of an epiphany. But as for the other stuff you mention, I've seen all of it. Some of it, I wish I'd never, ever experienced at all.
 

rathi

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According to athiest evolutionists, anything that cannot be seen or touched can therefore not exist.

Your forgot the other three senses. Also we have technology that lets us take things we can't see and represent them in a visual fashion.

But then, we can neither see nor touch our minds. We cannot see nor touch evil. We cannot see not touch love, greed, hate, gluttony, justice, wisdom, etc.

You certainly can see minds. You can look at an MRI machine and see the electrical impulses that make up all the mental states you described.

By crossing out God using this mechanism of thinking, one must also cross out other intangible things as those afore-mentioned. Would the athiest evolutionists then say that all of our deeds and emotions are naught but chemical reactions to stimuli? Hm, tell yourself that your internal reasoning is nothing but chemical reactions.

Yes my internal reasoning is nothing more than chemical reactions. I am not narcissistic enough to believe that human emotions are so special that they need some supernatural backing behind them. It is laughably insecure that people need a deity to validate their emotions.
 

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According to athiest evolutionists, anything that cannot be seen or touched can therefore not exist.
According to rational skeptics something that has no evidence whatsoever for it's existence is indistinguishable from something that doesn't exist.

To them that includes God.
I'm always open to explanations for why it is reasonable to believe in a deity.

But then, we can neither see nor touch our minds. We cannot see nor touch evil. We cannot see not touch love, greed, hate, gluttony, justice, wisdom, etc.
None of those are things in and of themselves. They describe certain actions, and we can label these actions as e.g. evil. Speed can be used as a noun as in "the speed of the car", but speed itself isn't really a "thing", we recognize speed as an aspect of something. In is in this same sense that we can see love or greed.

By crossing out God using this mechanism of thinking, one must also cross out other intangible things as those afore-mentioned.
God isn't just an aspect of something, it's a "thing" by itself. For me, there has been no good reason I have seen for me to believe in God so far.

Would the athiest evolutionists then say that all of our deeds and emotions are naught but chemical reactions to stimuli? Hm, tell yourself that your internal reasoning is nothing but chemical reactions.
What if they are? Why is it that a soul is a better thing to think with than chemical and electric reactions.
 

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According to athiest evolutionists, anything that cannot be seen or touched can therefore not exist.
evolution - is the change in the inherited traits of a population of organisms through successive generations.(wiki)
atheist - someone who believes that no gods exist

I don't see anything in either of those distinct definitions that rests on "seen or touch confers existence". You may need to elaborate (or not, because there are no dieties).

But then, we can neither see nor touch our minds..
We're fairly certain it's your brain. By fairly, I mean, we're certain.
 
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Wake

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People err by stating the brain is the mind. The brain is organic matter. The mind is our thoughts, emotions, aspirations, beliefs, prejudices, adjudicator of right and wrong, our personalities, etc. Please, read Psychology, Abnormal Psychology, and Advanced Psychology.
 

Wiseone

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People err by stating the brain is the mind. The brain is organic matter. The mind is our thoughts, emotions, aspirations, beliefs, prejudices, adjudicator of right and wrong, our personalities, etc. Please, read Psychology, Abnormal Psychology, and Advanced Psychology.

So where does the mind exist without the brain? Now again I personally believe the in the separation of mind/soul and body at the point of death and that the two can and do exist separately, but its a matter of faith not science. And pretending that faith is a matter of fact is a delusion of the very meaning of 'faith.'
 

Wake

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We cannot see our mind. Our physiologic brain, yes. But not our mind.

How do you explain this? Mere chemical reactions to stimuli? Fine. Every thought, emotion, and prejudice you apply to your response to this post is mere mechanical reaction.
 

MKULTRABOY

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We cannot see our mind. Our physiologic brain, yes. But not our mind.

How do you explain this? Mere chemical reactions to stimuli? Fine. Every thought, emotion, and prejudice you apply to your response to this post is mere mechanical reaction.

False, this is determinism, and an element of free will is apparent in sentient beings...
 

Wake

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False, this is determinism, and an element of free will is apparent in sentient beings...

Would you mind elaborating, rather than making ambiguous declarative sentences?
 

MKULTRABOY

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Would you mind elaborating, rather than making ambiguous declarative sentences?

If you are not able to conceptualize the fact that you are describing determinism nothing can help you. Except a new book. Philosophy 101 or possibly high school philosophy textbook that would at least inform you of the basic terms and concepts.
 

Wiseone

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We cannot see our mind. Our physiologic brain, yes. But not our mind.

How do you explain this? Mere chemical reactions to stimuli? Fine. Every thought, emotion, and prejudice you apply to your response to this post is mere mechanical reaction.

Yes science has its shortcomings, the full workings of the brain are not totally understood. However just because one solution falls short doesn't mean another is accurate by default.
 

scourge99

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We cannot see our mind.
That's because you can only see things that physically exist. Perhaps your mind is not a physical thing just as color and happiness are not physical.

Our physiologic brain, yes. But not our mind.

How do you explain this?
One explanation is that our mind is an emergent property of the brain.
For example, Ferrari's can drive fast. However, Ferrari parts cannot. Only when you put all the pieces
of a Ferrari together can the Ferrari drive. Similar idea with the brain.

Every piece of evidence available supports the idea that the mind is the product of the brain. When the brain is damaged, altered, or stimulated, the mind can be altered or irreparable changed. We see this evidence in patients who have dramatic brain injuries, illnesses, and drugs.

There is ZERO evidence in support of a mind existing without a brain. There is only opinion, speculation, and holy-book tales.


Mere chemical reactions to stimuli?
Chemical, electrical, physical, nuclear, etc, (that we know of). Not just chemical.

Every thought, emotion, and prejudice you apply to your response to this post is mere mechanical reaction.

Perhaps that is true. Albeit our actions may be the result of very complex reactions which are not limited to mechanical reactions.

Does your disbelief that we are all highly complex automatons make it any less true? Does the universe care what you believe or want? No.
 
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