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Inside the Brutal World of America's Kidnapping Capitol

Catz Part Deux

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Inside the Brutal World of America's Kidnapping Capital - Page 1 - News - New York - Village Voice

Maria was drifting off to sleep on the bedroom floor. She could hear women getting raped in the next room. Only, she didn't hear screams—she heard the laughter of male guards.

The women had been drugged by their rapists, who had done the same to Maria as soon as she walked into the house. They forced her to swallow a red liquid and handed her some white, chalky pills. She drank the liquid and tucked the pills on the side of her mouth, but they were slowly dissolving.

...Maria had arrived at the modest three-bedroom house in west Phoenix several days earlier in the back of a white van. She was one of about a dozen other immigrants who had hired coyotes to smuggle them into the United States: They each paid the human smugglers about $1,800 to guide them safely through the treacherous Arizona desert.

Their guides instead delivered them to other, more vicious coyotes. The kidnappers demanded another $1,700 apiece for Maria and the 12 others, including two young boys.
I understand that this article has its own slant, but the situation in Arizona is appalling.
 
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phattonez

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But those Arizonans are just racist. They're only doing this to keep Mexicans out.

The "racist" bill was meant to deal with a very real crime wave.
 

Catz Part Deux

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As you know, I have zero problems with the Arizona law, though I think that Joe Arpaio is a moron.
 

DrunkenAsparagus

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This is why making it so difficult for poor people to immigrate is a bad idea.
 
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Catz Part Deux

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This is why making it so difficult for poor people to immigrate is a bad idea.
You're so right, Asparagus. We should throw our borders open to any and all who want to come, and make sure we pay for their hospital stays and educate their children, as well.

That will totally solve this problem.

Of course, it will create a hundred million NEW problems, but what the hey?
 

Crunch

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Would it be wrong for me to suggest that he be kidnapped and exported to El Salvador?
My, how soon we forget.

Actually, it's not unlike those hardcore conservatives who pondered the likelihood that Obama would be assassinated during his presidency, almost gleefully.

I consider it a form of encouragement. It normalizes such behavior, and suggests that some lunatic has the right to throw a violent fiery temper tantrum because he got his widdle feewings huwt.

You may not have the balls to detonate the bomb, but inside your heart, you're applauding it.

Using your reasoning, the blacks who built churches in the South were just provoking the KKK to burn them down.

Right?
 

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Yes, but I was joking. :) I get the sense that you actually WANT someone to firebomb that mosque. That's why you keep repeating the phrase.
I was pointing out the possibility, and knowing a bit about how some Americans feel about Muslims, and knowing a bit about human nature, and a bit about figuring odds..... it wouldn't surprise me a bit.

But of course I'm a conservative, and in your mind that makes me evil.... right? So I had to be hoping for it, right?…. In a gleeful manner, right?

Karnack Part Deux fits you. (or are you too young to remember Johnny Carson?)
 

Catz Part Deux

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But of course I'm a conservative, and in your mind that makes me evil.... right? So I had to be hoping for it, right?…. In a gleeful manner, right?
Not at all. It was your repeated mentioning of this as a reason why the mosque shouldn't be built.
 

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Not at all. It was your repeated mentioning of this as a reason why the mosque shouldn't be built.
And for that reason it shouldn't be built, and I'm afraid that is just why it will be.
 

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Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming.
 

Korimyr the Rat

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This is why making it so difficult for poor people to immigrate is a bad idea.
They're not our people and not our problem. This is why sneaking into foreign countries is a bad idea.

If anything, this story is proof that our efforts to restrict immigration are necessary.
 
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DrunkenAsparagus

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You're so right, Asparagus. We should throw our borders open to any and all who want to come, and make sure we pay for their hospital stays and educate their children, as well.

That will totally solve this problem.

Of course, it will create a hundred million NEW problems, but what the hey?
Of course I never actually said that Catz. Nice straw man though. I didn't call for totally open borders, simply fewer bureaucratic and cost related restrictions to immigration.
 

DrunkenAsparagus

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They're not our people and not our problem.
Yet removing most of criminal underworld will save tax dollars and lower violence. Crackdowns on illegals may help somewhat, but a loosening on immigration restrictions is paramount.

This is why sneaking into foreign countries is a bad idea.
Never said it wasn't.

If anything, this story is proof that our efforts to restrict immigration are necessary.
No, it shows the results of our immigration restrictions. These people can afford a coyote, but they probably can't afford the regular process. Uncle Sam giving poor people like them a visa is unlikely. Do they simply shrug and continue living in poverty? No, they sneak in. This has nothing to do with feeling sorry for them, simply understanding the power of incentives,
 

DrunkenAsparagus

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They're making the same fundamental error that you seem to be. The reason we won't give them visas is because we don't want them.
I know that. Whether you or anyone else wants them is irrelevant to them. They want to come, and they will. By making it easier to come in legally, at least they have a chance of rising up instead of being a burden on taxpayers.
 

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Top 10 reasons immigration visas are denied.

1. Unlawfully present after previous immigration violations – 100% denial
2. Drug abuser or addict – 100%
3. Labor certification – 97%
4. Smugglers – 92%
5. Ordered removed upon arrival – 84%
6. Crime involving moral turpitude (CIMT) – 83%
7. Misrepresentation – 79%
8. Unlawfully present 365 days or more (10-year bar) – 46%
9. Application does not comply with provisions of law or regulations – 34.1%
10. Public charge – 24%
Top 10 Reasons Why Immigrants Get Visas Denied « Guru Immigration Law Blog

Works for me..... let's just open up the border for everyone. No Visas, no rules, come one come all.

[/sarcasm]
 

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I know that. Whether you or anyone else wants them is irrelevant to them. They want to come, and they will. By making it easier to come in legally, at least they have a chance of rising up instead of being a burden on taxpayers.
Like they aren't a burden on Tax payers now?.....or we could fine the hell out of the employers of illegal aliens.

Hmmmm...... let me think.
 

Ikari

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Top 10 reasons immigration visas are denied.



Top 10 Reasons Why Immigrants Get Visas Denied « Guru Immigration Law Blog

Works for me..... let's just open up the border for everyone. No Visas, no rules, come one come all.

[/sarcasm]
I don't think open boarders was being promoted as a legitimate solution here. Sure, it's the pipe dream; not functional but would be great if it were. We can't have open boarders for many reasons and we need to regulate in some degree our immigration. Yet at the same accord as it relates to the OP, we shouldn't allow the abject dehumanization of immigrants, legal or illegal, or dismiss the abuse some of them suffer. Not so long ago some really rich couple from the East Coast got caught with essentially slaves. It's a big business. Contacts in other countries tell people of ways to get jobs in America. They bring them over, but don't give them any of their papers or sometimes don't submit them. The people pay these guys money, they bring them over, they get set up with some job. But are told that they can't leave the house and that the owners or these other dudes have their papers and because of it they can't go out without being arrested.

They in essence create a slave class and people are foolish enough to believe it (mostly because rules and authority are well different here than other places, so they just don't know). I doubt that was an isolated incident. Things like sex slaves happen a lot in the UK under very similar circumstances. Yes, we need to control our boarders. And yes, we have a right to control our immigration to allow assimilation time. But we shouldn't forget the humanity of other people just because they may be illegal. Maybe we have to ship them back; but we shouldn't ignore them if they face abuse of this magnitude such as what is outlined in the OP.
 

Crunch

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I don't think open boarders was being promoted as a legitimate solution here. Sure, it's the pipe dream; not functional but would be great if it were. We can't have open boarders for many reasons and we need to regulate in some degree our immigration. Yet at the same accord as it relates to the OP, we shouldn't allow the abject dehumanization of immigrants, legal or illegal, or dismiss the abuse some of them suffer. Not so long ago some really rich couple from the East Coast got caught with essentially slaves. It's a big business. Contacts in other countries tell people of ways to get jobs in America. They bring them over, but don't give them any of their papers or sometimes don't submit them. The people pay these guys money, they bring them over, they get set up with some job. But are told that they can't leave the house and that the owners or these other dudes have their papers and because of it they can't go out without being arrested.

They in essence create a slave class and people are foolish enough to believe it (mostly because rules and authority are well different here than other places, so they just don't know). I doubt that was an isolated incident. Things like sex slaves happen a lot in the UK under very similar circumstances. Yes, we need to control our boarders. And yes, we have a right to control our immigration to allow assimilation time. But we shouldn't forget the humanity of other people just because they may be illegal. Maybe we have to ship them back; but we shouldn't ignore them if they face abuse of this magnitude such as what is outlined in the OP.
Draconian penalties for employing Illegal Aliens would solve all of the problems then wouldn't they?
 

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Draconian anything usually doesn't.
 

Crunch

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Draconian anything usually doesn't.
I think if you fine any business or person that has Illegal Alien employees $10,000 per head and give the owner 1 month in jail per head on a first offence, the problem would solve it's self..... or do you think people would risk those penalties to hire an Illegal?

If you think people would not hire Illegal Aliens with those penalties as law, do you think Illegal Aliens would still come to this country with no work available?
 
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