Individual Liberty

[Unolewaya]

Without individual Liberty, all other rights are nullified.

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[bongsaway]

Without individual Liberty, all other rights are nullified.

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I guess we are all null and void. Our lives are ruled by laws.

 

[ecofarm]

Without individual Liberty, all other rights are nullified.

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Your liberty ends at mine.

 

[Unolewaya]

Your liberty ends at mine.

I agree entirely, but without liberty all of our rights end together.

Liberty is the cornerstone of all rights secured through the Bill of Rights

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[ecofarm]

I agree entirely, but without liberty all of our rights end together.

Liberty is the cornerstone of all rights secured through the Bill of Rights

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The Bill of Rights is the political realization of The Enlightenment. The idea that we, society, make rules and not a tyrant began before our Constitution. Natural rights (life, expression and self defense) (the first and second Amendments) are the basis of The Enlightenment.

For a person to be Enlightened is to understand we make the rules.

 

[Mach]

I agree entirely, but without liberty all of our rights end together. Liberty is the cornerstone of all rights secured through the Bill of Rights

See Ecofarm's above post.

To add to that, Enlightenment was about a rebirth of knowledge, new discoveries we built on top of discoveries from Ancient times (Greek philosophers). It is through their observations of reality, and reasoning, that years later in Europe they refined concepts like liberty, tolerance, constitutions, separation of church and state, representative democracy, etc. They are not gifted by libertarian gods, or heaven forbid Ayn Rand, or the Constitution of the United States. They observed reality, products of logic/reason.

The concept of liberty is a discovery that we are fortunate to have had geeky people before us figure out, document, and experiment with implementing (applied philosophy).

 

[Rich2018]

Without individual Liberty, all other rights are nullified.

If you are free to wander the entire world except for one field...are you truly free ?


Is there anyone on the planet who has liberty ?

 

[Rich2018]

...Liberty is the cornerstone of all rights secured through the Bill of Rights

Liberty to do what ?

 

[MauiMan]

Without individual Liberty, all other rights are nullified.

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I like this view on liberty:

“I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.”
― Thomas Jefferson

 

[Unolewaya]

I like this view on liberty:

“I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.”
― Thomas Jefferson

One of my favorites as well.

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[Unolewaya]

Liberty to do what ?

Liberty isn't just the right to do something, but the right not to be forced to do something as well.

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[Lakryte]

Liberty isn't just the right to do something, but the right not to be forced to do something as well.

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Okay, liberty not to be forced to do what? Individual liberty can mean countless things so your statement is pretty meaningless without hashing it out, in my opinion.

 

[Logician Man]

The right to throw your fist ends where my nose begins.

 

[Unolewaya]

Okay, liberty not to be forced to do what? Individual liberty can mean countless things so your statement is pretty meaningless without hashing it out, in my opinion.

Liberty not to be drawn into nonsensical debates. That is just one example.

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[Unolewaya]

The key point in making this thread was to do a simple check.

Posted in US politics, I wondered how many people would respond here who do not have any idea what individual Liberty means because of the country they live in.

I was not surprised to see the same format of posts made that I have seen by several individuals in other threads.
Troll bots can only perform in the ways they are programed to do.

Watch for patterns and they will appear.

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[Unolewaya]

Okay, liberty not to be forced to do what? Individual liberty can mean countless things so your statement is pretty meaningless without hashing it out, in my opinion.

Ok, let me do it like this.
In the US Constitution, some liberties are enumerated in the Bill of Rights.
However since there are many individual liberties, too many to enumerate, the 9th and 10th amendments include those which are not enumerated.

Individual liberties are those not prohibited by the constitution or any action that would violate the rights of others .

Everyone has the right to freedom of speech for example, but No one has the right to abuse this right by eg. Hate speech, making threats or interfering with the right of others to speak freely as well.

When I joined the military I took an oath to uphold the constitution and to defend it from all enemies both foreign and domestic.

To me this means that I have to defend the rights of others as adamantly as I do my own.

If I allow the rights of others to be lost, then I too will lose that right.




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[Thoreau72]

Without individual Liberty, all other rights are nullified.

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Too true.

As we have seen in this country, equally true is that liberty dies to thunderous applause.

 

[haymarket]

Liberty to do what ?

Good question.

Far too often when somebody on the right starts beating the LIBERTY drum, the freedoms they want are the right to be a bigot, the right to discriminate, the right to exploit others, the right to not pay taxes, and any right they want to claim in the pursuit of their own personal selfish interests and damn everybody else who might get in the way.

So you ask a good question that I hope gets answered with specifics.

 

[Lakryte]

Liberty not to be drawn into nonsensical debates. That is just one example.

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So defining liberty is nonsensical? How can you defend liberty without defining it?

 

[ecofarm]

Ok, let me do it like this.
In the US Constitution, some liberties are enumerated in the Bill of Rights.
However since there are many individual liberties, too many to enumerate, the 9th and 10th amendments include those which are not enumerated.

The founders were so concerned that the Bill of Rights might be construed as an exhaustive list and thereby employed to truncate our rights, they debated its inclusion.

 

[Rich2018]

Liberty isn't just the right to do something, but the right not to be forced to do something as well.

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Semantics

If I force you to do something you don't want to do, you've lost the liberty to do the thing you would rather be doing.

Same difference.

 

[Rich2018]

Good question.

Far too often when somebody on the right starts beating the LIBERTY drum, the freedoms they want are the right to be a bigot, the right to discriminate, the right to exploit others, the right to not pay taxes, and any right they want to claim in the pursuit of their own personal selfish interests and damn everybody else who might get in the way.

So you ask a good question that I hope gets answered with specifics.

There's a famous quote that sums this up:

"When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression"



If and when the Democratic party wins the next election and imposes a high end tax rate of 75% (or more), the millionaires and billionaires will be squealing like stuck pigs....

 

[haymarket]

There's a famous quote that sums this up:

"When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression"



If and when the Democratic party wins the next election and imposes a high end tax rate of 75% (or more), the millionaires and billionaires will be squealing like stuck pigs....

That is excellent. Thank you for posting it.

 

[Fearandloathing]

Without individual Liberty, all other rights are nullified.

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I think you're going to have to define 'liberty" in the modern context as well as who is worthy of it.

Are the asylum seekers along the US-Mexico border "free"? Are they "liberated"?

Are the "undocumented" people working at Trump's golf estates "liberated?" Are they "free" now that they have been fired? Were they before?

Are the people who believed Trump would restore coal mining jobs "free"?

I have found throughout my time on this earth that Americans love to pound their chests and talk about liberty in glowing, ethereal terms, and then read the US has the highest incarceration rate in the industrial world. The US leads the world in 'death by cop', are those teens "liberated"? And how about the children slain in their classroom? Are they "free"

And finally, what about the thousands of women who have been sexually assaulted by bosses colleagues etc., are they "free"?

 

[Unolewaya]

The founders were so concerned that the Bill of Rights might be construed as an exhaustive list and thereby employed to truncate our rights, they debated its inclusion.

It was also believed by some that rights were so common sense that a bill of right was not needed. Personally, I am very glad it was.

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