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Indian Yogi goes decades without food or water

First Thought

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An 83-year-old Indian holy man who says he has spent seven decades without food or water has astounded a team of military doctors who studied him during a two-week observation period.

Prahlad Jani spent a fortnight in a hospital in the western India state of Gujarat under constant surveillance from a team of 30 medics equipped with cameras and closed circuit television.

During the period, he neither ate nor drank and did not go to the toilet.
'Starving yogi' astounds Indian scientists

Very interesting. This reminds me of Milarepa.
 

Johnny

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I call shenanigans on this.
 

rathi

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I doubt he even survived 14 days without any water. This is exactly why peer review was invented.
 

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It's complete nonsense, he won't allow anyone to actually follow him around for a couple of days to verify his claims. He's eating and drinking just fine, then lying through his teeth.
 

ashurbanipal

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Where did you read that he won't allow anyone to actually follow him around? Based on the article, he was under full time surveillance for 15 days. Do you have a quote or something where he says "hey, no one can follow me around"? What evidence do you have that he is eating and drinking, and then lying through his teeth?
 

First Thought

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I doubt he even survived 14 days without any water. This is exactly why peer review was invented.
This is the second time he has performed such a feat under surveillance.
 

rathi

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"(Jani's) only contact with any kind of fluid was during gargling and bathing periodically during the period," G. Ilavazahagan, director of India's Defence Institute of Physiology and Allied Sciences (DIPAS), said in a statement.
Most likely explanation is that his "gargling" actually involves drinking. Bathing is bad enough , but letting him put water in his mouth ruins any credibility of the experiment. From a pure science perspective, he should be stripped naked, cavity searched and locked in a sterile cell for 2 weeks. Ethical requirements make that impossible, but letting him anywhere near fluids is unacceptable. The hardest part would be monitoring his vitals, as the chance of death would be great.
 

RightinNYC

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Where did you read that he won't allow anyone to actually follow him around? Based on the article, he was under full time surveillance for 15 days. Do you have a quote or something where he says "hey, no one can follow me around"? What evidence do you have that he is eating and drinking, and then lying through his teeth?
This is the second time he has performed such a feat under surveillance.

The case has attracted criticism, both after 2003 tests and after the recent 2010 tests. Sanal Edamaruku, president of the Indian Rationalist Association, criticized the 2010 experiment for allowing Jani to move out of a certain CCTV camera's field of view, meet devotees and leave the sealed test room to sunbathe. Edamaruku felt that the regular gargling and bathing activities were not sufficiently monitored,[44] and accuses Jani of having had some "influential protectors" who denied Edamaruku permission to inspect the project during its operation
Which seems more likely - this guy is a huckster, or everything we know about the human body and science is a lie?
 

First Thought

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Which seems more likely - this guy is a huckster
That would certainly be the Western World and science's viewpoint. At the same time, similar stories have been known in the east for millenia(all the way back to 1800 BCE with the Indo-Aryan Vedic mythology). I guess mankind just has an overactive imagination and Carl Jung was delusional. ;)

or everything we know about the human body and science is a lie?
No, just that science still has a bit to discover.
 

ashurbanipal

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RightinNYC said:
Which seems more likely - this guy is a huckster, or everything we know about the human body and science is a lie?
Obviously the former, but this is a false dilema. There's nothing in the science of biology which says that the applicable processes and theories are both absolute and complete. There's nothing that says a cell must receive energy via the currently known mechanisms and no others.
 

First Thought

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He was allowed to bathe, this has not undergone peer review, and people can survive for longer without food if they have access to water. Thomas McElwee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
What is more likely? That the laws of physics have been suspended, or that some people have been duped by a conman?
An eminent teacher once said, "The truth you believe and cling to makes you unavailable to hear anything new."
 

rathi

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Obviously the former, but this is a false dilema. There's nothing in the science of biology which says that the applicable processes and theories are both absolute and complete. There's nothing that says a cell must receive energy via the currently known mechanisms and no others.
There are two possible options in this case a) The entire discipline of biology is flawed about the effects of water in the human body 2) The man drank some water while it was in his mouth. Which one do you think is the more likely possibility?
 

First Thought

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There are two possible options in this case a) The entire discipline of biology is flawed about the effects of water in the human body
Science has yet to understand the techniques of yoga and meditation completely.

2) The man drank some water while it was in his mouth. Which one do you think is the more likely possibility?
No one is debating about which scenario is more likely.
 
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Dittohead not!

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Oh, ye doubters! Ye of little faith! Here is indisputable proof of the Yogi, after decades with no food or water:










There. Proof that anything is possible.
 

Dittohead not!

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Deleted. It posted twice for some unknown reason.
 
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RightinNYC

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That would certainly be the Western World and science's viewpoint. At the same time, similar stories have been known in the east for millenia(all the way back to 1800 BCE with the Indo-Aryan Vedic mythology). I guess mankind just has an overactive imagination and Carl Jung was delusional. ;)
And everything in every holy book happened thousands of years ago, so it must be true!

No, just that science still has a bit to discover.
This is conspiracy theory garbage.

Obviously the former, but this is a false dilema. There's nothing in the science of biology which says that the applicable processes and theories are both absolute and complete. There's nothing that says a cell must receive energy via the currently known mechanisms and no others.
Okay! Let me know how that works out for you.
 

First Thought

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And everything in every holy book happened thousands of years ago, so it must be true!
That's not what I said. I referred to Jung and his illuminating work on the collective human unconscious and varying archetypes, archetypes that happen to show up in mythology and mystical experiences around the globe for millenia. Do you think people have just been making up nonsense throughout the course of human history?

This is conspiracy theory garbage.
Science advances our understanding on a regular basis. We learn new things through studies done by qualified professionals. I could cite Darwin and his theory of evolution, which changed what we knew about biology and life radically. I could also cite the discovery of the double helix DNA model, Quantum Mechanics, Multiverse Theory, and Holographic Universe Theory as relatively recent advances in illumination. Yet the concept of science not all having all of the answers, but rather being a method to progress us towards understanding, is "conspiracy theory garbage" to you. Very interesting.
 
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rathi

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That's not what I said. I referred to Jung and his illuminating work on the collective human unconscious and varying archetypes, archetypes that happen to show up in mythology and mystical experiences around the globe for millenia. Do you think people have just been making up nonsense throughout the course of human history?
Jungian archetypes show that people have been making up similar nonsense throughout the course of human history. Cross-cultural nonsense is still nonsense. Mysticism isn't always wrong, but is worthless without objective evidence.

Science advances our understanding on a regular basis. We learn new things through studies done by qualified professionals. I could cite Darwin and his theory of evolution, which changed what we knew about biology and life radically. I could also cite the discovery of the double helix DNA model, Quantum Mechanics, Multiverse Theory, and Holographic Universe Theory as relatively recent advances in illumination. Yet the concept of science not all having all of the answers, but rather being a method to progress us towards understanding, is "conspiracy theory garbage" to you. Very interesting.
This Yogi study is not a scientific process. It fails peer review, precisely because peer review is the best method to catching this sort of scam. Under my considerably more controlled experimental conditions, I doubt the results would be the same.
 

First Thought

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Jungian archetypes show that people have been making up similar nonsense throughout the course of human history. Cross-cultural nonsense is still nonsense. Mysticism isn't always wrong, but is worthless without objective evidence.
Mysticism may be viewed as "worthless" to an outside spectator, but it involves direct experience with the ineffable. By definition, ineffable experiences cannot be shared via languaging, and are therefore radically subjective. How are you to judge mysticism's worth without ever having subjective experience of it's nature?

This Yogi study is not a scientific process. It fails peer review, precisely because peer review is the best method to catching this sort of scam. Under my considerably more controlled experimental conditions, I doubt the results would be the same.
What does this have to do with the text you quoted? I was explaining the nature of science to another poster. I was not discussing how scientific this specific study was.
 

rathi

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Mysticism may be viewed as "worthless" to an outside spectator, but it involves direct experience with the ineffable. By definition, ineffable experiences cannot be shared via languaging, and are therefore radically subjective. How are you to judge mysticism's worth without ever having subjective experience of it's nature?
My choice of words was poor. Mysticism does have little value in discovering the properties of the world we live in, and mythology should not be confused with reality. On the other hand, mysticism does have value in other contexts. Mystics were the first to ask how and why, and it is that same drive that eventually led to science.

What does this have to do with the text you quoted? I was explaining the nature of science to another poster. I was not discussing how scientific this specific study was.
You were implying that he was incorrect in his conspiracy theory garbage claim. While perhaps harshly worded, he is correct from a scientific perspective. The experiment make extreme claims that would overturn vast bodies of scientific knowledge, yet overs only a hideously flawed experiment as evidence. Even the "can absorb sunlight for energy" hypothesis doesn't explain the lack of need for water.
 

First Thought

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My choice of words was poor. Mysticism does have little value in discovering the properties of the world we live in, and mythology should not be confused with reality.
Mysticism can shed a different light on the world we live in(linear/physical) by facilitating experiental understanding of the nonlinear/nonphysical domain. The mystic and sage are the true ontologists.

On the other hand, mysticism does have value in other contexts. Mystics were the first to ask how and why, and it is that same drive that eventually led to science.
Indeed.

You were implying that he was incorrect in his conspiracy theory garbage claim.
He quoted a sentence that was discussing science having more to grasp and comprehend. Then he said "this is is conspiracy theory garbage." He may have well been talking about the study, but it is safe to assume that "this" referred to the quoted text he was responding to.

While perhaps harshly worded, he is correct from a scientific perspective. The experiment make extreme claims that would overturn vast bodies of scientific knowledge, yet overs only a hideously flawed experiment as evidence. Even the "can absorb sunlight for energy" hypothesis doesn't explain the lack of need for water.
Perceived "facts" change in light of discovery. While it it is an established understanding that humans need water to live, who is to say that anomalies are out of the question?
 
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