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India has a 'caste system'

junno

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Mates,

We gave civil rights for all in the last century, equal opportunity is our basis for life. We worked to end aparthied in South Africa. We commit to a democratic China and reforms in the Islamic world and a secure Israel. We freed Europe from Nazism and Facism.

Happen to google on something and found this interesting article by a person who calls himself a 'Dalit' meaning untouchable.

http://www.ambedkar.org/News/Cssacndzsm.htm

Shocked to see that India has a 'caste system' meaning about half its population is 'untouchable' and brutalized, ignored and left to suffer in the hands of an elite caste. Can you imagine this in the 21st century? And we are loosing our jobs to this country which practices a 'caste system'?
 

mixedmedia

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Yeah, it's only a few millenia old. Where you been? And in all actuality India is rapidly moving away from the caste system. The recent increase in opportunity in India is quickly making the caste system a thing of the past. So in an unintended way, we can take a little credit for that.
 

junno

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mixedmedia said:
Yeah, it's only a few millenia old. Where you been? And in all actuality India is rapidly moving away from the caste system. The recent increase in opportunity in India is quickly making the caste system a thing of the past. So in an unintended way, we can take a little credit for that.
Interestingly, the author says that our dollars are going to the elite class and no change in the suffering of the 'Dalits'. I am sick of just reading half the article. I'll try to stomach all.
 

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junno said:
Interestingly, the author says that our dollars are going to the elite class and no change in the suffering of the 'Dalits'. I am sick of just reading half the article. I'll try to stomach all.
Well, that is simply not true. The caste system is literally thousands of years old. Change is not going to happen overnight. But it is changing.
 

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mixedmedia said:
Yeah, it's only a few millenia old. Where you been? And in all actuality India is rapidly moving away from the caste system. The recent increase in opportunity in India is quickly making the caste system a thing of the past. So in an unintended way, we can take a little credit for that.
I dunno about that. I have two friends who had to move here a year ago so they could get married. He's from a lower caste.
 

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From the article:

... ever since the evil white aryans stepped into our mother land India and made Caste India as the most violent country in the world.
Hmm. Myself, a mongrel, not pure aryan, does that make me less or more responsible for the situation in India?

The 300 plus million Dalits have essentially turned out to be permanent, obedient, free and willing slaves of the barbarous hindus, enslavement of not only the body but much more dangerous and permanent mind or mental slavery; all because of the obnoxious teachings of the hindu Satanic Cult,...
Mindless demagogy. If anything, this article completely alienates the reader into ignoring the matter altogether.

hindu Satanic Cult. Ha. That 'cult' predates the word Aryan.

Mr U
 

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Kelzie said:
I dunno about that. I have two friends who had to move here a year ago so they could get married. He's from a lower caste.
Well, India is a big country. Perhaps some parts are moving along at a faster pace than others. I only know what I have read about India in Tom Friedman's columns and his book The World Is Flat in which he specifically addresses the fact that young people are getting opportunities now that their parents never could have even considered. It will take a long time for the system to work itself out. But it is working itself out. It's only natural considering current events in India these days. Education is starting to replace the caste system as the determinate factor of opportunity - as it should be. I'm not saying its perfect.
 

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mixedmedia said:
Well, India is a big country. Perhaps some parts are moving along at a faster pace than others. I only know what I have read about India in Tom Friedman's columns and his book The World Is Flat in which he specifically addresses the fact that young people are getting opportunities now that their parents never could have even considered. It will take a long time for the system to work itself out. But it is working itself out. It's only natural considering current events in India these days. Education is starting to replace the caste system as the determinate factor of opportunity - as it should be. I'm not saying its perfect.
Man I gotta read his books. People reference them all the time. Have you read Lexus and the Olive Tree?
 

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Kelzie said:
Man I gotta read his books. People reference them all the time. Have you read Lexus and the Olive Tree?

Yes I have! It is an excellent book! From Beirut to Jerusalem is very good as well. You've probably seen me reference them before. I'm recommending him all the time. Unfortunately I can't read his columns anymore because you have to pay now. Arrgghhhh.....
 

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mixedmedia said:
Yes I have! It is an excellent book! From Beirut to Jerusalem is very good as well. You've probably seen me reference them before. I'm recommending him all the time. Unfortunately I can't read his columns anymore because you have to pay now. Arrgghhhh.....
Damn capitalist pig. :mrgreen:
 

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Kelzie said:
Damn capitalist pig. :mrgreen:

Well, it's not him. It's the damn NY Times. So much for us poor bleeding heart liberals, eh? Me, I mean. :mrgreen:
 

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mixedmedia said:
Well, it's not him. It's the damn NY Times. So much for us poor bleeding heart liberals, eh? Me, I mean. :mrgreen:
Tell me about it. I've been reduced to asking for a subscription to the Economist for Christmas (I'm trying to broaden my socialist horizons...).
 

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Kelzie said:
Tell me about it. I've been reduced to asking for a subscription to the Economist for Christmas (I'm trying to broaden my socialist horizons...).

I LOVE The Economist, but you're right. It is soooo expensive. I pick up a copy from the bookstore whenever I can though. It's like information manna.
 

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And I just found out that the burning alive of few folks from lower caste happened as recent as last year.

I'm shocked I had no clue about this organized system although these folks from India work in my company and hey, we listen to them all the time on customer support! All I knew before was that these are like good techies.

I am just sick of reading through this stuff, it makes me google more and there is so much stuff on the internet about these people living a life none better than the African natives in aparthied days. Interestingly, their founder Gandhi lived and fought against the aparthied in Africa and he belonged in the higher class of this caste system.

What are we doing about it? Nothing I guess. I'm sick of just thinking about it living all my life to learn acceptance and there somewhere in the world miles apart, we are pouring dollars and could not ask for a change?

Neither 'W' nor Bill told me anything about it?
 

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junno said:
And I just found out that the burning alive of few folks from lower caste happened as recent as last year.

I'm shocked I had no clue about this organized system although these folks from India work in my company and hey, we listen to them all the time on customer support! All I knew before was that these are like good techies.

I am just sick of reading through this stuff, it makes me google more and there is so much stuff on the internet about these people living a life none better than the African natives in aparthied days. Interestingly, their founder Gandhi lived and fought against the aparthied in Africa and he belonged in the higher class of this caste system.

What are we doing about it? Nothing I guess. I'm sick of just thinking about it living all my life to learn acceptance and there somewhere in the world miles apart, we are pouring dollars and could not ask for a change?

Neither 'W' nor Bill told me anything about it?
It's not up to W or Bill to tell you about it. Pick up a book. Nobody's going to give you a guided tour of how ****ed-up the world is. But beware, once you start out on the journey. There's no going back. It's funny, but my mom and I were just saying this same thing earlier. The secret to blissful happiness? Don't open the box.
 

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And Gandhi was VERY outspoken about the injustice of the caste system.
 

junno

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mixedmedia said:
It's not up to W or Bill to tell you about it. Pick up a book. Nobody's going to give you a guided tour of how ****ed-up the world is. But beware, once you start out on the journey. There's no going back. It's funny, but my mom and I were just saying this same thing earlier. The secret to blissful happiness? Don't open the box.
But how can I work with someone who can not bring a change in his/her country and apparently there is a whole lot of obscure stuff going on in this country that we are selling everything from our jobs to our technology - aren't we suppose to work with like-minded people?
 

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junno said:
But how can I work with someone who can not bring a change in his/her country and apparently there is a whole lot of obscure stuff going on in this country that we are selling everything from our jobs to our technology - aren't we suppose to work with like-minded people?
Ummmm, I'm not sure I want to be the one informing you of this, but MOST of the world is not "like-minded people." India is a very old country. Most Americans can't even conceive of being part of a community that is literally thousands of years old. They are doing what they can to bring their country into the 21st century, but the change is simply not going to happen overnight and we have to trust that their intentions are good. They have no reason economically to try and maintain the old caste system. I recommend you read the book I mentioned earlier, The World Is Flat. Instead of questionable websites on the internet that are purporting Hinduism to be a Satanic cult.
 

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Well, it's not him. It's the damn NY Times. So much for us poor bleeding heart liberals, eh? Me, I mean.
At the risk of being off-topic, and making a potentially illegal post, you might want to check out Bugmenot.com .

They do not appreciate compulsory web registration.

Instead of questionable websites on the internet that are purporting Hinduism to be a Satanic cult.
How is this possible? The religion is estimated to be between 3000 and 5000 years old. It by far predates the notion of satanism.

Mr U
 

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mixedmedia said:
Ummmm, I'm not sure I want to be the one informing you of this, but MOST of the world is not "like-minded people." India is a very old country. Most Americans can't even conceive of being part of a community that is literally thousands of years old. They are doing what they can to bring their country into the 21st century, but the change is simply not going to happen overnight and we have to trust that their intentions are good. They have no reason economically to try and maintain the old caste system. I recommend you read the book I mentioned earlier, The World Is Flat. Instead of questionable websites on the internet that are purporting Hinduism to be a Satanic cult.
I don't agree. A cult is being followed by a population towards a population which happens to be as large as the United States! What are we doing about it?

We are pouring our dollars into this country, I don't care if its 3000 year old or 5000, the world is 6 billion years old. We are losing are jobs for cheap labor. I mean we are at lost here if we can't even show awareness for the 'Dalits'. I don't hear W or Condi influencing Indians on getting their act right.

Apparently, we are just ignorant fools, as the author of the article says. I'm in with some serious discussion with an Indian I know who works in my comp.
 

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junno said:
I don't agree. A cult is being followed by a population towards a population which happens to be as large as the United States! What are we doing about it?
Let me guess, every religion besides Christianity is a cult?
 

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junno said:
I don't agree. A cult is being followed by a population towards a population which happens to be as large as the United States! What are we doing about it?

We are pouring our dollars into this country, I don't care if its 3000 year old or 5000, the world is 6 billion years old. We are losing are jobs for cheap labor. I mean we are at lost here if we can't even show awareness for the 'Dalits'. I don't hear W or Condi influencing Indians on getting their act right.

Apparently, we are just ignorant fools, as the author of the article says. I'm in with some serious discussion with an Indian I know who works in my comp.
I don't know how to talk to you about this if you're going to base all of your assumptions about India on a website that is posting lies and inflammatory rhetoric about a culture that has its historical flaws, but is basically good and trying to get better. The Indians are getting their act together and they are doing very well considering the tremendous obstacles they have had/are having to overcome. I suspect that website has an agenda. And I suspect I know what that agenda is. And I don't have anything meaningful or constructive to say about it. I suggest you go to the library and read. Read some of the writings of Gandhi. Read about the 5,000 year old (at the very least - they really don't know how old it is) tradition of ayurvedic medicine - the oldest known healthcare system in the world. Read about the tradition of yoga. Read about Hinduism, the oldest known religion on earth - the Vedas and the spiritual tenets of that religion. Read about the Buddha who was born in India, reached enlightenment sitting under a bodhi tree in India and brought about the religion of Buddhism in India. If you're into such things, read the Kama Sutra. Read something other than a slanderous website that is trying to encapsulate an ancient and vibrant society within the status of a cult. Nothing personal, but it makes you seem uninformed and not prepared to debate on the subject.

And if this is really all about the jobs we are losing to India, then I say boo-hoo. Is your concern that you want to help the people of India move past the caste system, or just complain about their "foreign" ways?
 

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mixedmedia said:
I don't know how to talk to you about this if you're going to base all of your assumptions about India on a website that is posting lies and inflammatory rhetoric about a culture that has its historical flaws, but is basically good and trying to get better. The Indians are getting their act together and they are doing very well considering the tremendous obstacles they have had/are having to overcome. I suspect that website has an agenda. And I suspect I know what that agenda is. And I don't have anything meaningful or constructive to say about it. I suggest you go to the library and read. Read some of the writings of Gandhi. Read about the 5,000 year old (at the very least - they really don't know how old it is) tradition of ayurvedic medicine - the oldest known healthcare system in the world. Read about the tradition of yoga. Read about Hinduism, the oldest known religion on earth - the Vedas and the spiritual tenets of that religion. Read about the Buddha who was born in India, reached enlightenment sitting under a bodhi tree in India and brought about the religion of Buddhism in India. If you're into such things, read the Kama Sutra. Read something other than a slanderous website that is trying to encapsulate an ancient and vibrant society within the status of a cult. Nothing personal, but it makes you seem uninformed and not prepared to debate on the subject.

And if this is really all about the jobs we are losing to India, then I say boo-hoo. Is your concern that you want to help the people of India move past the caste system, or just complain about their "foreign" ways?

good post. also, India's government has already moved past the caste system. It is formally abolished and they have enacted certain laws including affirmative action to diminish the discrimination. Socially, this system is seen as backwards in modernizing areas, and the younger generations find the whole system absurd. The only places you find this social system rampant is in the poverty stricken areas of india. The problem, ohwever, is the poverty, not the caste system. Get rid of the poverty, you get rid of this social discrimination.
 

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vergiss said:
Let me guess, every religion besides Christianity is a cult?
I don't know if this is part of a religion or is it just culture - I just know and it is a fact that 'Dalits' are prosecuted and this act of discrimination is a cult in my view. I post the same thread in another section - because I later doubted if this belongs to religion or not. If it does, then I won't go into the debate further as I am not in that business!
 

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mixedmedia said:
I don't know how to talk to you about this if you're going to base all of your assumptions about India on a website that is posting lies and inflammatory rhetoric about a culture that has its historical flaws, but is basically good and trying to get better. The Indians are getting their act together and they are doing very well considering the tremendous obstacles they have had/are having to overcome. I suspect that website has an agenda. And I suspect I know what that agenda is. And I don't have anything meaningful or constructive to say about it. I suggest you go to the library and read. Read some of the writings of Gandhi. Read about the 5,000 year old (at the very least - they really don't know how old it is) tradition of ayurvedic medicine - the oldest known healthcare system in the world. Read about the tradition of yoga. Read about Hinduism, the oldest known religion on earth - the Vedas and the spiritual tenets of that religion. Read about the Buddha who was born in India, reached enlightenment sitting under a bodhi tree in India and brought about the religion of Buddhism in India. If you're into such things, read the Kama Sutra. Read something other than a slanderous website that is trying to encapsulate an ancient and vibrant society within the status of a cult. Nothing personal, but it makes you seem uninformed and not prepared to debate on the subject.

And if this is really all about the jobs we are losing to India, then I say boo-hoo. Is your concern that you want to help the people of India move past the caste system, or just complain about their "foreign" ways?
http://www.dalits.org/

Excuse me, please check the site about. These sites are not 'flaming' sites. They are credible sites. They are concerned at something which should be ended immediately in culture and not just in cosmetic laws. What has religion to do with it? I did not even know that it has to do something with Hinduism before you lead me to it. It can be due to any religion of the world or India may have the first born male/female in mankind history!, what is your point? Ignore everything because it is 5000 years old?

My point is - it is against American values. Discrimination based on color is against the core of our values. In the 21st century, I am shocked it exists it such an organized way. Okay, an event here and there - we have that in the US too, but a 'caste' and 'class' system is unheard of.
 
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