Incitement of Insurrection - Context Matters

[Binary_Digit]

Intro/Prologue

This thread is not about Kathy Lee Gifford, Madonna, or any of the other anti-Trump idiots who stood on very thin ice and are damn lucky there were no correlated attempts on Trump's life. This thread is also not about opportunistic dirt bags assaulting innocent people, destroying private businesses, or attempting to trap agents inside burning buildings under the delusion of justice for George Floyd. This thread is about former President Donald J. Trump and his series of objectively irresponsible words which directly led to the Capitol attack on 1/6/21.

I'm aware of the handful of times when Trump denounced violence and white supremacy, and that he called for peace both before and during the Capitol attack. But the irresponsible things Trump said from the other side of his mouth predictably ensured that his denouncements and calls for peace were only seen by alt-right militants as necessary BS for political optics and plausible deniability, but not truly meant from the heart. My position is that Trump had ample reasons to know full well that violence at the rally was a distinct possibility, and that his speech carelessly disregarded that possibility while actually serving to increase the likelihood of violence.

The Case

1.) In May, 2020, ABC News found 54 cases of violence or threats of violence in which the suspect invoked Trump's name in direct connection to the crime. At the same time, ABC News was unable to find a single case of violence or threat of violence, filed in either state or federal court, that was committed in the name of Barack Obama or George W. Bush.

'No Blame?' ABC News finds 54 cases invoking 'Trump' in connection with violence, threats, alleged assaults.

President Donald Trump insists he deserves no blame for divisions in America.

abcnews.go.com

At this point, a responsible person of sound moral character and integrity would recognize and acknowledge that great care should be taken going forward so as to not further mislead potentially violent people into attempting or committing further acts of violence in their name. But alas, great care was not taken.

2.) On April 17, 2020, Donald J. Trump tweeted: "LIBERATE MICHIGAN!; LIBERATE MINNESOTA!; LIBERATE VIRGINIA, and save your great 2nd Amendment. It's under siege!"

Only six months later, the Wolverine Watchmen were arrested for plotting to kidnap Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer. The FBI said that the group had also discussed kidnapping Virginia governor Ralph Northam.

Wolverine Watchmen members plot to kidnap Gov. Gretchen Whitmer: Here's what we know

More than a dozen people tied to the Wolverine Watchmen militia group are accused of ties to a plot to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer.

www.freep.com

Whitmer kidnapping plot suspects also discussed abducting Virginia governor: FBI agent

Members of anti-government paramilitary groups allegedly discussed kidnapping Virginia’s governor during a June meeting in Ohio, an FBI agent testified Tuesday during a court hearing in Michigan.

www.foxnews.com

At this point, a responsible person of sound moral character and integrity would recognize and acknowledge that great care should be taken going forward so as to not further mislead potentially violent people into attempting or committing further acts of violence in their name. But alas, great care was not taken.

3.) On Sep 30, 2020, Trump was asked on national television to condemn white supremacists and militant groups and to say that they need to stand down. Instead, he told the Proud Boys to stand by. That evening, the Proud Boys were "ecstatic" on Parler about the Presidential order they'd just been given. Proud Boys leader Enrique Tarrio, posted: "Standing by sir". High-ranking Proud Boys member Joe Biggs posted, "President Trump told the proud boys to stand by because someone needs to deal with ANTIFA...well sir! we're ready!!"

'Standing by sir': Proud Boys praise Trump's comment telling them to 'stand by' during first presidential debate

At this point, a responsible person of sound moral character and integrity would recognize and acknowledge that great care should be taken going forward so as to not further mislead potentially violent people into attempting or committing further acts of violence in their name. But alas, great care was not taken.

4.) [Now insert hundreds of claims that the most sacred and essential institution of any democracy - free and fair elections - had just been "rigged" on a widespread scale by sinister background forces and therefore "stolen" from The People of the United States. These claims failed the most basic tests of evidentiary standards across dozens of courts - some of which were presided over by Trump's own appointed judges - yet somehow were believed by Trump to warrant enough trustworthiness and credibility to be endorsed as truthful and factual from the seat of the Office of the President of the United States.]

(Continued...)

 

[Binary_Digit]

5.) On Dec 18, 2020, Trump tweeted: "Big protest in D.C. on January 6th. Be there, will be wild!" Three permits were issued for protests on 1/6/21 (Rally to Revival, The Silent Majority, and March for Trump/Save America), but none gave permission to march to the Capitol building.

Here’s What We Know About the Pro-Trump Rallies That Have Permits - Washingtonian

Thousands of people will visit Washington, DC, Tuesday and Wednesday to demonstrate their support for President Trump, who lost the November election to Joe Biden but continues to pretend he did not. Authorities expect Trump fans to occupy large swathes of downtown DC both days and have closed...

www.washingtonian.com

A senior FBI official told NBC News that before the rally, the agency learned "credible and actionable information about individuals who were planning on traveling to the protests who expressed a desire to engage in violence."

Report: Before riot, NYPD, FBI warned Capitol Police about possibility of violence

Prior to Wednesday's riot at the U.S. Capitol, the FBI and New York Police Department notified Capitol Police about the possibility of violence, senior law enforcement officials told NBC News.On Wednesday, President Trump spoke at a rally held to coincide with the tallying of electoral votes. He...

news.yahoo.com

At this point, a responsible person of sound moral character and integrity would recognize and acknowledge that great care should be taken going forward so as to not further mislead potentially violent people into attempting or committing further acts of violence in their name. But alas, great care was not taken.

6.) At the protests on 1/6/21, Trump said to the Save America crowd: "I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard." But that's the only mention of remaining peaceful in the entire speech. Meanwhile, he made the following statements (in order of appearance):

We will never give up. We will never concede, it doesn’t happen. You don’t concede when there’s theft involved.
Our country has had enough. We will not take it anymore and that’s what this is all about...we will stop the steal.
We will not let them silence your voices. We’re not going to let it happen. Not going to let it happen.
We’re gathered together in the heart of our nation’s Capitol for one very, very basic and simple reason, to save our democracy.
You’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong.
You will have an illegitimate president, that’s what you’ll have. And we can’t let that happen.
The radical left knows exactly what they’re doing. They’re ruthless and it’s time that somebody did something about it.
Together we will drain the Washington swamp and we will clean up the corruption in our nation’s capital. We have done a big job on it, but you think it’s easy, it’s a dirty business. It’s a dirty business. You have a lot of bad people out there.
Together we are determined to defend and preserve government of the people, by the people and for the people.
And we fight. We fight like Hell and if you don’t fight like Hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore.
We’re going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country.

Conclusion

Whether through negligent carelessness or conscious intent, Donald J. Trump is responsible for the violence at the Capitol building on 1/6/21. He showed a wanton disregard for the clear and present danger that had evidenced itself multiple times over the days and months leading up to the rally. He sent what he reasonably should have known was a potentially violent crowd down Pennsylvania Avenue to a Capitol building that was full of U.S. Congress members who were in the middle of performing their solemn duty to certify the Electoral College votes for President. That is criminal negligence at best, and treason against the United States at worst.

 

[Excast]

There are many who wouldn't accept Trump's responsibility in the events of January 6th even if he had said "I want you all to march into the Capitol, murder cops, and hang Mike Pence."

Do you remember the whole argument about how we should take him seriously, but not literally? All of his various handlers and spin masters who constantly needed to twist his lies and hate into something more palatable? And that he would always contradict them almost immediately and let it be known he meant exactly what he had said?

January 6th was the culmination of years of effort by Trump, Congressional Republicans, and their allies in the media to undermine the faith of conservatives in our public institutions. And now, as usual, they want to play dumb when the consequences of their actions are finally made clear.

 

[Ethel2]

5.) On Dec 18, 2020, Trump tweeted: "Big protest in D.C. on January 6th. Be there, will be wild!" Three permits were issued for protests on 1/6/21 (Rally to Revival, The Silent Majority, and March for Trump/Save America), but none gave permission to march to the Capitol building.

Here’s What We Know About the Pro-Trump Rallies That Have Permits - Washingtonian

Thousands of people will visit Washington, DC, Tuesday and Wednesday to demonstrate their support for President Trump, who lost the November election to Joe Biden but continues to pretend he did not. Authorities expect Trump fans to occupy large swathes of downtown DC both days and have closed...

www.washingtonian.com

A senior FBI official told NBC News that before the rally, the agency learned "credible and actionable information about individuals who were planning on traveling to the protests who expressed a desire to engage in violence."

Report: Before riot, NYPD, FBI warned Capitol Police about possibility of violence

Prior to Wednesday's riot at the U.S. Capitol, the FBI and New York Police Department notified Capitol Police about the possibility of violence, senior law enforcement officials told NBC News.On Wednesday, President Trump spoke at a rally held to coincide with the tallying of electoral votes. He...

news.yahoo.com

At this point, a responsible person of sound moral character and integrity would recognize and acknowledge that great care should be taken going forward so as to not further mislead potentially violent people into attempting or committing further acts of violence in their name. But alas, great care was not taken.

6.) At the protests on 1/6/21, Trump said to the Save America crowd: "I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard." But that's the only mention of remaining peaceful in the entire speech. Meanwhile, he made the following statements (in order of appearance):

We will never give up. We will never concede, it doesn’t happen. You don’t concede when there’s theft involved.
Our country has had enough. We will not take it anymore and that’s what this is all about...we will stop the steal.
We will not let them silence your voices. We’re not going to let it happen. Not going to let it happen.
We’re gathered together in the heart of our nation’s Capitol for one very, very basic and simple reason, to save our democracy.
You’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong.
You will have an illegitimate president, that’s what you’ll have. And we can’t let that happen.
The radical left knows exactly what they’re doing. They’re ruthless and it’s time that somebody did something about it.
Together we will drain the Washington swamp and we will clean up the corruption in our nation’s capital. We have done a big job on it, but you think it’s easy, it’s a dirty business. It’s a dirty business. You have a lot of bad people out there.
Together we are determined to defend and preserve government of the people, by the people and for the people.
And we fight. We fight like Hell and if you don’t fight like Hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore.
We’re going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country.

Conclusion

Whether through negligent carelessness or conscious intent, Donald J. Trump is responsible for the violence at the Capitol building on 1/6/21. He showed a wanton disregard for the clear and present danger that had evidenced itself multiple times over the days and months leading up to the rally. He sent what he reasonably should have known was a potentially violent crowd down Pennsylvania Avenue to a Capitol building that was full of U.S. Congress members who were in the middle of performing their solemn duty to certify the Electoral College votes for President. That is criminal negligence at best, and treason against the United States at worst.

Excellent post. The jackass is a criminal. What you didn't even mention is that he is likely guilty of involuntary manslaughter of hundreds of thousands of American citizens, citizens that he took an oath to protect. What is amazing is that there are still idiots who support his BS.
Its not the Republican party that is guilty: its HIM.

 

[Cardinal]

Fantastic post.

And as I’ve said many, many times already, the toxic nature of his lie and the kind of people he was telling it to guaranteed violence and chaos. It’s no different than lying to all of your neighbors that Bob molested their children and that they should march “peacefully” to his house in protest. You know damn well that Bob will be lucky if he gets through the day without his house getting burned to the ground.

 

[Binary_Digit]

There are many who wouldn't accept Trump's responsibility in the events of January 6th even if he had said "I want you all to march into the Capitol, murder cops, and hang Mike Pence."

Do you remember the whole argument about how we should take him seriously, but not literally? All of his various handlers and spin masters who constantly needed to twist his lies and hate into something more palatable? And that he would always contradict them almost immediately and let it be known he meant exactly what he had said?

January 6th was the culmination of years of effort by Trump, Congressional Republicans, and their allies in the media to undermine the faith of conservatives in our public institutions. And now, as usual, they want to play dumb when the consequences of their actions are finally made clear.

 

[Binary_Digit]

Fantastic post.

And as I’ve said many, many times already, the toxic nature of his lie and the kind of people he was telling it to guaranteed violence and chaos. It’s no different than lying to all of your neighbors that Bob molested their children and that they should march “peacefully” to his house in protest. You know damn well that Bob will be lucky if he gets through the day without his house getting burned to the ground.

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. - These folks think we're already close to that point. Even the more sane ones think the end goal of Democrats is to sell out to China and install a full-on socialist regime. Sheesh. We have our issues in government of course, but the distance between actual and perfect is a LOT smaller than these people realize. We have it so much better than many other nations that actually do have real life tyrants ruling over them. Maybe they should watch a few episodes of Locked Up Abroad or something. And people on both sides need to get better at smelling a rat when getting their information.

 

[Mithrae]

Excellent posts establishing the known likely outcome of the incitement from Trump and his enablers. Could have used a little more discussion at the end of Trump's reported delight at the outcome, delaying of the national guard and his tweeted "love" for those "great patriots" involved, to further confirm his intent also.

 

[Sandy Shanks]

I'm aware of the handful of times when Trump denounced violence and white supremacy, and that he called for peace both before and during the Capitol attack.

The A.P. reports, "House Democrats on Thursday asked Donald Trump to testify under oath for his Senate impeachment trial, challenging him to respond to their charge that he incited a violent mob to storm the Capitol."

Trump adviser Jason Miller dismissed the trial as “an unconstitutional proceeding.”

There is absolutely nothing in the Constitution that forbids this impeachment and trial. Presidents are responsible for what they do from their first day in office to their last day in office. They don't get a mulligan for their last January in office.

Republicans didn't know that?

Trump’s lawyers denounced the request as a “public relations stunt.”

Asking the accused to appear before a jury to defend himself is a “public relations stunt?”

Have Republicans lost their minds?

Little wonder why Trump's supporters are staying silent. This is idiocy.

 

[Binary_Digit]

Excellent posts establishing the known likely outcome of the incitement from Trump and his enablers. Could have used a little more discussion at the end of Trump's reported delight at the outcome and his tweeted "love" for those "great patriots" involved, to further confirm his intent also.

Good point on his "I love you" statements afterwards. About his reported delight, I didn't want leave the cultists any low hanging fruit like anonymous sources that they could use to red-herring their way into some sort of perceived victory. It's also why I didn't mention Enrique Tarrio's White House "Christmas" visit.

 

[Sandy Shanks]

Have Republicans lost their minds?

The Times reports, "The House on Thursday took the extraordinary step of ousting a lawmaker from two congressional committees, exiling Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia."

199 Republicans voted their opposition to stripping Greene of her committee assignments.

This was done because the Republican Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy was afraid to make that decision.

Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, R-Ga has promoted QAnon, the debunked conspiracy theory that imagines former President Trump is leading a fight against a government controlled by a global deep state cabal of Satan-worshiping pedophiles. On social media, YouTube videos and elsewhere, she has said Muslims don’t belong in government, suggested the 2018 Parkland, Fla., school shooting and others were staged, and repeatedly endorsed executing Democratic leaders."

Her apology speech today was far too late, self-serving, attempted to blame the media, and was disingenuous. Put a different way, she made a complete fool of herself and her lack of intellectual abilities were obvious.

On January 6, 138 House Republican supported Trump's insurrection and the claim that the election was stolen from him.

Today 199 House Republicans voted their support for a person who had threatened the lives of House members.

It seems readily apparent the Republican Party has a problem ... a very serious problem.

 

[Binary_Digit]

The A.P. reports, "House Democrats on Thursday asked Donald Trump to testify under oath for his Senate impeachment trial, challenging him to respond to their charge that he incited a violent mob to storm the Capitol."

Trump adviser Jason Miller dismissed the trial as “an unconstitutional proceeding.”

There is absolutely nothing in the Constitution that forbids this impeachment and trial. Presidents are responsible for what they do from their first day in office to their last day in office. They don't get a mulligan for their last January in office.

Republicans didn't know that?

Trump’s lawyers denounced the request as a “public relations stunt.”

Asking the accused to appear before a jury to defend himself is a “public relations stunt?”

Have Republicans lost their minds?

Little wonder why Trump's supporters are staying silent. This is idiocy.

Not just idiocy, it's morally bankrupt to think the Founders intended for the President to be able to do whatever he wants on his way out the door without consequence. Absolutely shameful.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

5.) On Dec 18, 2020, Trump tweeted: "Big protest in D.C. on January 6th. Be there, will be wild!" Three permits were issued for protests on 1/6/21 (Rally to Revival, The Silent Majority, and March for Trump/Save America), but none gave permission to march to the Capitol building.

Here’s What We Know About the Pro-Trump Rallies That Have Permits - Washingtonian

Thousands of people will visit Washington, DC, Tuesday and Wednesday to demonstrate their support for President Trump, who lost the November election to Joe Biden but continues to pretend he did not. Authorities expect Trump fans to occupy large swathes of downtown DC both days and have closed...

www.washingtonian.com

A senior FBI official told NBC News that before the rally, the agency learned "credible and actionable information about individuals who were planning on traveling to the protests who expressed a desire to engage in violence."

Report: Before riot, NYPD, FBI warned Capitol Police about possibility of violence

Prior to Wednesday's riot at the U.S. Capitol, the FBI and New York Police Department notified Capitol Police about the possibility of violence, senior law enforcement officials told NBC News.On Wednesday, President Trump spoke at a rally held to coincide with the tallying of electoral votes. He...

news.yahoo.com

At this point, a responsible person of sound moral character and integrity would recognize and acknowledge that great care should be taken going forward so as to not further mislead potentially violent people into attempting or committing further acts of violence in their name. But alas, great care was not taken.

6.) At the protests on 1/6/21, Trump said to the Save America crowd: "I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard." But that's the only mention of remaining peaceful in the entire speech. Meanwhile, he made the following statements (in order of appearance):

We will never give up. We will never concede, it doesn’t happen. You don’t concede when there’s theft involved.
Our country has had enough. We will not take it anymore and that’s what this is all about...we will stop the steal.
We will not let them silence your voices. We’re not going to let it happen. Not going to let it happen.
We’re gathered together in the heart of our nation’s Capitol for one very, very basic and simple reason, to save our democracy.
You’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong.
You will have an illegitimate president, that’s what you’ll have. And we can’t let that happen.
The radical left knows exactly what they’re doing. They’re ruthless and it’s time that somebody did something about it.
Together we will drain the Washington swamp and we will clean up the corruption in our nation’s capital. We have done a big job on it, but you think it’s easy, it’s a dirty business. It’s a dirty business. You have a lot of bad people out there.
Together we are determined to defend and preserve government of the people, by the people and for the people.
And we fight. We fight like Hell and if you don’t fight like Hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore.
We’re going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country.

Conclusion

Whether through negligent carelessness or conscious intent, Donald J. Trump is responsible for the violence at the Capitol building on 1/6/21. He showed a wanton disregard for the clear and present danger that had evidenced itself multiple times over the days and months leading up to the rally. He sent what he reasonably should have known was a potentially violent crowd down Pennsylvania Avenue to a Capitol building that was full of U.S. Congress members who were in the middle of performing their solemn duty to certify the Electoral College votes for President. That is criminal negligence at best, and treason against the United States at worst.

Damn! Need you as an impeachment manager. Nicely done.

And the GOP senators will hear the testimony, see the videos, read the tweets, all of the mountain of evidence, ignore everything and vote to acquit. Because they all looking out only for their own political futures and could give a damn less if Trump gets away with it. And the Trumpsters love it. They don't give a flying **** about what happened at the capitol.

 

[Sandy Shanks]

I'm aware of the handful of times when Trump denounced violence and white supremacy, and that he called for peace both before and during the Capitol attack.

Throughout his Presidency Trump wanted it both ways. He would say something provocative -- as he did on Jan. 6 -- then say the very opposite in the same speech or tweet -- as he did on Jan. 6. He often contradicted himelf. Trump thought he was being clever.

It's amazing how many of Trump's followers fall for this scam. They believe what they want to believe and don't want to be bothered with reality.

 

[Binary_Digit]

So far, five people who insisted that Trump didn't incite an insurrection have chosen to not support their position here. I hope they choose to stop believing it too.

 

[lurchadams]

Throughout his Presidency Trump wanted it both ways. He would say something provocative -- as he did on Jan. 6 -- then say the very opposite in the same speech or tweet -- as he did on Jan. 6. He often contradicted himelf. Trump thought he was being clever.

It's amazing how many of Trump's followers fall for this scam. They believe what they want to believe and don't want to be bothered with reality.

Exactly - which is why Republicans are the first party to allow a self-declared white supremacist and bigot into their caucus - and then of course deny they've done it - despite all her public statements and actions.

**** republicans.

 

[Binary_Digit]

Exactly - which is why Republicans are the first party to allow a self-declared white supremacist and bigot into their caucus - and then of course deny they've done it - despite all her public statements and actions.

**** republicans.

And they immediately rewarded her by assigning her to the Education and Budget Committees.

Liz Cheney voted to impeach a President for an objectively impeachable offense. Off the record and with no partisan consequence, only 33% of Republicans voted that she be stripped of her positions for it.
Margarie T. Green liked a tweet calling for a member of Congress to be shot in the head. On the record and with possible partisan consequence, 94% voted that she remain in her positions in spite of it.

Party before country is a blight.

 

[lurchadams]

And they immediately rewarded her by assigning her to the Education and Budget Committees.

Liz Cheney voted to impeach a President for an objectively impeachable offense. Off the record and with no partisan consequence, only 33% of Republicans voted that she be stripped of her positions for it.
Margarie T. Green liked a tweet calling for a member of Congress to be shot in the head. On the record and with possible partisan consequence, 94% voted that she remain in her positions in spite of it.

Party before country is a blight.

"Self, then party before country": Today's Republican motto.

 

[Ethel2]

"Self, then party before country": Today's Republican motto.

Thats the conservative credo. Not all conservatives, but far too many have zero sense of obligation to society, zero sense of self sacrifice for the common good-especially during an emergency situation. Personally I find that attitude incredibly selfish. We are all interdependent. Freedom is wonderful but without also supporting the society in which we all live there can be no freedom.

 

[lurchadams]

Thats the conservative credo. Not all conservatives, but far too many have zero sense of obligation to society, zero sense of self sacrifice for the common good-especially during an emergency situation. Personally I find that attitude incredibly selfish. We are all interdependent. Freedom is wonderful but without also supporting the society in which we all live there can be no freedom.

LOL - you are not alone in knowing today's Republicans are a clown car full of selfish pricks.

 

[Killer Clouds]

It's easy to see the DCP is full of lying hypocrites.

 

[Binary_Digit]

It's easy to see the DCP is full of lying hypocrites.

Thanks for the post! Anything relevant to add?

 

[iguanaman]

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. - These folks think we're already close to that point. Even the more sane ones think the end goal of Democrats is to sell out to China and install a full-on socialist regime. Sheesh. We have our issues in government of course, but the distance between actual and perfect is a LOT smaller than these people realize. We have it so much better than many other nations that actually do have real life tyrants ruling over them. Maybe they should watch a few episodes of Locked Up Abroad or something. And people on both sides need to get better at smelling a rat when getting their information.

This why we generally did not have personality cults before the one term mistake. These people have lost all connection with reality.

 

[Lursa]

IMO it can be simplified to inciting a specific illegal/unconstitutional act and showed The Donald 'encouraged' it by falsely creating an atmosphere of fear, outrage, and injustice. And it was all knowingly based on lies.

1) Did he lie to his followers...Jan 6 and before that...that Pence had the power to stop the certification of the electoral college results that day? Yes or no? (to answer no is to admit he's stupid and incompetent, he'd been attempting it for weeks, so he knew)​

​

2) Did he clearly send a call to action to the crowd that day to walk with him to the Capitol and convince Pence to do so? (It's in the transcripts) Yes or no? (I didnt say declaring any violence, that's not necessary for the definition of incitement.)​

​

3) Was the purpose of that specific call for action (in Question 2) unconstitutional? Yes or no? (it was. Any action Pence could have taken would have been illegal and unconstitutional. If you disagree, explain how?)​

By 'simplified' I mean for purposes of prosecution...for the impeachment or criminally. I dont believe they'll vote to convict but I'd like the case to be made and be very clear.

 

[Binary_Digit]

IMO it can be simplified to inciting a specific illegal/unconstitutional act and showed The Donald 'encouraged' it by falsely creating an atmosphere of fear, outrage, and injustice. And it was all knowingly based on lies.

1) Did he lie to his followers...Jan 6 and before that...that Pence had the power to stop the certification of the electoral college results that day? Yes or no? (to answer no is to admit he's stupid and incompetent, he'd been attempting it for weeks, so he knew)​

​

2) Did he clearly send a call to action to the crowd that day to walk with him to the Capitol and convince Pence to do so? (It's in the transcripts) Yes or no? (I didnt say declaring any violence, that's not necessary for the definition of incitement.)​

​

3) Was the purpose of that specific call for action (in Question 2) unconstitutional? Yes or no? (it was. Any action Pence could have taken would have been illegal and unconstitutional. If you disagree, explain how?)​

By 'simplified' I mean for purposes of prosecution...for the impeachment or criminally. I dont believe they'll vote to convict but I'd like the case to be made and be very clear.

Your post reminded me of a quote from the 1/6/21 speech that I didn't include in the OP: " When you catch somebody in a fraud, you are allowed to go by very different rules." He then calls on Mike Pence to adhere to very different (unconstitutional) rules. We all know the crowd heard "very different rules" as being applicable to them as well. Draining the swamp is a "dirty business." Mob boss innuendo in its purest and most undeniable form.