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Incarceration: The South is the least racist area of the country

Why are some states gray in the second map?

The only way to judge how racist a state is scientific opinion polls by professional sociologists. We all know racism is 100% psychological.
 
Patriotic Voter said:
Why are some states gray in the second map?

The only way to judge how racist a state is scientific opinion polls by professional sociologists. We all know racism is 100% psychological.
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Lack of data. I may look at income ratios by state next.
 
The south incarcerates more of every race, due to a combination of more crime and barbaric sentencing. "We incarcerate more black and Hispanic people, but we incarcerate MANY more white people than other states" isn't quite the brag that you think it is.

Most carceral states overall:
  • Louisiana (680)
  • Oklahoma (639)
  • Mississippi (636)
  • Arkansas (586)
  • Arizona (558)
  • Texas (529)
  • Kentucky (516)
  • Georgia (507)
  • Idaho (475)
  • Florida (444)
Most carceral states toward black people:
  • South Dakota (4710)
  • Wisconsin (4416)
  • Iowa (4200)
  • Vermont (3797)
  • Utah (3588)
  • Montana (3569)
  • Colorado (3491)
  • Arizona (3294)
  • Oklahoma (3252)
  • Texas (3162)
 
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Gatsby said:
The south incarcerates more of every race, due to a combination of more crime and barbaric sentencing. "We incarcerate more black and Hispanic people, but we incarcerate MANY more white people than other states" isn't quite the brag that you think it is.
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The highest rates for white incarceration are: Oklahoma, Idaho, Kentucky, Texas, Arkansas, Arizona, Alabama, Alaska, Hawaii and Mississippi. The lowest white are rates are MA, NJ, NY, MN, RI, MD, ME, IL, CT and UT.

However, it's the "disparity" that we're supposed to make a big deal out of.
 
Income disparity, darker is better:

map1_1200px.jpg

The South fades a bit here from it's chart-topping performance in being the least racist as far as incarceration. The northeast partially makes up for putting Blacks and Hispanics in jail with a reasonable income distribution. However, the South with all of its confederate statues handily wipes the floor with the upper midwest.
 
Racism to include women and income inequality is still everywhere ............
 
Rickeroo said:
The highest rates for white incarceration are: Oklahoma, Idaho, Kentucky, Texas, Arkansas, Arizona, Alabama, Alaska, Hawaii and Mississippi. The lowest white are rates are MA, NJ, NY, MN, RI, MD, ME, IL, CT and UT.

However, it's the "disparity" that we're supposed to make a big deal out of.
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Yes, the disparity is certainly a problem. There are good policy reasons to want to reduce the overall incarceration rate, but I think it's fair to question why some states have large disparities. (i.e. If Massachusetts wants to pursue a less carceral approach, that's great, but people of all races should share in it.) I'm just saying...states that incarcerate a lot of people overall don't get to brag about their numbers. Solving a racial disparity by incarcerating more minorities and many more white people is not a step in the right direction.

States that have a low incarceration rate AND a low racial disparity have more justification for touting their numbers, since they're doing something right. North Dakota, Washington state, and Hawaii all seem to be pretty good in that regard.
 
About the dumbest attempt at analysis I've heard yet, @Rickeroo. I wouldn't need to know that you're always pushing racist crap here to see that.
 
Razoo said:
Racism is still everywhere ............
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Right That is why everyone wants to come here because we are the racist country in the world.
Actually, we are the most diverse country in the world. But continue to divide with the racism game.
 
Rickeroo said:
View attachment 67395440

View attachment 67395441

Who knew that Massachusetts was the most racist state with regard to Hispanic imprisonment? In both maps, the "racist" South is looking pretty good. Maybe it's because of all the confederate statues:

View attachment 67395439


Incarceration rate by race and state.

Confederate statue distribution.
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I don't think this is particularly valid to use as the South has way more Black people and Hispanics. It's like comparing mass shooting deaths by population and Norway being high on the list because of one singular mass shooting that killed a lot of people while they also have a low population.
 
Gatsby said:
The south incarcerates more of every race, due to a combination of more crime and barbaric sentencing. "We incarcerate more black and Hispanic people, but we incarcerate MANY more white people than other states" isn't quite the brag that you think it is.

Most carceral states overall:
  • Louisiana (680)
  • Oklahoma (639)
  • Mississippi (636)
  • Arkansas (586)
  • Arizona (558)
  • Texas (529)
  • Kentucky (516)
  • Georgia (507)
  • Idaho (475)
  • Florida (444)
Most carceral states toward black people:
  • South Dakota (4710)
  • Wisconsin (4416)
  • Iowa (4200)
  • Vermont (3797)
  • Utah (3588)
  • Montana (3569)
  • Colorado (3491)
  • Arizona (3294)
  • Oklahoma (3252)
  • Texas (3162)
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The south with the exception of Kentucky hold the most black population. For example I know South Carolina is 30% black

We used to have a joke in South Carolina jails, the Blacks are in jail for bogus drug charges and the whites are in jail for breach of peace or domestic violence.
 
Fishking said:
I don't think this is particularly valid to use as the South has way more Black people and Hispanics. It's like comparing mass shooting deaths by population and Norway being high on the list because of one singular mass shooting that killed a lot of people while they also have a low population.
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You would be surprised at how few blacks make up California population (I was)


1654723261796.png
 
Thanks all for the responses. The point of the OP was to counter the narrative that the South is racist while ignoring the other parts of the country - those parts being the accusers, of course. Basically a "people in glass houses" theme.

I can understand the motive though. In the 1690's when "witchcraft" was all the rage, one of the best ways to avoid suspicion was to accuse a person of being a witch.
 
Rickeroo said:
Thanks all for the responses. The point of the OP was to counter the narrative that the South is racist while ignoring the other parts of the country - those parts being the accusers, of course. Basically a "people in glass houses" theme.

I can understand the motive though. In the 1690's when "witchcraft" was all the rage, one of the best ways to avoid suspicion was to accuse a person of being a witch.
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I've thought similar. "Stop being racist towards minorities," say those who hardly ever see minorities to those who live, work, and interact with them every day.
 
Living in Chicago for 38 years and then south Carolina for 14 years, the south is not segregated and racist much anymore unless you travel up to the mountains of north Carolina, west Virginia or Mississippi.

My small town laughed when the nazi stuff started to appear a few years ago. We all worked together, went to church together and played together, no need to lock your house or car
 
Rickeroo said:
View attachment 67395440

View attachment 67395441

Who knew that Massachusetts was the most racist state with regard to Hispanic imprisonment? In both maps, the "racist" South is looking pretty good. Maybe it's because of all the confederate statues:

View attachment 67395439


Incarceration rate by race and state.

Confederate statue distribution.7
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There is no way to draw the conclusion you are drawing from the data as presented. You are bringing back memories off your unusual take on statistics from your CRT study. Just stop will you. Its embarrassing.

From the article you have linked in this thread:
"The report cites a number of causes for racial disparity within U.S. prisons. According to the report, the nation's history of white supremacy over Black people created a legacy of racial subordination that impacts their criminal justice outcomes today.

The report also asserts that communities of color, especially Black Americans, are negatively affected by biased policies and practices including police-citizen relations, pre-trial detention, the weight criminal history records can carry in sentencing and unequal prosecutorial charging.

The Sentencing Project recommends policymakers mitigate racial injustice within the criminal justice system by decriminalizing low-level drug offenses leftover from the war on drugs, enacting proportional sentencing by revising systems that deny an individualized approach to sentencing, and measuring the future impact of crime-related policies on demographic groups through racial impact legislation."

Racial segregation policy was nationalized during the middle of the 20th century, this included the "nation's history of white supremacy over Black people" and the "legacy of racial subordination that impacts criminal justice outcomes today." All of which is part of the great migration of Black Americans from the South to the North between 1910 and 1970.
From the National Archives:
"The Great Migration was one of the largest movements of people in United States history. Approximately six million Black people moved from the American South to Northern, Midwestern, and Western states roughly from the 1910s until the 1970s. The driving force behind the mass movement was to escape racial violence, pursue economic and educational opportunities, and obtain freedom from the oppression of Jim Crow."

Little did Black Americans know that they would not escape oppression in their effort to seek better lives but that in the Nationalization of the racial policies of the South, while Black Americans may have had better job opportunities where they landed post Migration North and West, those racial issues they were hoping to leave behind just followed them.

The element of the entire piece that is worth recognizing is the result of the FAILED "WAR ON DRUGS" which resulted in ridiculously long sentences mainly for relatively low level drug crimes and mainly for street dealers who were far more often black and Latino than White by a wide margin. Drug crime is by and large an urban experience where the failed "War on Drugs" did most of its damage. White drug criminals go to treatment in this country. Minority drug criminals go to prison.

There is a link here between the failed War on Drugs and the whole Choice for Women argument. A high percentage of White women will continue to enjoy "Choice" if Roe V Wade is struck down simply because more White women will be able to travel to States where Abortion will still be legal while a much higher percentage of Minority women will not have the financial and other support needed to find their way to a safe Abortion in a State where it will still be legal.

I just love these simplistic arguments tossed out there in some vain effort to either deflect racism as an element of American Society or make weird deterministic statements about some geographical component of the racial issues we face in this country. Even my own small contribution here does not highlight every issue of racial oppression Black and Latino Americans have suffered in this country. At least I know it and admit to it.

I have a little comment for you in this regard. All you do when you continue to make these weird, deterministic race based statements whether about CRT or here about incarceration rates is expose your own issues with race. NICE TRY.
 
Gatsby said:
The south incarcerates more of every race, due to a combination of more crime and barbaric sentencing. "We incarcerate more black and Hispanic people, but we incarcerate MANY more white people than other states" isn't quite the brag that you think it is.

Most carceral states overall:
  • Louisiana (680)
  • Oklahoma (639)
  • Mississippi (636)
  • Arkansas (586)
  • Arizona (558)
  • Texas (529)
  • Kentucky (516)
  • Georgia (507)
  • Idaho (475)
  • Florida (444)
Most carceral states toward black people:
  • South Dakota (4710)
  • Wisconsin (4416)
  • Iowa (4200)
  • Vermont (3797)
  • Utah (3588)
  • Montana (3569)
  • Colorado (3491)
  • Arizona (3294)
  • Oklahoma (3252)
  • Texas (3162)
Click to expand...
Regardless, if they were more racist it would still show up in the rates.
 
Simpletruther said:
Regardless, if they were more racist it would still show up in the rates.
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Not at all necessarily so. Read the post right above your post here if you can. That would be post #19 since your post is post #20.
 
jnug said:
All you do when you continue to make these weird, deterministic race based statements whether about CRT or here about incarceration rates is expose your own issues with race.
Click to expand...

What makes CRT so compelling to me is that white leftists are bound to its ideals - not just "the South". The incarceration and income disparity, where "not the South" looks the worst, also plays into this. I find it amusing.

The northeast, despite their lack of confederate statues, needs to check their privilege and start incarcerating Blacks more fairly, like the South does.
 
Simpletruther said:
Regardless, if they were more racist it would still show up in the rates.
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I agree it's certainly worth examining the racial disparities in sentencing, particularly in the states where it's really bad. I'm just saying...solving that disparity by incarcerating more of every race is not good.
 
Rickeroo said:
What makes CRT so compelling to me is that white leftists are bound to its ideals - not just "the South". The incarceration and income disparity, where "not the South" looks the worst, also plays into this. I find it amusing.

The northeast, despite their lack of confederate statues, needs to check their privilege and start incarcerating Blacks more fairly, like the South does.
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You are still missing the component of drug incarcerations that plays into this entire issue.

Also from your own linked article:
"Although the U.S. remains a world leader in imprisonment, The Sentencing Project reports that nine states have been successful in decreasing their incarcerated population by more than 30% in recent years as a result of policy reforms and reduced prison admissions and lengths of stay. These states include Alaska, New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, Alabama, Rhode Island, Vermont, Hawaii and California."

So progress is being made except apparently in your case since you continue to ply what is essentially a half-lie or. half-truth (take your pick) by using a real statistic to draw a conclusion that is simply FALSE. A conclusion that simply can not be drawn from the statistic.

Incarceration: The South is the least racist area of the country​


That dog won't hunt.

What by the way does Confederate Statues have to do with your premise. Here I will help you, NOTHING that is what. Confederate Statures out in public park spaces and most specifically in front of government buildings and courthouses are viewed as purposeful efforts at Jim Crow. They have nothing however to do with Incarceration unless one wants to make the case that seeing one of those statues as one enters the courthouse to give testimony amd/for his trial reminds him of what he might well be up against and thus has an actual impact on how effectively he gives his testimony.

As for your comments in your post about CRT: "What makes CRT so compelling to me is that white leftists are bound to its ideals - not just "the South"" There are no ideals that I can identify in CRT which is after all a theory. So I fail to see a connection between "ideals", leftists and CRT.
 
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jnug said:
You are still missing the component of drug incarcerations that plays into this entire issue.

Also from your own linked article:
"Although the U.S. remains a world leader in imprisonment, The Sentencing Project reports that nine states have been successful in decreasing their incarcerated population by more than 30% in recent years as a result of policy reforms and reduced prison admissions and lengths of stay. These states include Alaska, New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, Alabama, Rhode Island, Vermont, Hawaii and California."

So progress is being made except apparently in your case since you continue to ply what is essentially a half-lie or. half-truth (take your pick) by using a real statistic to draw a conclusion that is simply FALSE. A conclusion that simply can not be drawn from the statistic.

Incarceration: The South is the least racist area of the country​


That dog won't hunt.

What by the way does Confederate Statues have to do with your premise. Here I will help you, NOTHING that is what. Confederate Statures out in public park spaces and most specifically in front of government buildings and courthouses are viewed as purposeful efforts at Jim Crow. They have nothing however to do with Incarceration unless one wants to make the case that seeing one of those statues as one enters the courthouse to give testimony amd/for his trial reminds him of what he might well be up against and thus has an actual impact on how effectively he gives his testimony.

As for your comments in your post about CRT: "What makes CRT so compelling to me is that white leftists are bound to its ideals - not just "the South"" There are no ideals that I can identify in CRT which is after all a theory. So I fail to see a connection between "ideals", leftists and CRT.
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Speaking with respect:

What I glean from this thread is not, "blue states are racist" as much as "blue states are racist by the logic of guys like Ibram X. Kendi" whose creed seems to be that wherever you find racial disparities, there you find racism.

Addendum: And that all efforts to explain the disparity in terms other than racism is just defense of racism.
 
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