Less, where have you been? The government has banned low mileage automobile fleets and low efficiency air conditioners. And, what is happening now is low efficiency trucks are being banned. And many of the manufactures of these things support the so called banes because their products will cost a little more and save a lot.
I'm also against oppressive, authoritarian tyranny. We have to not let that happen. But, I don't think air conditioner, car fleet, truck fleet, light bulbs standards are oppressive, authoritarian tyranny. They enable progress. Sorry, I'm an engineer and I understand what prevents improvement and why these laws are needed.I am all for manufacturers improving their products. I have said that throughout these debates. What I am against is oppressive, authoritarian tyranny.
I'm also against oppressive, authoritarian tyranny. We have to not let that happen. But, I don't think air conditioner, car fleet, truck fleet, light bulbs standards are oppressive, authoritarian tyranny. They enable progress. Sorry, I'm an engineer and I understand what prevents improvement and why these laws are needed.
I'm also against oppressive, authoritarian tyranny. We have to not let that happen. But, I don't think air conditioner, car fleet, truck fleet, light bulbs standards are oppressive, authoritarian tyranny. They enable progress. Sorry, I'm an engineer and I understand what prevents improvement and why these laws are needed.
Nope. Just arguing against the know-it-all elites who know better than the masses, but really don't want to take meaningful measures to reduce pollution and minimize energy usage.
There is a reason words such as "expert" exist in our vocabulary. You are confusing a know-it-all with an expert in a given field. Those who have less understanding of areas should respect those who have more. This holds for each subject independently. I will defeat the majority of masses you can toss at me in mathematics, whereas the masses will defeat me in an area such as cooking. Let me handle the jobs which require mathematical analysis and you can prepare dinner.
What I am against is oppressive, authoritarian tyranny.
Bernanke was an expert in finance when he told us that the banks were on solid footing.
There is a reason words such as "expert" exist in our vocabulary. You are confusing a know-it-all with an expert in a given field. Those who have less understanding of areas should respect those who have more. This holds for each subject independently. I will defeat the majority of masses you can toss at me in mathematics, whereas the masses will defeat me in an area such as cooking. Let me handle the jobs which require mathematical analysis and you can prepare dinner.
If you think that banning incandescent light bulbs is oppressive, authoritarian tyranny then you should probably take a trip to Syria right now.
The trouble of course, is that these better bulbs are so expensive...
So, naturally the people will buy the cheapest, as we have for the past 6,000 years.
I do not think that they are convinced that the LED is more economical in the long run. Of this, I am not convinced of either...
Our government tells us that the old bulbs waste too much energy...but far too many do not trust "our government".
Why ?
Advertising... the biggest lie in America...who will believe anything that they say ?
So we badly need reform here...truth in advertising...real reform...
Did they happen to crash into you?
Lets be clear they have no obligation to protect your health or the environment in which you live. They only have the obligation to protect your rights and preserve your liberty. Big difference my boy.
Seriously? Then what exactly is the point of this argument, anyway?
Where have I been? Well, I was born in Chicago, but moved to Missouri when I was... Oh wait, you were just asking a silly question. Sorry, my bad!
I am all for manufacturers improving their products. I have said that throughout these debates. What I am against is oppressive, authoritarian tyranny.
I’ll explain again using a different example, air conditioners in Arizona. Actually heat pumps. To build a more efficient heat pump rather than the lowest cost heat pump there are simple things you can do to start. You can over size many of the passive components, e.g. heat exchangers, filter dryers, mode valves but keep the same compressor, blower and fan and you can some additional insulation. The next step takes fan and blower motors that have run capacitors, usually base models have run/start capacitors type motors in the compressor. Fan blade and blower design can be changed to be more efficient but the process for manufacturing these is more expensive. But not many individuals are interested in these improvements if they are replacing a unit, cost drives them. The cost of the unit is buried in the quote the home owner gets from the firm that will replace the unit. A slightly lower cost in the unit improves the profit dramatically for the installing company. The installing companies are not expert in the engineering of the units and they generally don’t know about efficiency. The builder of new homes knows that the sale of the home will not be dependent on the efficiency of the heat pump. So the builder is motivated to buy the lowest cost heat pump. When the effective date of the required federal standard was close at hand several builders in the Phoenix area purchased hundreds of lower cost earlier units. At the volumes Goettl would manufacture higher efficiency units w/o the fed requirement they would be prohibitively expensive and hard to sell and would have payback times that made no sense, so they did not make them. With the fed requirement the cost comes down dramatically. So when I replaced my heat pump I could get what I wanted, I’m an engineer, but I didn’t have to ask for it. Without the fed rules, I couldn’t get what I wanted because it wouldn’t have been made.So explain to us what prevents improvement.
I’ll explain again using a different example, air conditioners in Arizona. Actually heat pumps. To build a more efficient heat pump rather than the lowest cost heat pump there are simple things you can do to start. You can over size many of the passive components, e.g. heat exchangers, filter dryers, mode valves but keep the same compressor, blower and fan and you can some additional insulation. The next step takes fan and blower motors that have run capacitors, usually base models have run/start capacitors type motors in the compressor. Fan blade and blower design can be changed to be more efficient but the process for manufacturing these is more expensive. But not many individuals are interested in these improvements if they are replacing a unit, cost drives them. The cost of the unit is buried in the quote the home owner gets from the firm that will replace the unit. A slightly lower cost in the unit improves the profit dramatically for the installing company. The installing companies are not expert in the engineering of the units and they generally don’t know about efficiency. The builder of new homes knows that the sale of the home will not be dependent on the efficiency of the heat pump. So the builder is motivated to buy the lowest cost heat pump. When the effective date of the required federal standard was close at hand several builders in the Phoenix area purchased hundreds of lower cost earlier units. At the volumes Goettl would manufacture higher efficiency units w/o the fed requirement they would be prohibitively expensive and hard to sell and would have payback times that made no sense, so they did not make them. With the fed requirement the cost comes down dramatically. So when I replaced my heat pump I could get what I wanted, I’m an engineer, but I didn’t have to ask for it. Without the fed rules, I couldn’t get what I wanted because it wouldn’t have been made.
You obviously have not kept up with the facts presented in the thread because I have already posted documentation of the fact that the light bulb industry helped craft this federal legislation because they did want to have to deal with conflicting state regulations for energy efficiency.
ROFL!!! I have never said that the elite or the intelligent are stupid. People from your side of the argument have literally said that the masses, which include intelligent people, are stupid. Nice try to flip the argument, but you have erred.
Thank you for making my argument that we should ban air conditioners and autos rather than lightbulbs. Lightbulbs use very little energy. The manual typewriter uses no electricity. The electric one does. Using the manual saves 100% of the energy used by the electric. If it doesn't save enough, it doesn't matter because real energy savings could be achieved, but your side does not advocate saving energy from the sources that use the most energy.
I don't believe you understand the conservative argument. We favor research and development of all types of energy including wind, solar, battery, fossil fuels, nuclear, and hydro. If someone could make a car that gets 1,000 mpg gallon, please make it. Some people will buy it. If someone could make a lightbulb that could last 40 years, please make it. If someone could make a truck that can carry 50,000 lbs and get 100 mpg, please make it. Conservatives would be delighted if each of these were achieved.
Where we differ is that we do not believe that tyranny is the American Spirit. We do not believe that tyranny is patriotic. I agree that America can do anything better and I don't wonder about that at all. I have faith in the "stupid" masses as well as the elites, at least, those who do not believe in tyranny.
Pretty ironic post you have there Phys251. Obama is the one who shut down the space program.
You belly ache about LesGovt putting words in your mouth and then you go on this rant about how he's against innovation. Not once has he said that. His position is that just like with the vast majority of past innovation, it doesn't come from government mandates.
Um, no he didn't. He allowed the space shuttle to cease operations, but NASA is still rolling on.
No-sir! See--right there. That's the kind of crap I'm talking about. Do you libertarian/conservatives have the slightest interest in trying to get things done, or is it more important to you to engage in a piss fight with anyone who you don't see eye-to-eye with? Thank god that the Founding Fathers, even though they too quarreled like dogs at times, were able to put their differences aside in the end.
Stop putting words in my mouth. Learn to speak truthfully, and then I might start taking you more seriously.
Anyone who thinks the government should be choosing what we can have, what we can buy, what we can use, how we shall live, who we must buy health care from...is a government man and may be unsuited to live free.Anyone that thinks saving money is worth revolting over, have at it! :sun
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