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In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

Marxistleninist

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These are among the key findings of a new analysis of trends in the religious composition and churchgoing habits of the American public, based on recent Pew Research Center random-digit-dial (RDD) political polling on the telephone. The data shows that the trend toward religious disaffiliation documented in the Center’s 2007 and 2014 Religious Landscape Studies, and before that in major national studies like the General Social Survey (GSS), has continued apace.

Pew Research Center’s 2007 and 2014 Religious Landscape Studies were huge national RDD surveys, each of which included interviews with more than 35,000 respondents who were asked dozens of detailed questions about their religious identities, beliefs and practices. The Center has not yet conducted a third such study, and when the Landscape Study is repeated, it is likely to use new methods that may prevent it from being directly comparable to the previous studies; growing challenges to conducting national surveys by telephone have led the Center to rely increasingly on self-administered surveys conducted online







In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace | Pew Research Center
 

ttwtt78640

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OK, but isn't such diversity said to be a good, perhaps even wonderful, thing?

 

Chomsky

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Sad.

Obviously we don't need nor want religious extremism. But a little spirituality & introspection is good for one's soul.
 

truthatallcost

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Christianity has historically united the country; it was the one thing that most Americans had in common, regardless of race, ethnicity, culture, or geographical differences. Now that the country seems to be abandoning Christianity in favor of vague spiritualism, other religions, or no religion, we're more fractured than ever.

A similar trend has been taking place in the UK in the past several decades, and it's safe to say that they're dealing with the effects of being divided and fractured as well. Brexit would have been unimaginable only a few decades ago. The battle for the UK's future demonstrates a strong resistance to all the changes brought about by the mammoth bureaucracy that is the EU Commission. We can look forward to similar battles here in the states.
 

Chomsky

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OK, but isn't such diversity said to be a good, perhaps even wonderful, thing?

I miss when tunes like these below were considered mainstream rock:




(Below, check out Jeff Beck's reaction to what appears to be a surprise guest at 0:45 and again at 4:55!)


 

ttwtt78640

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I miss when tunes like these below were considered mainstream rock:




(Below, check out Jeff Beck's reaction to what appears to be a surprise guest at 0:45 and again at 4:55!)


Absolutely I do:

 

j brown's body

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Christianity has historically united the country; it was the one thing that most Americans had in common, regardless of race, ethnicity, culture, or geographical differences. Now that the country seems to be abandoning Christianity in favor of vague spiritualism, other religions, or no religion, we're more fractured than ever.

A similar trend has been taking place in the UK in the past several decades, and it's safe to say that they're dealing with the effects of being divided and fractured as well. Brexit would have been unimaginable only a few decades ago. The battle for the UK's future demonstrates a strong resistance to all the changes brought about by the mammoth bureaucracy that is the EU Commission. We can look forward to similar battles here in the states.
Protestants used to vilify Catholics and they rioted against each other.
 

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Christianity has historically united the country; it was the one thing that most Americans had in common, regardless of race, ethnicity, culture, or geographical differences. Now that the country seems to be abandoning Christianity in favor of vague spiritualism, other religions, or no religion, we're more fractured than ever.

A similar trend has been taking place in the UK in the past several decades, and it's safe to say that they're dealing with the effects of being divided and fractured as well. Brexit would have been unimaginable only a few decades ago. The battle for the UK's future demonstrates a strong resistance to all the changes brought about by the mammoth bureaucracy that is the EU Commission. We can look forward to similar battles here in the states.
There are so many different denominations of Christianity in the United States, and many of them have a history of hating each other. So I don't see that shared Christianity really unites people that effectively. It certainly doesn't unite Mormons with Episcopalians for example.
 

truthatallcost

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Protestants used to vilify Catholics and they rioted against each other.
They also intermarried, worked alongside each other, and fought together in trenches. The divide between Catholics and Protestants isn't as deep or unwieldy as the divide between fundamental Muslims and virtually everyone else. It may have been the case in Ireland 40 years ago, but not in the USA.
 

MrWonka

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These are among the key findings of a new analysis of trends in the religious composition and churchgoing habits of the American public, based on recent Pew Research Center random-digit-dial (RDD) political polling on the telephone. The data shows that the trend toward religious disaffiliation documented in the Center’s 2007 and 2014 Religious Landscape Studies, and before that in major national studies like the General Social Survey (GSS), has continued apace.
Indoctrination, Proselytizing and controlling speech are requirements for the maintenance of any Organized Religion. Without them you cannot get any significant number of rational adults to accept such preposterous notions and trust so whole heatedly in centralized magically chosen leadership based entirely on Faith.

A lot of people may naturally gravitate towards a belief in some spiritual force or higher power that is influencing our lives and out of sheer fear of death convince themselves that there is an afterlife, but in terms of organized belief surrounding an individual or organization that is supposed to be in direct communication and have personal knowledge of the desires of the being no significant majority of people could be reasoned into the unreasonable.

Freedom of Speech, Freedom of the Press and the internet spell collective doom for major organized religion over time.
 

dixon01767

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Indoctrination, Proselytizing and controlling speech are requirements for the maintenance of any Organized Religion. Without them you cannot get any significant number of rational adults to accept such preposterous notions and trust so whole heatedly in centralized magically chosen leadership based entirely on Faith.

A lot of people may naturally gravitate towards a belief in some spiritual force or higher power that is influencing our lives and out of sheer fear of death convince themselves that there is an afterlife, but in terms of organized belief surrounding an individual or organization that is supposed to be in direct communication and have personal knowledge of the desires of the being no significant majority of people could be reasoned into the unreasonable.

Freedom of Speech, Freedom of the Press and the internet spell collective doom for major organized religion over time.
Sounds like bigotry towards the religious.
 

truthatallcost

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There are so many different denominations of Christianity in the United States, and many of them have a history of hating each other. So I don't see that shared Christianity really unites people that effectively. It certainly doesn't unite Mormons with Episcopalians for example.
Denominational divides do exist, but when's the last time you heard of Mormons bombing an Episcopalian church? Sectarian violence which occurs in the Islamic world on a regular basis is rare in majority Christian nations. I wouldn't say that the differences between Christians rises to the level of hatred.
 

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Christianity has historically united the country; it was the one thing that most Americans had in common
Garbage nonsense. Freedom from Tyranny that was almost exclusively brought on by God anointed Kings is what historically brought Americans together. It was religious persecution of various forms that drove most of the earliest settlers.

,regardless of race, ethnicity, culture, or geographical differences. Now that the country seems to be abandoning Christianity in favor of vague spiritualism, other religions, or no religion, we're more fractured than ever.
Except it is in fact the super religious(specifically christian) versus the non-religious that is the cause of the fracture. It is the older baby boomer generation that it still brainwashed by Religion versus their Younger non-religious children that are the source of the fracture. As the older Religious baby boomers die off we will be left will almost entirely the non-religious who will again be unified and they will be unified in away that is unlike any other generation of human beings has ever been.

All through human history Religion has been yet another unnecessary division. We already divide ourselves by race and nationality. Religion created yet another completely unnecessary fraction. As it dwindles we will be able to focus more on the things that unit us not less.

We can look forward to similar battles here in the states.
No, actually we can't. The battle is now, but once it is won by the younger less religious it will be like a title waive. Donald Trump's election, Brexit... these are both last ditch acts of desperation by the old guard who sees their power fading and will do anything to go back in time.

The kids have no interested in going backwards and with every year that passes a million deeply religious baby boomers die off while a million younger non-religious kids come of age. Once the damn of this current presidency breaks there is going to be a wave progress that will be unstoppable. There will be brief attempts at a rival at some point, but they will fail miserably. Just as religion today is nothing like religion of 100 years ago what remains of religion tomorrow will be an even further departure from the past.
 

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Denominational divides do exist, but when's the last time you heard of Mormons bombing an Episcopalian church? Sectarian violence which occurs in the Islamic world on a regular basis is rare in majority Christian nations. I wouldn't say that the differences between Christians rises to the level of hatred.
When's the last time Muslims bombed an Episcopalian church? I've never heard of it happening. If sectarian violence happens in the Muslim world despite a shared religion, what makes you think shared Christianity would help?
 

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I think Christianity, in a Western democracy, is closely linked on the right wing of politics with patriotism/nationalism.

In any other country in the Western World, if you wrap yourself in your country's flag, much less fly it from your doorstep, you're viewed as a sad, right wing idiot - who can also be prone to right wing violence. In the USA it's still seen as a good thing "patriotism".

In other Western countries, as Christianity had receded, so has nationalism. It's deeply uncool to fly a national flag or profess belief in a god - you'd get almost as much ridicule if you said you believed in Santa Claus
 

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Sounds like bigotry towards the religious.
Facts are not bigoted. When someone refuses to acknowledge reality no matter how much evidence you give them it is not bigotry to call them a moron it is perfectly accurate way to describe them.

You may disagree with my assessment, but it is nonsensical to classify it as bigotry.

All Religious people do share common ideas. If those ideas at their very core are stupid then it is perfectly reasonable to classify all religious people as stupid. Or at the very least ignorant.

It is no different than people who believe that the world is flat. That is a provably false claim that only those of profound ignorance or profound stupidity could possibly gravitate towards. It is perfectly reasonable to classify all flat earthers mentally deficient in some fashion. That is a fact.
 

Rich2018

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Facts are not bigoted. When someone refuses to acknowledge reality no matter how much evidence you give them it is not bigotry to call them a moron it is perfectly accurate way to describe them.

You may disagree with my assessment, but it is nonsensical to classify it as bigotry.

All Religious people do share common ideas. If those ideas at their very core are stupid then it is perfectly reasonable to classify all religious people as stupid. Or at the very least ignorant.

It is no different than people who believe that the world is flat. That is a provably false claim that only those of profound ignorance or profound stupidity could possibly gravitate towards. It is perfectly reasonable to classify all flat earthers mentally deficient in some fashion. That is a fact.
It's surprising how well educated some religious people are or how successful they've become.

You have to wonder why is it that the existence of god is the only thing they take on "faith", not stock prices, medicine, engineering etc
 

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Absolutely I do:

Man, those first two Skynyrd albums were ... so _ damn _ good! :thumbs:

This wasn't only a Southern thing, either. Kids up North loved them, too. Young guitarists far up North were learning Duane Allman & Dickie Betts licks, note for note! I worshiped Duane Allman. And I played a lot of his material. I literally wore-out copies of "Eat A Peach" and "Live At The Fillmore" learning those licks!


But ... let's not forget this classic from - '69!


 

OlNate

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Facts are not bigoted. When someone refuses to acknowledge reality no matter how much evidence you give them it is not bigotry to call them a moron it is perfectly accurate way to describe them.

You may disagree with my assessment, but it is nonsensical to classify it as bigotry.

All Religious people do share common ideas. If those ideas at their very core are stupid then it is perfectly reasonable to classify all religious people as stupid. Or at the very least ignorant.

It is no different than people who believe that the world is flat. That is a provably false claim that only those of profound ignorance or profound stupidity could possibly gravitate towards. It is perfectly reasonable to classify all flat earthers mentally deficient in some fashion. That is a fact.
So...you draw an equivalence between being religious, and flat earth theory. I understand that flat earth theory is provably false...but how do you prove God is false?
 

truthatallcost

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Garbage nonsense. Freedom from Tyranny that was almost exclusively brought on by God anointed Kings is what historically brought Americans together. It was religious persecution of various forms that drove most of the earliest settlers.


Except it is in fact the super religious(specifically christian) versus the non-religious that is the cause of the fracture. It is the older baby boomer generation that it still brainwashed by Religion versus their Younger non-religious children that are the source of the fracture. As the older Religious baby boomers die off we will be left will almost entirely the non-religious who will again be unified and they will be unified in away that is unlike any other generation of human beings has ever been.

All through human history Religion has been yet another unnecessary division. We already divide ourselves by race and nationality. Religion created yet another completely unnecessary fraction. As it dwindles we will be able to focus more on the things that unit us not less.


No, actually we can't. The battle is now, but once it is won by the younger less religious it will be like a title waive. Donald Trump's election, Brexit... these are both last ditch acts of desperation by the old guard who sees their power fading and will do anything to go back in time.
That's all fine and well for the college educated, upper-middle class minority of America that you represent, but what about the soon to be majority of Americans from immigrant backgrounds?

IQ rates are dropping in many developed countries and that doesn'''t bode well for humanity

They struggle with higher learning, are likely to end up at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder, and deep resentments towards your class are likely to ensue. Would you rather that they practice a religion that values nonviolence, or that they perhaps revert to the pre-European religions of their ancestors?

The kids have no interested in going backwards and with every year that passes a million deeply religious baby boomers die off while a million younger non-religious kids come of age. Once the damn of this current presidency breaks there is going to be a wave progress that will be unstoppable. There will be brief attempts at a rival at some point, but they will fail miserably. Just as religion today is nothing like religion of 100 years ago what remains of religion tomorrow will be an even further departure from the past.
This statement of yours confirms the blind belief in a coming utopia the left practices religiously, which doesn't seem very tied to facts. In order for your version of the future to be successful, the economy needs to keep growing without any downturns or significant job losses, both of which are naturally going to occur. The biggest tech companies are actually being given large subsidies by the government, to find ways to eliminate jobs that the lowest wage earners subsist on. Your version of the future is going to be put to the test in the coming decades, and will likely contradict with reality.
 

truthatallcost

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When's the last time Muslims bombed an Episcopalian church? I've never heard of it happening. If sectarian violence happens in the Muslim world despite a shared religion, what makes you think shared Christianity would help?
Because it has.

While Muslims only account for 1% of the official population of the USA, they commit interreligious violence in countries where they are becoming a large share of the population, such as in the Philippines.

Philippines church bombings: 20 killed and dozens wounded - CNN
 

ttwtt78640

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Man, those first two Skynyrd albums were ... so _ damn _ good! :thumbs:

This wasn't only a Southern thing, either. Kids up North loved them, too. Young guitarists far up North were learning Duane Allman & Dickie Betts licks, note for note! I worshiped Duane Allman. And I played a lot of his material. I literally wore-out copies of "Eat A Peach" and "Live At The Fillmore" learning those licks!


But ... let's not forget this classic from - '69!
Just a few more that came to mind:



 

Rich2018

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...but how do you prove God is false?
We can't prove that their is not god - and I use a legal definition of proof here
God is not guilty of existing

We can only prove that some gods and goddesses are false because of what they say is demonstrably false - such as the Abrahamic god(s) of the Bible

We can demonstrate that the Bible is false and therefore can make the assertion that the god(s) mentioned within in and draw their authority from it, are made made, therefore made up, therefore false.
 

TheEconomist

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There are so many different denominations of Christianity in the United States, and many of them have a history of hating each other. So I don't see that shared Christianity really unites people that effectively. It certainly doesn't unite Mormons with Episcopalians for example.
Our capacity to process information is limited implying there exists an upper bound on the number of things we can simultaneously juggle mentally. This simple fact has interesting consequences, not the least of which is the commonality of internal inconsistencies in our beliefs, actions, goals, etc. A more relevant aspect of this issue might be how we can sometimes focus on minute details at the expense of a larger picture. People can easily come to abhor each other over relatively inconsequential disagreements when those disagreements are put in the larger context of what they share.

Christians and Jews share even less at the theological level than most pairs of denominations among all those who call themselves Christians. On the other hand, all those groups share substantial amounts of values. Biblical scripture sowed the seeds of ideas we hold especially dearly in this 21st century, namely the equality of all human beings. The first of the two creation stories in Genesis proclaims that all human beings have been created in the image of God. The second one also states the equality of men and women, though not all English translations render the Hebrew properly according to Prager because the original text explicitly states that the woman is the equal of the man. Of course, this is just one example of profound values large swaths of people share because of their shared belief in some parts of biblical scripture. It's not exactly surprising that the Declaration of Independence states that "all men are created equal and endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights." It's not surprising either that a biblical verse would be the only statement put on the Liberty Bell.

The common background is what made the United States and much of the western world possible. It's this idea that you're worth something, that it matters how you choose to behave yourself and that you should be judged based on those choices. Without those very old ideas, much of our sense of justice would be different. The idea that you have rights wouldn't exist. The idea that you are innocent until proven guilty would not exist. It is also very probable that slavery would still exist: Christianity has long despised slavery and it was Christians, in the name of a Christian doctrine that rose against the institution and finally overthrew it. Though the Bible did not forbid all slavery, it condemns theft and capturing people has long been understood as a form of theft by Christians and Jews who commented on the ten commandments. What was considered acceptable is indentured slavery where you accept to work off a debt by enslaving yourself for a predetermined number of years. However, going to Africa to get shiploads of people who got captured against their will... That was understood as a violation of the commandment not to steal long before the King of England introduced the commerce of slaves in the American colonies.

What Jews and Christians share are the ideas which sowed the seeds of many things we find valuable today. It's just that people often lose the forest in the trees.
 
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