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In support of Northam

Lutherf

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While I do kind of get a kick out of all the media and politicians squirming in their seats over this guy and the picture I do want to be fair to him, as I'd hope others would be fair in different circumstances.

This picture was taken in 1984. That's 35 years ago and, frankly, a lifetime ago from a sociological perspective. Back then it wasn't uncommon to look at issues of race from a sarcastic perspective. We often made fun of racial issues as a way of pointing out the silliness of ever having had any real hatred. TV shows such as The Jeffersons, Benson, Different Strokes and The Cosby Show, among others, poked fun at racists. This episode of Saturday Night Live features Billy Crystal in blackface talking to Joe Piscopo. Does anyone really think Billy Crystal was doing that because he was a racist?

Times change. People change. Things we thought were funny or "cool" in one generation are often looked at with scorn in subsequent generations. It's just the way things go. It's also rather unfair to expect someone to look 35 years in the future and envision an act which is seen as relevant and provocative in the current time to be offensive in the later time.

There is plenty of reason to dislike Northam. His support of a vile "abortion" bill is enough. But the "racism" bit is, in my opinion, very much overblown. Unless the guy has a history of disenfranchising blacks it's rather unfair to use one picture from a generation ago to judge him today.
 

apdst

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Caddy Shack and Airplane! came out in 1980. There's no way those movies would be viewed as non-racist.

Eddy Murphy was doing Buckwheat in 1982. That's another one that would cause the hand wringers to lose their minds.
 

Rexedgar

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Everything is knee-jerk reactionary, in these times.
 

Fletch

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While I do kind of get a kick out of all the media and politicians squirming in their seats over this guy and the picture I do want to be fair to him, as I'd hope others would be fair in different circumstances.

This picture was taken in 1984. That's 35 years ago and, frankly, a lifetime ago from a sociological perspective. Back then it wasn't uncommon to look at issues of race from a sarcastic perspective. We often made fun of racial issues as a way of pointing out the silliness of ever having had any real hatred. TV shows such as The Jeffersons, Benson, Different Strokes and The Cosby Show, among others, poked fun at racists. This episode of Saturday Night Live features Billy Crystal in blackface talking to Joe Piscopo. Does anyone really think Billy Crystal was doing that because he was a racist?

Times change. People change. Things we thought were funny or "cool" in one generation are often looked at with scorn in subsequent generations. It's just the way things go. It's also rather unfair to expect someone to look 35 years in the future and envision an act which is seen as relevant and provocative in the current time to be offensive in the later time.

There is plenty of reason to dislike Northam. His support of a vile "abortion" bill is enough. But the "racism" bit is, in my opinion, very much overblown. Unless the guy has a history of disenfranchising blacks it's rather unfair to use one picture from a generation ago to judge him today.

I tend to agree with that, but what was the context of that picture? Was it a Halloween party or something? It does seem to be an odd pic to add to your yearbook home page though. I think the term racist is thrown around waaaay too much and this is no different. The pic is certainly racially insensitive but I wouldnt call it racist. But that would also depend on the context as well.
 

Fletch

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A thread started by Luther called "In Support of Northam."

Show of hands - anybody really shocked by this?

Are implying that Luther is a racist? If so, show your evidence or apologize.
 

Lutherf

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Are implying that Luther is a racist? If so, show your evidence or apologize.

I appreciate the thought but if the past 10 years or so of politics has taught me anything it's that accusations of racism on a political discussion board are worth somewhat less than spit in the sewer.
 

Fletch

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I appreciate the thought but if the past 10 years or so of politics has taught me anything it's that accusations of racism on a political discussion board are worth somewhat less than spit in the sewer.

But you still have to fight them, otherwise you are accepting the moniker.
 

SoCal

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Wow, over 35 years ago?? Those are the olden days when bigotry was excused and no one had knee-jerk reactions to overt racism.

Maybe the Repubs should try to recruit him, he'll find many more folks willing to excuse and overlook this...
 

Rexedgar

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I appreciate the thought but if the past 10 years or so of politics has taught me anything it's that accusations of racism on a political discussion board are worth somewhat less than spit in the sewer.

Luther, I think Superfly’s comment was more of a (R) & (D) thing; speaking from my experiences with her here @ DP.
 

Skeptic Bob

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Other than the abortion part, I agree.

I find this issue interesting. We now socially punish people for past acts that weren’t considered as socially unacceptable at the time they were committed as they are now. Black face and other racially insensitive acts are some examples but some of the non assault Metoo stuff come in that category as well. What used to be acceptable/tolerated behavior by society is now a career ender.

It makes me wonder what things we are all doing today that seems perfectly ok that will get us ridiculed and criticized decades from now.
 

Lursa

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While I do kind of get a kick out of all the media and politicians squirming in their seats over this guy and the picture I do want to be fair to him, as I'd hope others would be fair in different circumstances.

This picture was taken in 1984. That's 35 years ago and, frankly, a lifetime ago from a sociological perspective. Back then it wasn't uncommon to look at issues of race from a sarcastic perspective. We often made fun of racial issues as a way of pointing out the silliness of ever having had any real hatred. TV shows such as The Jeffersons, Benson, Different Strokes and The Cosby Show, among others, poked fun at racists. This episode of Saturday Night Live features Billy Crystal in blackface talking to Joe Piscopo. Does anyone really think Billy Crystal was doing that because he was a racist?

Times change. People change. Things we thought were funny or "cool" in one generation are often looked at with scorn in subsequent generations. It's just the way things go. It's also rather unfair to expect someone to look 35 years in the future and envision an act which is seen as relevant and provocative in the current time to be offensive in the later time.

There is plenty of reason to dislike Northam. His support of a vile "abortion" bill is enough. But the "racism" bit is, in my opinion, very much overblown. Unless the guy has a history of disenfranchising blacks it's rather unfair to use one picture from a generation ago to judge him today.

I was an adult in the 80s. We would have been horrified then to see anyone associate themselves with the KKK and clearly recognized the use of blackface as offensive.

So IMO your OP is singularly your opinion in an attempt to justify something not criminal, but absolutely indicative of racism.
 

SoCal

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Other than the abortion part, I agree.

I find this issue interesting. We now socially punish people for past acts that weren’t considered as socially unacceptable at the time they were committed as they are now. Black face and other racially insensitive acts are some examples but some of the non assault Metoo stuff come in that category as well. What used to be acceptable/tolerated behavior by society is now a career ender.

It makes me wonder what things we are all doing today that seems perfectly ok that will get us ridiculed and criticized decades from now.

You're confusing the 60's with the 80's.

No need to wonder, you can bet that about half of the current Repub policies will be ridiculed. Their stance on Putin, the LGBT community and the environment being on top of their long list...
 

Fletch

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Wow, over 35 years ago?? Those are the olden days when bigotry was excused and no one had knee-jerk reactions to overt racism.

Maybe the Repubs should try to recruit him, he'll find many more folks willing to excuse and overlook this...

Thanks for the simplistic knee-jerk response. The question is, should something like this destroy a mans career particularly when there is no evidence that this was indicative of his personality or something he has brought with him over the decades. If NOrtham had spend the last 20 years as a Klansman, then yeah, this pic was just foreshadowing his future. If he has been an upstanding guy with no hints of racism for the past 3 decades, then maybe this pic should be excused. No?
 

Rogue Valley

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I find it hard to buy that initially Northam apologized, and now he denies ever posing in blackface or a Klucker outfit.

Seems to me I would certainly remember if such an event occurred, even that many years ago. (provided I wasn't Kavanaugh drunk that is).
 

apdst

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Luther, I think Superfly’s comment was more of a (R) & (D) thing; speaking from my experiences with her here @ DP.

It was more of a troll up the thread thing.
 

apdst

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I find it hard to buy that initially Northam apologized, and now he denies ever posing in blackface or a Klucker outfit.

Seems to me I would certainly remember if such an event occurred, even that many years ago. (provided I wasn't Kavanaugh drunk that is).

For the sake of clarity, he said he doesn't recall posing for that picture.
 

Fletch

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I was an adult in the 80s. We would have been horrified then to see anyone associate themselves with the KKK and clearly recognized the use of blackface as offensive.

So IMO your OP is singularly your opinion in an attempt to justify something not criminal, but absolutely indicative of racism.

I was in college in '84 and am only a couple years younger than Northam and I dont think that sort of thing was really acceptable back then either. But then aain, I dont really trust my memory of the '80s that much.
 

Fletch

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For the sake of clarity, he said he doesn't recall posing for that picture.

Thats not believable. It was an important enough photo to include in his yearbook home page. He remembers it.
 

SoCal

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Thanks for the simplistic knee-jerk response. The question is, should something like this destroy a mans career particularly when there is no evidence that this was indicative of his personality or something he has brought with him over the decades. If NOrtham had spend the last 20 years as a Klansman, then yeah, this pic was just foreshadowing his future. If he has been an upstanding guy with no hints of racism for the past 3 decades, then maybe this pic should be excused. No?

It's inexcusable, period. I hope other cons take up your cause...

"Maybe the Repubs should try to recruit him, he'll find many more folks willing to excuse and overlook this..."
 

apdst

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Thats not believable. It was an important enough photo to include in his yearbook home page. He remembers it.

Agreed. I was correcting a false statement. You bet he remembers.
 

Amelia

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While I do kind of get a kick out of all the media and politicians squirming in their seats over this guy and the picture I do want to be fair to him, as I'd hope others would be fair in different circumstances.

This picture was taken in 1984. That's 35 years ago and, frankly, a lifetime ago from a sociological perspective. Back then it wasn't uncommon to look at issues of race from a sarcastic perspective. We often made fun of racial issues as a way of pointing out the silliness of ever having had any real hatred. TV shows such as The Jeffersons, Benson, Different Strokes and The Cosby Show, among others, poked fun at racists. This episode of Saturday Night Live features Billy Crystal in blackface talking to Joe Piscopo. Does anyone really think Billy Crystal was doing that because he was a racist?

Times change. People change. Things we thought were funny or "cool" in one generation are often looked at with scorn in subsequent generations. It's just the way things go. It's also rather unfair to expect someone to look 35 years in the future and envision an act which is seen as relevant and provocative in the current time to be offensive in the later time.

There is plenty of reason to dislike Northam. His support of a vile "abortion" bill is enough. But the "racism" bit is, in my opinion, very much overblown. Unless the guy has a history of disenfranchising blacks it's rather unfair to use one picture from a generation ago to judge him today.



Even if by some stretch of the imagination we accepted that it was okay to do this in the 1980's, the ship sailed for Northam when he admitted to doing it, apologized for doing it, but now wants some credit because now he's claiming there was no photograph taken when he did it ... or some other slippery excuse.

He knows its wrong and doesn't deny doing it but thinks he should be believed and absolved because he says that's not him in that particular picture.
 
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