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In 2006, every Democrat in the Senate voted AGAINST raising the debt ceiling

Politicians from both parties in both halves of Congress vote against measures that they know are going to pass all the time, so that they can make political hay out of their resistance to what they know either will happen or must happen. There are a number of meaningless procedural votes that happen regularly in the House that members will at times vote against so that they can increase the number of times they vote against their own leadership and thus portray themselves as independent thinkers to the voters back home.

This is meaningless.

Yep. All this does is show that EVERY side plays politics. Sadly, that shouldn't be news...but strangely to people on both ends it seems like it is. The amount of people Bitching, moaning, and acting petulant over the notion of one side "playing tricks" and acting like the other side is a shining virtue of honesty and reasonable actions is shocking at times. Politicians are politicians; all of them.
 
Was the debt ceiling raised? Did the Democrats filibuster?


Focus, focus.

People are focusing, on what the OP actually said. You're trying to get people to focus on other things because you attempted a strawman right off the bat and have been trying to focus on your little fake point since that moment.
 
It was the month of March and the final vote was 52-to-48, with all Democrats and a handful of Republicans voting "no." The debt limit was increased by $781 billion.
From Sen. Obama’s Floor Speech, March 20, 2006:
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that “the buck stops here.” Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."​

Read more:
In 2006, every Democrat in the Senate voted AGAINST raising the debt ceiling (Coralville Courier)

Imagine how Obama has evolved from that day in March 2006, especially now that he has raised the debt limit from $10 Trillion to $17 Trillion in 2013.

Terrorists & hostage takers, the lot of 'em.

Oh, forgot to add racist assholes...
 
They all vote in whatever manner they think will get them re-elected. There isn't any logic or common sense to it. They are political hacks doing what political hacks do. Best to just ignore them and let them do what they do. They have the power, we don't. We have the government we asked for.

I remember there was a popular song about what you just wrote. It was entitled "I Surrender Dear". There seems to be no fight in those words of yours. Whatever happened to the power of the People? Has the government become that powerful over the People and our Constitution?
 
It was the month of March and the final vote was 52-to-48, with all Democrats and a handful of Republicans voting "no." The debt limit was increased by $781 billion.
From Sen. Obama’s Floor Speech, March 20, 2006:

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that “the buck stops here.” Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."​

Read more:
In 2006, every Democrat in the Senate voted AGAINST raising the debt ceiling (Coralville Courier)

Imagine how Obama has evolved from that day in March 2006, especially now that he has raised the debt limit from $10 Trillion to $17 Trillion in 2013.

:caution: :alert you just exposed the President of the United States, also known as the Supreme Ruler of all! This can't end well.....
 
So the dems blocked the debt ceiling raise or just voted against it when their vote meant nothing?

If it was a pointless gesture, its an apples and oranges comparison.
Much like the GOP now. There is no question the debt ceiling will be raised again now. The comparison is valid in the light of reality. The question is as it was back then. How can the minority leverage the discussion and debate to include items in their agenda?
 
:caution: :alert you just exposed the President of the United States, also known as the Supreme Ruler of all! This can't end well.....

Yes, the Dept., of Homeland Security is coming down my driveway as I write this. They claim I'm a terrorist because I'm against the pain that Obama is inflicting against Americans. <Sarc>
 
Yes, the Dept., of Homeland Security is coming down my driveway as I write this. They claim I'm a terrorist because I'm against the pain that Obama is inflicting against Americans. <Sarc>

:lamo
 
When President Obama says he shouldn't have to negotiate he is saying that he doesn't want to pay for the costs he is imposing on the minority.

It's settled science. To avoid visiting injustice on the minority you must negotiate until they agree to go along.


Read more:
Articles: Obama's Shutdown and Public Choice Theory

Would Obama do this to the unions that he supports? Was this the same attitude Obama had as a Community Organizer?
Just a little more pain that he's inflicting upon the people.
 
I remember there was a popular song about what you just wrote. It was entitled "I Surrender Dear". There seems to be no fight in those words of yours. Whatever happened to the power of the People? Has the government become that powerful over the People and our Constitution?

Fair question. The people don't care. It is sad but true. I can't fix it myself so "I surrender, dear."
 
Actually, Democrats have threatened to hold the debt limit hostage

By BYRON YORK
JANUARY 14, 2013


Many Democratic lawmakers, from President Obama on down, have been on the defensive in the debt ceiling fight because in 2006 they themselves voted against raising the debt limit. Obama, Vice President Biden, Democratic Senate leadership Harry Reid, Dick Durbin, Charles Schumer, and Patty Murray — they all voted against it.

Today, Democrats and their partisans in the press argue that while those votes were political posturing, they weren’t really serious because Democrats were the minority party in the Senate in 2006 and could not have blocked a debt ceiling increase, leading to serious financial consequences for the country.

[Excerpt]

Read more:
Actually, Democrats have threatened to hold the debt limit hostage | WashingtonExaminer.com

It's all politics and when the Left is called on it their only option is to deny, and deny it some again hoping someone will eventually believe their lies. It's like trust me you won't have to spend a dime more for you Health care insurance. "If you like you Doctor you can keep him", the checks in the mail, and I'll respect you in the morning.

The title is misleading.

As the dems were in the minority, they were functionally incapable of holding anything "hostage".
 
I love how hard this thread is trying to condone the hostage taking by the GOP. It's almost as if the conservatives have a guilty conscience. But that can't be.
 
Fair question. The people don't care. It is sad but true. I can't fix it myself so "I surrender, dear."


With logic like that, King George and the British would have won the Revolution. Taking it further, if we had the same feelings after December 7, 1941, everything West of the Mississippi would be dominated by the Japanese and everything East of Mississippi would be dominated by the Nazi's.
 
The title is misleading.

As the dems were in the minority, they were functionally incapable of holding anything "hostage".

Hmm..., then why is it that Harry Reid majority Leader in the Senate has killed any Federal Budgets by Congress in the Senate?
 
Timeline Of Senate Democrats

There weren't any Budgets passed by the Hostage taking Democrats in the Senate. None even mentioned Obamacare. Only continued resolutions have been allowed by Harry Reid and his gang since 2009.

So you're against what the GOP is doing now, or for it?

You got your memes all mixed up.
 
here are three of the senates votes during the Bush II years.

Year Dem for Dem against Rep for Rep against
2003 3 45 50 1
2004 2 46 50 1
2006 0 44 52 3

It is easy to see whether or not either of the political parties are for or against raising the debt ceiling, all depends whether or not the president is of their party. note that during the Bush II years the republicans were all in favor of raising it.

now during the Obama years, each party has done a 180. You can bet if a Republican wins the White House in 2016, in 2017 it will be the Republicans back in favor of raising the debt ceiling and the Democrats totally against.

While I generally agree with this I think it should be noted that THIS time Republicans actually are not against raising the debt (at least that I have seen). They are just holding out to get a rider added to it in order to achieve an agenda.
 
No, there was a war in Iraq and they wanted starve the beast.

So we finally have an admission by pbauer. The truth finally is revealed. But it's wrong to starve this onerous beast?
 
While I generally agree with this I think it should be noted that THIS time Republicans actually are not against raising the debt (at least that I have seen). They are just holding out to get a rider added to it in order to achieve an agenda.

yeah, it very well could be. Boehner has been quoted he won't let the country default. Time will tell.
 
The Great Bush Recession has caused a great shortfall in FIT and payroll taxes. That alone has added the debt.



On Deficit And Recession


President George W. Bush and the Republican Congress he worked with, added nearly $5 trillion to the national debt during his first six fiscal years. Members of The Rational Middle will not be surprised to read that statement. Bush’s doubling of the debt is not the reason for the Great Recession. Perhaps that statement is a surprise. A singular fact of economics needs to be understood by the citizens of this democracy, and that knowledge is needed now more than ever: budget deficits do not cause recessions.

Throughout this recession and recovery, the fact that budget deficits have nothing to do with recessions has been consistently ignored by those that do understand. Linking the two items has political benefits for both sides of our rusted two party system. Democrats were able to hammer Bush for his war spending and top heavy tax cuts, Republicans are able to hammer Obama and the Democrats for social and infrastructure spending. The Tea Party is able to lash out in anger at everyone, because the political figures in that group lack even the most basic knowledge of anything fiscal.

So what does cause a recession? I know you hate economics, but this is simple stuff. Recessions happen when there isn’t enough money to go around. There are two processes that cause there to be a lack of cash;
1.Inflation-This is a little tricky; there isn’t enough cash because prices have increased faster than normal wage growth. It is tricky because the situation is actually created by the presence of too much cash in an economy running at or near full capacity. Lots of deficit spending, over a long time, can cause inflation when the economy gets back to full steam…if it isn’t managed properly.
2.Loss of Demand-This is the vicious circle (and the cause of our last two recessions…the big one and the shorter one around the turn of the century). Cash leaves the economy; people stop patronizing businesses; business responds by trimming cost (usually by cutting payroll); the unemployed spend even less; more businesses respond by trimming more payroll…and so on. The bursting of an asset bubble like technology stocks or houses, or the presence of a cash-draining trade deficit, are both capable of stealing enough demand from an economy to send it into recession.​

It is important to understand these causes because then the citizen is prepared to understand what steps a government can take that may lead to recession, and what steps they can take to get out of recession. Currently, most citizens and the media they get their information from, take it as gospel that balanced budgets are the key to getting and staying out of recessions. They define a government as having a balanced budget when it takes in as much in tax revenue as it pays out in the form of services. They further link that to the idea that such “fiscal discipline” is the key to all successful businesses and homes. I do enjoy a good fairy tale, but this is a serious subject. How many of you know someone that does not have more currently borrowed than they earn in a year? How many people do you know whose borrowing expense is not their largest annual cost? For businesses, the example is possibly more stark.

Lets be clear on this, as a professional manager with a career spent pinching pennies, I take my fiscal discipline seriously. But I reject the notion that balanced budgets, in the current political definition, have anything to do with the success of a business or an economy. In fact, that definition of fiscal discipline doesn’t have anything to do with the reality of business. Almost all businesses use debt to start, maintain, and grow. Fiscal discipline in the business sense means ensuring the future cash flows can service the interest on debt along with current period obligations. But businesses that stop investing in their infrastructure and their future die…period.

Think of the U.S. corporate model and U.S. industry competitiveness. The CEO’s of U.S. businesses have spent decades now using lay-offs, “downsizing”, and “force reduction” to make their earnings reports look nice for Wall Street. The resulting loss of heuristic knowledge and team spirit has allowed the rest of the world to overtake American business…and take over the customers formerly serviced by American business. A similar process has been at work during America’s thirty year orgy of tax cutting; U.S. education and commercial infrastructure (roads, locks, dams, ports, electrical grids) have fallen by the wayside. Has the education your child can receive gotten better since 1980? Has your ability to move you or your products around the city in which you live gotten better during that time?

What has improved in thirty years has been corporate earnings and the Dow Jones Industrial, neither of which have anything to do with keeping us out of recessions. Wall Street has been on a tear for the last two years, how has your personal economy improved? Wall Street was moving along just fine for the first year of the recession, how did you do from early 2007 through to the summer of 2008?

If everyone agrees that raising taxes during a recovery is a good way to kill it, then why is it a good idea to cut state, federal, or municipal jobs? Killing jobs takes far more money out of the economy than raising taxes by a couple of points…it isn’t opinion, it is a fact. The forgotten fact about government spending that isn’t defense related, is that most of it is spent in the domestic economy. The deficits that most states are facing are not the results of massive spending increases, they are because of massive shortfalls in revenue. All of those government workers (you know, those evil police officers, firefighters, snowplow drivers, teachers, engineers, and judges) spend their salaries in the communities they live in. Such spending also serves to build and maintain the commercial infrastructure that the rest of us use to make money. Killing jobs in a recession or recovery makes even less economic sense than raising taxes.

A government can cause a recession by failing to invest enough in our infrastructure (physical or human); as happened in the Bush Administration. A government can cause a recession by failing to keep markets and their greed (both necessary) from getting out of hand; as happened in every administration from Reagan to Bush (yes friends, including Clinton). All of the fervor of the incoming Republican House leadership is only the tip of the fiscal insanity iceberg. Like icebergs, most of the danger lies below, hidden in the minds of good citizens who don’t know enough about the economy they live and work in. All dangerous themes in politics arise from good intentions run amok. It is time we the people recognized the boundaries of this good intention.

Read more:
On Deficit And Recession | The Rational Middle

Thought this might cut your corns by placing the blame where it does belong. If Obama was the CEO of a Fortune 500 Company and ran the company as he's run America for the past 4 years and 9 months, he would have been asked to leave last year. However, we all know the help he has received by the MSM and Leftist of this country to hide and mask his errors in judgment and shooting from the lip.
 
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Thought this might cut your corns by placing the blame where it does belong. If Obama was the CEO of a Fortune 500 Company and ran the company as he's run America for the past 4 years and 9 months, he would have been asked to leave last year.]


CEOs get millions of dollars in raises when they run a company badly. That's how most GOP politicians made their money. You must be confusing Wall Street with a meritocracy. Bad mistake.
 
Thought this might cut your corns by placing the blame where it does belong. If Obama was the CEO of a Fortune 500 Company and ran the company as he's run America for the past 4 years and 9 months, he would have been asked to leave last year. However, we all know the help he has received by the MSM and Leftist of this country to hide and mask his errors in judgment and shooting from the lip.
What a load of crap! Countries are not run like a Fortune 500 company. When will the idiotic right stop blaming the MSM for their own failure? Take responsibility, you know, like what you guys always preach.
 
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