Immigration & Wage Suppression (1 Viewer)

[Gill]

Re: Wages & Hoopla

Wages are not "considerably" higher now than they were when Bush took office. Earnings in real 1982 dollars were $274.39/week in December of 2000. In March of 2006, weekly earnings were $276.33. That's a total 5-year increase of only 0.7% (not to mention the 1.3% decline since December of 2002.)

Furthermore, in the 5 years from January 1996 through December 2000, weekly wages rose from $256.06 to $274.39, or 7.2%. Again, contrast this with less than 1% under Bush. What's worse, the wage increases are due exclusively to increases in the high income categories. An overwhelming majority of Americans have seen their real wages decline since Bush first took office.

Well, I would consider $277.37 to be higher than $262.67, wouldn't you? These numbers are the average of Clinton's presidency vs the average of Bush's.

By the way, nice job of cherry picking the numbers you chose to present. Why did you start Clinton's numbers in 1996? Was it because the previous years were so dismal?

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Re: Wages & Hoopla

Well, I would consider $277.37 to be higher than $262.67, wouldn't you? These numbers are the average of Clinton's presidency vs the average of Bush's.

By the way, nice job of cherry picking the numbers you chose to present. Why did you start Clinton's numbers in 1996? Was it because the previous years were so dismal?

Actually, as I have posted and sourced with the governments own numbers, median wages increased every year of the Clinton Administration, and they have declined every year of the Bush Administration:

Income is in 2004 CPI-U-RS adjusted dollars. These are the latest stats availiable. 2005 stats should be out soon. However, its already being reported that median wage growth was flat for 2005 as well.

Median Household Income Decline under Bush:

Median Household Income in 2004: $44,389
Median Household Income in 2003: $44,482
Median Household Income in 2002: $45,062
Median Household Income in 2001: $46,058


Median Household Income Increase under Clinton:

Median Household Income in 2000: $46,129
Median Household Income in 1999: $45,003
Median Household Income in 1998: $43,430
Median Household Income in 1997: $42,545
Median Household Income in 1996: $41,943
Median Household Income in 1995: $40,677
Median Household Income in 1994: $40,217
Median Household Income in 1993: $40,422

Source: http://www.census.gov/prod/2005pubs/p60-229.pdf

Employment Rate under Bush:

2001: 4.7%
2002: 5.8%
2003: 6.0%
2004: 5.5%

Employment Rate under Clinton:

1993: 6.9%
1994: 6.1%
1995: 5.6%
1996: 5.4%
1997: 4.9%
1998: 4.5%
1999: 4.2%
2000: 4.0%

Source: http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat1.pdf

Poverty Rate under Bush:
2001: 11.7%
2002: 12.1%
2003: 12.5%
2004: 12.7%

Poverty Rate under Clinton:

1993: 15.1%
1994: 14.5%
1995: 13.8%
1996: 13.7%
1997: 13.3%
1998: 12.7%
1999: 11.9%
2000: 11.3%

Source: http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/histpov/hstpov2.html

Ok, so let’s look at these numbers.

First off, I used median income growth instead of average income growth. The reason for this is median income growth reflects income growth in the middle class. Average income growth just reflects income growth in general. CEOs earning 400 times the amount the average worker earns tends to skew the average income growth numbers.
From the first list of numbers we can determine that real Middle Class income grew every year under Clinton Administration and has declined every year under Bush.

In the second table I listed the employment rate. Unfortunately, the newest year over year employment rates that we have currently only extend through 2004. You will notice that unemployment rate declined every year under the Clinton Administration. It rose under the Bush Administration then declined in 2003 and 2004. I would suspect that once last years numbers come in, they will be around 4.4% or so. While that is a great employment rate, it still does not match the Clinton record. Moreover, when median incomes are taken into account, better jobs were available to more people in the nineties than what are available today.

Finally I provided the poverty rates under Clinton and Bush. You will notice that the poverty rate declined every single year under the Clinton Administration and has risen every single year under than Bush Administration.

Don’t get me wrong, the economy today is pretty good. However, it has nothing on the nineties.

 

[Gill]

My reply was to unlawful combatant about the figures he posted. My data is correct based on the link he provided.

In the second table I listed the employment rate. Unfortunately, the newest year over year employment rates that we have currently only extend through 2004.

You obviously didn't look to closely at your own link. Unemployment figures ARE posted for 2005 and were 5.1%. The current unemployment rate is 4.7%.

More cherry picking.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

My reply was to unlawful combatant about the figures he posted. My data is correct based on the link he provided.


You obviously didn't look to closely at your own link. Unemployment figures ARE posted for 2005 and were 5.1%. The current unemployment rate is 4.7%.

More cherry picking.

Does not change my original point at all. Median wages increased every year under Clinton, and they have decreased every year under Bush. The poverty rate decreased every year under Clinton and it has increased every year under Bush. No cherry picking there. The unemployment rate today is still not as low as the lowest point it reached under the Clinton Administration. No cherry picking there.

 

[Stinger]

Live within your means.

Easier done when I don't have to supply to means to other people.

If that is true then deporting every illegal will not raise vegatable prices up that much.

It is true and it is true. Domestic help is even lower along with resturaunts.

Close the borders.
Issue tamperproof ID's.
Require employers to verifiy them and report the ID number.
Require SS to alert law enforcement of phoney SS numbers and ID numbers.
Require all law enforcement to detain illegals we find and set up deportation camps to put them in.
Make it a crime to knowingly hire illegals, warnings first, penalties later.

The number of illegals will go down due to fewer jobs available because the employers fear hiring them and they are being deported when found.

It's a start.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Easier done when I don't have to supply to means to other people.



It is true and it is true. Domestic help is even lower along with resturaunts.

Close the borders.
Issue tamperproof ID's.
Require employers to verifiy them and report the ID number.
Require SS to alert law enforcement of phoney SS numbers and ID numbers.
Require all law enforcement to detain illegals we find and set up deportation camps to put them in.
Make it a crime to knowingly hire illegals, warnings first, penalties later.

The number of illegals will go down due to fewer jobs available because the employers fear hiring them and they are being deported when found.

It's a start.

I cant see how anyone could disagree with that.

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

Easier done when I don't have to supply to means to other people.



It is true and it is true. Domestic help is even lower along with resturaunts.

Close the borders.
Issue tamperproof ID's.
Require employers to verifiy them and report the ID number.
Require SS to alert law enforcement of phoney SS numbers and ID numbers.
Require all law enforcement to detain illegals we find and set up deportation camps to put them in.
Make it a crime to knowingly hire illegals, warnings first, penalties later.

The number of illegals will go down due to fewer jobs available because the employers fear hiring them and they are being deported when found.

It's a start.

That's the road to travel, and the whores the GOP hires to speak for them claim that this simple solution is "extremist".

Only a fool votes GOP. (And only a fool's fool votes Democrat)

 

[unlawflcombatnt]

Close the borders.
Issue tamperproof ID's.
Require employers to verifiy them and report the ID number.
Require SS to alert law enforcement of phoney SS numbers and ID numbers.
Require all law enforcement to detain illegals we find and set up deportation camps to put them in.
Make it a crime to knowingly hire illegals, warnings first, penalties later.

The number of illegals will go down due to fewer jobs available because the employers fear hiring them and they are being deported when found.

It's a start.

That's far more than a start. That's pretty much the entire solution. Prosecute the employers who hire illegal immigrants and force them to verify that their workers are legal.

 

[Gill]

That's the road to travel, and the whores the GOP hires to speak for them claim that this simple solution is "extremist".

Only a fool votes GOP. (And only a fool's fool votes Democrat)

You have this bass ackwards... it is the Democrats that are opposing these methods of slowing down illegal immigration.

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

You have this bass ackwards... it is the Democrats that are opposing these methods of slowing down illegal immigration.

No, the bass in is in the White House, aided and abetted by Republican Congressmen in Southern California who're acting against any form of re-patriation for the invading hordes. David Dreier, for example.

Dana Rohrbacher did an interview on KFI's John and Ken Show that was in essence what I said, that people seeking to cut the invasion off at the source, by going after the employers, was an impractical right wing fanatic.

 

[Gill]

No, the bass in is in the White House,

OK, explain Bush's immigration policy and how it differs from what Stinger posted.

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

OK, explain Bush's immigration policy and how it differs from what Stinger posted.

Bush originally posited amnesty for the invaders. He's getting his butt wupped in the polls, so now he's advocating amnesty for the invaders but says they'll have to get in the back of the bus...

Bushie Boy didn't say he'd put the employers in jail, fine them, or even let them enjoy a little flagellation.

Nor did he say that anyone applying for a work visa MUST apply in the nation of origin. In fact, he's said nothing about walls, enforcing existing laws, re-imbursing state and local governments for the failure of federal policy, or anything.

Bushie's made a speech trying to cover his rear. Nothing else. It's full of horsehit and happy words. Saps can fall for it. I see there's going to be a lot of syrup made this fall.

 

[Gill]

Bush originally posited amnesty for the invaders. He's getting his butt wupped in the polls, so now he's advocating amnesty for the invaders but says they'll have to get in the back of the bus...

Bushie Boy didn't say he'd put the employers in jail, fine them, or even let them enjoy a little flagellation.

Nor did he say that anyone applying for a work visa MUST apply in the nation of origin. In fact, he's said nothing about walls, enforcing existing laws, re-imbursing state and local governments for the failure of federal policy, or anything.

Bushie's made a speech trying to cover his rear. Nothing else. It's full of horsehit and happy words. Saps can fall for it. I see there's going to be a lot of syrup made this fall.

Following is Bush's official policy:

The First Element Is Securing Our Border.
The Second Element Is Strengthening Enforcement Of Our Laws In The Interior Of Our Country.
The Third Element Is Creating A New Temporary Worker Program That Would Not Provide Amnesty.

Get your facts straight before posting false information.

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

Following is Bush's official policy:


Get your facts straight before posting false information.

I've got my fact straight.

Bushie Says:

The First Element Is Securing Our Border.

Bush claims he wants a secure border, yet never insists on doing anything to make it so. There's nothing in any budget reflecting any serious consideration of improving border security.

Fact: Bush is lying.

Bushie Says:

The Second Element Is Strengthening Enforcement Of Our Laws In The Interior Of Our Country.

But no real efforts are being made to track, arrest, and punish the invaders inside the borders. Bushie hisself says that deportation is not an option. Which of course, it is. Right now, on the corner of Manhattan Beach Blvd and Inglewood Avenue in Redondo Beach there's two dozen or more invaders loitering. They could be arrested and deported.

Enforcing this simple law would deter the hell out of loitering invaders everywhere and stir panic in the invader communities. The Republican congressmen, specifically David Liar Dreier, orders Assa Hutchingson, of Impeachment fame, another Republican, who was the second in command of the Fatherland Security Department, to halt all such sweeps to calm down the invading hordes and smooth the political waters. This happened three years ago.

Fact: The Republican OPPOSE enforcing immigration law.


Bushie Says:

The Third Element Is Creating A New Temporary Worker Program That Would Not Provide Amnesty

Yeah, it's a fact that he keeps saying that it's not an amnesty program.

Question: If you call a dog's tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have?

Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg. Denying that an amnesty program isn't an amnesty program doesn't mean it's not an amnesty program.

The only way to make it not an amnesty program is to require that no applications for "guest worker" visas will be accepted at immigration inside CONUS, that all such applications must be made in person in the applicants nation of origin. All such applicants must be fingerprinted and photographed, and a thorough search of US criminal records must be made to see if any applicants had been caught in criminal activity in the US. This includes the database of those fish caught and released.

"Guest worker" implies the worker won't be here forever. That requires a bureaucracy to register and track them and to arrest them and deport them when their time is up. To be effecitve, this process cannot be blocked by the courts. But Bushie doesn't think wholesale deportation is practical.

Fact: No "guest worker" program offered up so far details how our guests will know when their welcome is up, and how they will be returned home.

No, my facts are straight. I'm just not a kiss-rectum republican apologist eager to sell my country out to the invading hordes just to win an election.

 

[jamesrage]

Following is Bush's official policy:


Get your facts straight before posting false information.

Bush is the same as Janet Napolitano,they say they want to do something about the illegal alien menace,but they do not do anything.


Here is a clue that Bush is not going to do any thing about illegal aliens.When anyone refers to illegal aliens as "undocumented workers" or "undocumented immigrints",they are not going to do **** about illegal aliens except to encourage more to come over.

 

[unlawflcombatnt]

I've got my fact straight.

Bushie Says:

Bush claims he wants a secure border, yet never insists on doing anything to make it so. There's nothing in any budget reflecting any serious consideration of improving border security.

Fact: Bush is lying.

Bushie Says:

But no real efforts are being made to track, arrest, and punish the invaders inside the borders. Bushie hisself says that deportation is not an option. Which of course, it is. Right now, on the corner of Manhattan Beach Blvd and Inglewood Avenue in Redondo Beach there's two dozen or more invaders loitering. They could be arrested and deported.

Enforcing this simple law would deter the hell out of loitering invaders everywhere and stir panic in the invader communities. The Republican congressmen, specifically David Liar Dreier, orders Assa Hutchingson, of Impeachment fame, another Republican, who was the second in command of the Fatherland Security Department, to halt all such sweeps to calm down the invading hordes and smooth the political waters. This happened three years ago.

Fact: The Republican OPPOSE enforcing immigration law.


Bushie Says:

Yeah, it's a fact that he keeps saying that it's not an amnesty program.

Question: If you call a dog's tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have?

Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg. Denying that an amnesty program isn't an amnesty program doesn't mean it's not an amnesty program.

The only way to make it not an amnesty program is to require that no applications for "guest worker" visas will be accepted at immigration inside CONUS, that all such applications must be made in person in the applicants nation of origin. All such applicants must be fingerprinted and photographed, and a thorough search of US criminal records must be made to see if any applicants had been caught in criminal activity in the US. This includes the database of those fish caught and released.

"Guest worker" implies the worker won't be here forever. That requires a bureaucracy to register and track them and to arrest them and deport them when their time is up. To be effecitve, this process cannot be blocked by the courts. But Bushie doesn't think wholesale deportation is practical.

Fact: No "guest worker" program offered up so far details how our guests will know when their welcome is up, and how they will be returned home.

No, my facts are straight. I'm just not a kiss-rectum republican apologist eager to sell my country out to the invading hordes just to win an election.

I think you've got your facts straight. They're the same ones I'm using. Especially about Liar Dreier.

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

I think you've got your facts straight. They're the same ones I'm using. Especially about Liar Dreier.

Nothing pisses me off more than when I finally get to watch someone whack a hornets nest with a stick, and the bees are getting all riled up, and then the bees mother comes along and takes the kid's stick away. The bees go back to undermining the tree, and the kid gets punished.

The metaphor might be a little mixed, but the Mexicans surely were riled up and scared over the arrest of just a few, a very small handful of invaders that summer, and the Bush Administration and the Republicans ordered it to halt.

That's the A-Number One reason the traitors in the GOP didn't get any votes from me since then. There truly is NO DIFFERENCE at all between Republicans and Democrats.

 

[Gill]

I've got my fact straight.

Bushie Says:

Bush claims he wants a secure border, yet never insists on doing anything to make it so. There's nothing in any budget reflecting any serious consideration of improving border security.

Fact: Bush is lying.

Bushie Says:

But no real efforts are being made to track, arrest, and punish the invaders inside the borders. Bushie hisself says that deportation is not an option. Which of course, it is. Right now, on the corner of Manhattan Beach Blvd and Inglewood Avenue in Redondo Beach there's two dozen or more invaders loitering. They could be arrested and deported.

Enforcing this simple law would deter the hell out of loitering invaders everywhere and stir panic in the invader communities. The Republican congressmen, specifically David Liar Dreier, orders Assa Hutchingson, of Impeachment fame, another Republican, who was the second in command of the Fatherland Security Department, to halt all such sweeps to calm down the invading hordes and smooth the political waters. This happened three years ago.

Fact: The Republican OPPOSE enforcing immigration law.


Bushie Says:

Yeah, it's a fact that he keeps saying that it's not an amnesty program.

Question: If you call a dog's tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have?

Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg. Denying that an amnesty program isn't an amnesty program doesn't mean it's not an amnesty program.

The only way to make it not an amnesty program is to require that no applications for "guest worker" visas will be accepted at immigration inside CONUS, that all such applications must be made in person in the applicants nation of origin. All such applicants must be fingerprinted and photographed, and a thorough search of US criminal records must be made to see if any applicants had been caught in criminal activity in the US. This includes the database of those fish caught and released.

"Guest worker" implies the worker won't be here forever. That requires a bureaucracy to register and track them and to arrest them and deport them when their time is up. To be effecitve, this process cannot be blocked by the courts. But Bushie doesn't think wholesale deportation is practical.

Fact: No "guest worker" program offered up so far details how our guests will know when their welcome is up, and how they will be returned home.

No, my facts are straight. I'm just not a kiss-rectum republican apologist eager to sell my country out to the invading hordes just to win an election.

If your goal is to deport all illegal immigrants, they you will be sadly disappointed because it ain't going to happen. First of all, it is impractical to do and secondly, the Democrats and the ACLU wouldn't allow it.

NO one in Congress, the White House or in the Federal Court System is pushing for deportation except for a tiny number of Representatives.

Get over it.

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

If your goal is to deport all illegal immigrants, they you will be sadly disappointed because it ain't going to happen. First of all, it is impractical to do and secondly, the Democrats and the ACLU wouldn't allow it.

NO one in Congress, the White House or in the Federal Court System is pushing for deportation except for a tiny number of Representatives.

Get over it.

I guess you can't figure what those people will do when we start putting their employers in jail?

Get over it, some people live their whole lives without any clue at all.

 

[Gill]

I guess you can't figure what those people will do when we start putting their employers in jail?

Get over it, some people live their whole lives without any clue at all.

A law has been on the books for almost 20 years making it a federal crime to hire illegal alliens and it hasn't stopped them yet.

After reading comments in this thread, I agree that many live their lives without a clue.

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

A law has been on the books for almost 20 years making it a federal crime to hire illegal alliens and it hasn't stopped them yet.

After reading comments in this thread, I agree that many live their lives without a clue.

Yes, Republicans and Democrats pass laws to make stupid people think something is being done, and then ignore the laws. People that vote for either major party are absolutely clueless, it's true.

Which party do you support, again?