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This is going to spiral out of control and ICE are going to get hurt.
See post #95.View attachment 67585084
$35 at Spirit Halloween stores. Numerous “police” and other versions available.
"I'm not sweating, you are!" Declared the frog in the middle of the slowly boiling pot.If we were actually living in a fascist state, you wouldn't be posting about it on a public internet site. Or if you did, you wouldn't be doing it for very long. The reality is that you're willing make these statements for one simple reason: you feel safe making them because you know your rights will be protected.
A begging the question fallacy will not help your argument. That man's rights were not violated.If being against the State
Violating the rights of the people makes me wrong then I don’t want to be right.
You and I are both obligated to follow police orders unless we have good reason to believe the order is unlawful. If you don't understand that you have no idea what you're talking about here.Yes they do.
Which country do you live in? One where you are free or where you are a subject?
No, I get the sense you have prejudice against all law enforcement, and you're demonstrating that in this thread.I only have prejudice against masked thugs.
"Rightfully flee their aggression?" Given what we know about this situation, that can only be labeled ridiculous. Unless new facts come to light, the driver of that car should either be deported or placed in jail.If they operated as actual law enforcement instead of as a goon squad harassing people and firing their weapons when people rightfully flee their aggression… then there would be no problem.
if that was true this forum would be heavily moderated or shut down and many in jail for talking about the govt
No Im saying its not a dictatorshipSo your argument is that there is no authoritarianism, unless it's against everyone in every area. How ridiculous. Perhaps next protest they could shoot half the protesters then point to the other half to say 'it this was authoritarianism, the other half would be shot'.
They 100% were.A begging the question fallacy will not help your argument. That man's rights were not violated.
How does one know if they have authority if they refuse to identify themselves or even present a warrant?You and I are both obligated to follow police orders unless we have good reason to believe the order is unlawful. If you don't understand that you have no idea what you're talking about here.
Any law enforcement that does not infringe upon people’s rights is cool in my book.No, I get the sense you have prejudice against all law enforcement, and you're demonstrating that in this thread.
Yeah… rightfully flee their aggression.Rightfully flee their aggression?" Given what we know about this situation, that can only be labeled ridiculous. Unless new facts come to light, the driver of that car should either be deported or placed in jail.
They probably had it coming.From inside the truck, the young man shook his head as federal immigration officers banged on the door and his father repeatedly said in Spanish, "Don't open it."
"Francisco! Roll down the window!" one agent said, addressing the father, who was in the driver's seat.
Another officer smashed the window, shattering it, and Francisco sped away, as three bangs that sounded like gunshots rang out.
If this is true, for all you immigration folks, is this ok with you?
So one window was smashed and then the cops claim he was trying to run them over. Wanna' bet no body cam video shows any such thing, if we even see a video from the goon squad? No proof of who they were, no warrant, just threats and force being used without proper procedure or by following the law. This is the gop's idea of law and order.
Immigration officer fires shots at vehicle with people inside in San Bernardino operation
A Customs and Border Protection officer fired at a vehicle in San Bernardino on Saturday, which the Department of Homeland Security said was "self-defense" after a suspect allegedly drove his truck at officerswww.yahoo.com
See post #95.
Correct, that is the law. One must obey a police order. If later it's discovered the order was unlawful, then there is an opportunity for redress. As someone receiving the order you don't get to decide whether that order is lawful or not in the moment. Your legal obligation is to follow it
Sorry, beyond announcing who they are, police are under no obligation to prove to your satisfaction their gear and badges are legit
Nope, that is fantasy. They were not.They 100% were.
Was the warrant meant to be passed through the window the driver would not open?No warrant presented, refusal to identify, destruction of property, violent force used when he fled.
You don't have the authority to refuse a police order, period. You need evidence that those giving the order are not police or that they're order is unlawful. Based on the video, that was not the case in this instance.How does one know if they have authority if they refuse to identify themselves or even present a warrant?
There was absolutely no reason to believe those surrounding the car were anything other than law enforcement. Furthermore, was there any evidence on that video the driver didn't know who they were?Any law enforcement that does not infringe upon people’s rights is cool in my book.
Yeah… rightfully flee their aggression.
Masked men approach a vehicle and order you to get out and when you don’t they break your window… do you flee or do you stay?
There is absolutely no evidence this was anything bug a lawful order from an actual officer. In fact, that it was such an order is the likely reason the driver decided to flee, endangering everyone at the scene in the process, both those inside and outside of the car.The obligation is to obey a LAWFUL order from an actual officer.
In which country does law enforcement approach people wearing masks and demand compliance without identifying themselves, showing their credentials or at the very least a warrant?Nope, that is fantasy. They were not.
They didn’t even attempt to show it.Was the warrant meant to be passed through the window the driver would not open?
If you are pulled over by police you can ask the police for their name and badge number and they have to provide it.You simply do not understand the relevant law here. When you're pulled over by police, they do not need to show a warrant to ask you to leave the car. They only need probable cause.
How does one know if they are police with that authority if they are masked and refuse to identify themselves?You don't have the authority to refuse a police order, period. You need evidence that those giving the order are not police or that their order is unlawful. Based on the video, that was not the case in this instance.
Looks like to me that there were a bunch of masked men surrounding the car.There was absolutely no reason to believe those surrounding the car were anything other than law enforcement. Furthermore, was there any evidence on that video the driver didn't know who they were?
I can count on one hand the times I’ve had to interact with LEO. The more you fly straight the less you have to worry about them.Yeah. I agree that it stupid to live in a country where law enforcement refuses to identify themselves.
That is such a good observation about their being a truck parked in front of the car:This does not appear to have been a random traffic stop so HSI/ICE most likely had some idea who these people were. Based on the video from a "news" broadcast that appears to be HIGHLY biased, there were 2 cops on the passenger side of the truck and, because the truck was blocked in, that is the only direction a fleeing driver could have gone which means that it's quite likely that the truck turned into at least two cops. If that's the way it went down then the gunshots were justified.
Once again, we have a narrative ONLY from the anti-enforcement side and our local left wingers have chosen to promote with as much hatred and venom as they can muster. Will they reconsider their position as other evidence comes out? Not likely.
If one allows tyranny because it won’t affect me…. Then they are no better than the tyrants.I can count on one hand the times I’ve had to interact with LEO. The more you fly straight the less you have to worry about them.
Even if it were not true; they are onboard with it.From inside the truck, the young man shook his head as federal immigration officers banged on the door and his father repeatedly said in Spanish, "Don't open it."
"Francisco! Roll down the window!" one agent said, addressing the father, who was in the driver's seat.
Another officer smashed the window, shattering it, and Francisco sped away, as three bangs that sounded like gunshots rang out.
If this is true, for all you immigration folks, is this ok with you?
So one window was smashed and then the cops claim he was trying to run them over. Wanna' bet no body cam video shows any such thing, if we even see a video from the goon squad? No proof of who they were, no warrant, just threats and force being used without proper procedure or by following the law. This is the gop's idea of law and order.
Immigration officer fires shots at vehicle with people inside in San Bernardino operation
A Customs and Border Protection officer fired at a vehicle in San Bernardino on Saturday, which the Department of Homeland Security said was "self-defense" after a suspect allegedly drove his truck at officerswww.yahoo.com
You're saying what I said you said. Why are you denying what you said? What was your argument WHY it's not a dictatorship?No Im saying its not a dictatorship
It's arguably the fundamental issue in establishing tyranny.If one allows tyranny because it won’t affect me…. Then they are no better than the tyrants.
Why did they not comply?
There is absolutely no evidence this was anything bug a lawful order from an actual officer. In fact, that it was such an order is the likely reason the driver decided to flee, endangering everyone at the scene in the process, both those inside and outside of the car.
Sorry, that's childish nonsense. As was evidenced by events, officers had a right to fear for their safety.In which country does law enforcement approach people wearing masks and demand compliance without identifying themselves, showing their credentials or at the very least a warrant?
Not a free one.
They didn't need to. What are you not getting?They didn’t even attempt to show it.
Did the driver ask that question? I don't think so. He simply told his son not to follow a police order and then fled the scene.Probably because they didn’t have one… because when they went to his house they didn’t not compel him to leave in custody which they could have done if they had a warrant.
If you are pulled over by police you can ask the police for their name and badge number and they have to provide it.
One doesn't, which is why one must follow a police order unless you know there is a reason not to.These goons do none of that.
How does one know if they are police with that authority if they are masked and refuse to identify themselves?
Then you too would be facing charges.Looks like to me that there were a bunch of masked men surrounding the car.
I wouldn’t stick around to see what they want with me.
Oh well, no counterargument. (Though I wasn't expecting one, to be honest.)
Oh well.
I’ve learned not to even bother with arguing against MAGA bullshit.Oh well, no counterargument. (Though I wasn't expecting one, to be honest.)
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