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Immigration and refugees - Lie detector test?

Lie detector test for immigrants/refugees?

  • Plan to vote Trump - Support the idea, this would satisfy me on Muslim immigration.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Dont plan to vote Trump - Support the idea, this would satisfy me on Muslim immigration.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Dont plan to vote Trump - Support the idea, would not satisfy me on Muslim immigration.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    21

Deuce

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A colleague of mine is a Trump supporter, and like many such people support's Trumps pledge to halt Muslim immigration "until the vetting process can be sorted out." Unlike most Trump supporters, he didn't dodge the question when I asked what would satisfy that requirement. He wants them to submit to a lie detector test as part of the interviewing process.

This struck me as too easy. Surely Trump's supporters were looking for more than such a simple fix. Plus, this particular Likely Trump Voter isn't what I would call a "typical" Trump supporter, ("I wish he'd be more politically correct.") so I figured I'd toss this idea out here on DP and see whether this is something that would resolve the concerns on the issue. If it really is that simple, this is far less of an issue than I thought.

So, would that be enough, or would you want more?

Plan to vote Trump - Support the idea and this would satisfy me on Muslim immigration
Plan to vote Trump - Suppport the idea but this would not satisfy me on Muslim immigration
Plan to vote Trump - Oppose the idea.
Not voting Trump - Support the idea, satisfies me on Muslim immigration.
Not voting Trump - Support the idea, does not satisfy me on Muslim immigration.
Note voting Trump - Oppose the idea.
Other

If you pick "would not satisfy me," it would be great for you to describe exactly what would satisfy you so that this "temporary ban" could be lifted.

edit: If you support the lie detector tests but would apply them to all immigrants and not just Muslims, for the purposes of this poll pick "support the idea."
 
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Carjosse

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Lie detector tests are rather unreliable and pretty much completely useless especially for the application you describe. There is a reason that almost always they are not admissible as evidence in criminal cases.
 

PirateMk1

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A colleague of mine is a Trump supporter, and like many such people support's Trumps pledge to halt Muslim immigration "until the vetting process can be sorted out." Unlike most Trump supporters, he didn't dodge the question when I asked what would satisfy that requirement. He wants them to submit to a lie detector test as part of the interviewing process.

This struck me as too easy. Surely Trump's supporters were looking for more than such a simple fix. Plus, this particular Likely Trump Voter isn't what I would call a "typical" Trump supporter, ("I wish he'd be more politically correct.") so I figured I'd toss this idea out here on DP and see whether this is something that would resolve the concerns on the issue. If it really is that simple, this is far less of an issue than I thought.

So, would that be enough, or would you want more?

Plan to vote Trump - Support the idea and this would satisfy me on Muslim immigration
Plan to vote Trump - Suppport the idea but this would not satisfy me on Muslim immigration
Plan to vote Trump - Oppose the idea.
Not voting Trump - Support the idea, satisfies me on Muslim immigration.
Not voting Trump - Support the idea, does not satisfy me on Muslim immigration.
Note voting Trump - Oppose the idea.
Other

If you pick "would not satisfy me," it would be great for you to describe exactly what would satisfy you so that this "temporary ban" could be lifted.

edit: If you support the lie detector tests but would apply them to all immigrants and not just Muslims, for the purposes of this poll pick "support the idea."

For me its simple. A complete ban on all immigration until all of the current immigrants we currently have are sorted out, make themselves citizens, go home, whatever, and then at least another 10 years to allow for the current immigrants to assimilate into the country before CONSIDERING lifting the ban.
 

Carjosse

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For me its simple. A complete ban on all immigration until all of the current immigrants we currently have are sorted out, make themselves citizens, go home, whatever, and then at least another 10 years to allow for the current immigrants to assimilate into the country before CONSIDERING lifting the ban.

And give pretty much any large and medium sized companies enough time to leave.
 

Deuce

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For me its simple. A complete ban on all immigration until all of the current immigrants we currently have are sorted out, make themselves citizens, go home, whatever, and then at least another 10 years to allow for the current immigrants to assimilate into the country before CONSIDERING lifting the ban.

Why does Jimmy from Argentina need to "assimilate" before Rose from South Africa can immigrate? What benefit is there to that?
 

PirateMk1

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Why does Jimmy from Argentina need to "assimilate" before Rose from South Africa can immigrate? What benefit is there to that?


Because we are Balkanizing that's why. That's bad for everyone. We have had very long periods were we allowed very little immigration. There are was a period from the 1920's I think till the late 1950's were we had NO immigration to speak of. We need time for homogenization. I don't mind immigration in fact it is good for the country as it brings new ideas and new blood and new desire. But too much of a good thing can be very bad. We just need time to assimilate what we have.
 

Carjosse

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Because we are Balkanizing that's why. That's bad for everyone. We have had very long periods were we allowed very little immigration. There are was a period from the 1920's I think till the late 1950's were we had NO immigration to speak of. We need time for homogenization. I don't mind immigration in fact it is good for the country as it brings new ideas and new blood and new desire. But too much of a good thing can be very bad. We just need time to assimilate what we have.

Actually the number of new permanent residents actually looks like this. How is the US balkanizing?
 

Phys251

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For me its simple. A complete ban on all immigration until all of the current immigrants we currently have are sorted out, make themselves citizens, go home, whatever, and then at least another 10 years to allow for the current immigrants to assimilate into the country before CONSIDERING lifting the ban.

Anyone who is not an American Indian and opposes immigration needs to return to their continent of origin.
 

Tigerace117

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Because we are Balkanizing that's why. That's bad for everyone. We have had very long periods were we allowed very little immigration. There are was a period from the 1920's I think till the late 1950's were we had NO immigration to speak of. We need time for homogenization. I don't mind immigration in fact it is good for the country as it brings new ideas and new blood and new desire. But too much of a good thing can be very bad. We just need time to assimilate what we have.

We aren't "balkanizing". There's no "Serbian Liberation Army of West New Jersey" or whatever.
 

Mr Person

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1. Lie detector tests are between roughly 50 and 85 percent accurate, depending on many factors.

2. There are ways you can train to beat them. Potentially successful terrorists would employ these methods.

3. An inherent high degree of anxiety faced by a refugee hooked up to machines to take a test, I suspect, could skew the reader's ability to distinguish lie-responses from *****ing-my-pants-anyway responses.

4. Every manner of entering the United States, legal or illegal, other than the refugee asylum program IS EASIER.
 

jamesrage

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A colleague of mine is a Trump supporter, and like many such people support's Trumps pledge to halt Muslim immigration "until the vetting process can be sorted out." Unlike most Trump supporters, he didn't dodge the question when I asked what would satisfy that requirement. He wants them to submit to a lie detector test as part of the interviewing process.

This struck me as too easy. Surely Trump's supporters were looking for more than such a simple fix. Plus, this particular Likely Trump Voter isn't what I would call a "typical" Trump supporter, ("I wish he'd be more politically correct.") so I figured I'd toss this idea out here on DP and see whether this is something that would resolve the concerns on the issue. If it really is that simple, this is far less of an issue than I thought.

So, would that be enough, or would you want more?

Plan to vote Trump - Support the idea and this would satisfy me on Muslim immigration
Plan to vote Trump - Suppport the idea but this would not satisfy me on Muslim immigration
Plan to vote Trump - Oppose the idea.
Not voting Trump - Support the idea, satisfies me on Muslim immigration.
Not voting Trump - Support the idea, does not satisfy me on Muslim immigration.
Note voting Trump - Oppose the idea.
Other

If you pick "would not satisfy me," it would be great for you to describe exactly what would satisfy you so that this "temporary ban" could be lifted.

edit: If you support the lie detector tests but would apply them to all immigrants and not just Muslims, for the purposes of this poll pick "support the idea."

I am no trump suppoter. I support the use of lie detector tests on all immigrants, But I don't think it should be a you pass or fail and that's it. Some people are nervous and some people are really good liars.We should thoroughly vet everyone coming into this country.These people should be thoroughly investigated by our people, not foreign governments.Although I am not too sure how the government can differentiate between someone who is a just a goat farmer, a terrorist or a goat farmer who is sympathetic to terrorists.Its not like the countries they are in have mass surveillance system and a detailed file on everyone that can be trusted.
 

SmokeAndMirrors

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A colleague of mine is a Trump supporter, and like many such people support's Trumps pledge to halt Muslim immigration "until the vetting process can be sorted out." Unlike most Trump supporters, he didn't dodge the question when I asked what would satisfy that requirement. He wants them to submit to a lie detector test as part of the interviewing process.

This struck me as too easy. Surely Trump's supporters were looking for more than such a simple fix. Plus, this particular Likely Trump Voter isn't what I would call a "typical" Trump supporter, ("I wish he'd be more politically correct.") so I figured I'd toss this idea out here on DP and see whether this is something that would resolve the concerns on the issue. If it really is that simple, this is far less of an issue than I thought.

So, would that be enough, or would you want more?

Plan to vote Trump - Support the idea and this would satisfy me on Muslim immigration
Plan to vote Trump - Suppport the idea but this would not satisfy me on Muslim immigration
Plan to vote Trump - Oppose the idea.
Not voting Trump - Support the idea, satisfies me on Muslim immigration.
Not voting Trump - Support the idea, does not satisfy me on Muslim immigration.
Note voting Trump - Oppose the idea.
Other

If you pick "would not satisfy me," it would be great for you to describe exactly what would satisfy you so that this "temporary ban" could be lifted.

edit: If you support the lie detector tests but would apply them to all immigrants and not just Muslims, for the purposes of this poll pick "support the idea."

Not voting for Trump, and I oppose the idea on two fronts.

Firstly, lie detector tests are not accurate enough to be deciding anyone's fate. That's the reason they're usually not admissible in court, and on the rare occasion they are, they are almost always thrown out if the defence challenges the result. If it's not good enough for a paternity suit, then it's not good enough for immigration.

But I also oppose doing this only for Muslims specifically.

And again, this sort of simplistic thinking Trump is prone to. He thinks there's just an easy answer to everything, because he has no underlying knowledge about anything. He never even stopped to ask himself, "If polygraph tests were that accurate, why don't we use them much anymore?"
 

tres borrachos

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I won't be voting for Trump.

It's an interesting idea, but I don't know how reliable lie detector tests are. I know they can be fooled and I also know too much anxiety can produce false results indicating deception when none exist.
 

radcen

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Considering that polygraphs are no better then a coin toss, the idea should be dismissed for that reason alone. No other reason necessary.
 

Visbek

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Polygraphs are not "lie detectors." They only test factors like pulse or breathing.

The reality is that we do have a vetting process, that immigrants are not a real threat, and the ones who don't know what's going on are Trump and his xenophobic followers.
 

Visbek

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Because we are Balkanizing that's why.
There is no indication whatsoever of any Balkanization. As has been the case for decades, immigrants assimilate after a generation or so. After 2 generations, they're as American as anyone else.

To wit: Without looking it up, was Frank Sinatra American, or was he an Italian who happened to live in the US?


We have had very long periods were we allowed very little immigration.
We had 2-3 decades, out of a 250 year history, where immigration was relatively low. That's not long at all.

For most of our history, there was little restriction on immigration. Putting caps on immigration is relatively new. It is unsurprising that one result was a growth in unauthorized immigration.

Further, hitting the pause button did not magically make people assimilate faster. Assimilation is a generational process, not a year process. People don't stop assimilating because more Asians or Chinese are immigrating.

E.g. the Irish assimilated after a few generations, even though they formed coherent and insular communities, in no small part because of the prejudice and oppression they faced for decades. This happened even as there were large numbers of Germans and Italians immigrating to the US at the same time.
 

The Mark

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A colleague of mine is a Trump supporter, and like many such people support's Trumps pledge to halt Muslim immigration "until the vetting process can be sorted out." Unlike most Trump supporters, he didn't dodge the question when I asked what would satisfy that requirement. He wants them to submit to a lie detector test as part of the interviewing process.

This struck me as too easy. Surely Trump's supporters were looking for more than such a simple fix. Plus, this particular Likely Trump Voter isn't what I would call a "typical" Trump supporter, ("I wish he'd be more politically correct.") so I figured I'd toss this idea out here on DP and see whether this is something that would resolve the concerns on the issue. If it really is that simple, this is far less of an issue than I thought.

So, would that be enough, or would you want more?

Plan to vote Trump - Support the idea and this would satisfy me on Muslim immigration
Plan to vote Trump - Suppport the idea but this would not satisfy me on Muslim immigration
Plan to vote Trump - Oppose the idea.
Not voting Trump - Support the idea, satisfies me on Muslim immigration.
Not voting Trump - Support the idea, does not satisfy me on Muslim immigration.
Note voting Trump - Oppose the idea.
Other

If you pick "would not satisfy me," it would be great for you to describe exactly what would satisfy you so that this "temporary ban" could be lifted.

edit: If you support the lie detector tests but would apply them to all immigrants and not just Muslims, for the purposes of this poll pick "support the idea."
One issue I see is that there is no such thing as a "lie detector test". Or machine.

There are systems which can sense and record changes in bodily functions, which may indicate a lie has been told.
But they can easily be fooled, and depend on the questioner asking the right questions the right way in the right order.
And it is possible to control your autonomic responses to a degree, so such systems can be intentionally fooled.


Beyond that, I never really understood all the fear/anger about letting immigrants into the country, based on their area of origin - we already have some of the most intensive filtering systems in place for such that any country has.
 
Last edited:

Enlighten Me

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Yes, they are inaccurate. Yes, it MIGHT be a good idea as Part of the vetting process but how could you find that many certified testers that a fluent in their language. If you add a translator in the mix, the reliability of the results just have to go out the window. You would have so many false positives requiring an even more detailed vetting process.

What people have forgotten to pay attention to is that it is easier to just get a tourist visa from Europe and fly to America than try the immigration /refugee route. Just overstay your visa and disappear in America. We don't vet tourist visas. Just the no fly list of known terrorist sympathizers. That is a lot easier and cheaper than training people how to beat a lie detector test. Just get a passport and visa.

We have seen that we have been very successful at foiling foreign terrorist plots. Or just REAL lucky. Considering the money spent, I believe the former.

We are more at risk from our home grown terrorists whether they be NRA extremists or radicalized American Nationals.

We have seen that radical Islamist are running out of people willing to DIE for making a political statement. All ONE PERSON has to do is be willing to DIE. It does not take too much imagination how to kill dozens if not hundreds of people by legally buying weapons or just renting a truck. Terrorism does not take a lot of high tech skills. Just be willing to die.

This Syrian Refugee issue is really more of a re election political issue rather than a real threat to our national security. Syria was marginal land to start with, little cultivatable land, little water, and few natural resources, poor educational system, Little to build a viable economy on. High unemployment, High poverty rates. Now what infrastructure they had is in ruins. Why would ANYBODY want to stay there and starve to death or get killed in the violence. They just want a job, food, roof, security, and a future for their family. No reason WE can't provide that.
 
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