I'm stuck in the middle

[CompassionateConservative]

First of all, hi. I live in eastern Missouri, and I have no party affiliation. I have been a republican until October 2008. I began thinking about my blind loyalty at that point. To me, the environment is the most important issue facing our country. President Bush had no regard for the environment, to put it shortly. I would like to form a new party someday. This would be the platform

1. Pro-life. Abortions only legal if the mother's life is threatened.
2. Environmentally inclined. We should care about preserving the world in which we live.
3. Be willing to fight terrorism where it is clearly present, but not where proof is lacking that we were threatened (Iraq)
4. Support health insurance for all Americans, using a co-ed or public option. To me, this is not a economic issue. It is an issue of mercy, and how we cannot put a price on human life.
5. No racism. I sense way too much of that in some of the conservatives these days, particularly the Glenn Becks of our world. I will not overlook racism. It sickens me.



So, anyone interested?

 

[Redress]

First of all, hi. I live in eastern Missouri, and I have no party affiliation. I have been a republican until October 2008. I began thinking about my blind loyalty at that point. To me, the environment is the most important issue facing our country. President Bush had no regard for the environment, to put it shortly. I would like to form a new party someday. This would be the platform

1. Pro-life. Abortions only legal if the mother's life is threatened.
2. Environmentally inclined. We should care about preserving the world in which we live.
3. Be willing to fight terrorism where it is clearly present, but not where proof is lacking that we were threatened (Iraq)
4. Support health insurance for all Americans, using a co-ed or public option. To me, this is not a economic issue. It is an issue of mercy, and how we cannot put a price on human life.
5. No racism. I sense way too much of that in some of the conservatives these days, particularly the Glenn Becks of our world. I will not overlook racism. It sickens me.



So, anyone interested?

Hi, welcome to the board. You sound kinda like a blue dog democrat to me.

 

[CompassionateConservative]

Maybe I am. I have never thought of myself that way before, but it makes a bit of since.

 

[jackalope]

Hi, welcome to the board. You sound kinda like a blue dog democrat to me.

Or Eunice Kennedy.


Hi, Welcome to the board :2wave:
nice to meetcha

 

[CompassionateConservative]

I'm glad to be here.

 

[Wessexman]

Welcome to the board.

Interesting political platform, I pretty much agree with it myself although being british I have to compromise on the abortion bit.

 

[Glycogen]

1. Pro-life. Abortions only legal if the mother's life is threatened.

Accepted.

2. Environmentally inclined. We should care about preserving the world in which we live.

Nothing wrong with that. God's Earth, keep it clean for him since we get to live on it.

3. Be willing to fight terrorism where it is clearly present, but not where proof is lacking that we were threatened (Iraq)

How is there no proof regarding the Iraq situation?

4. Support health insurance for all Americans, using a co-ed or public option. To me, this is not a economic issue. It is an issue of mercy, and how we cannot put a price on human life.

Waiting to see if pro-choicers agree to the last 8 words of this statement .

5. No racism. I sense way too much of that in some of the conservatives these days, particularly the Glenn Becks of our world. I will not overlook racism. It sickens me.

I like this idea. My belief is all men are created equal.

 

[Oftencold]

Why do you think Beck is a racist, I never get that.

The would is full of the graves of people who ignored sense and got the "proof" they needed for the hostile intent of evil people by the realization of the hostile intent that they had previously expressed.

if you're going to supply me with health care or insurance, which is much the same thing at public expense, then I must insist that you also similarly supply those things I need far more. This would include housemoving, income, food, clothing, companionship and recreation.

The environment's primary value is its service to man. The only valid approach to Environmentalism is return on investment to Humanity.

I agree with your first point.

Try again.

 

[CompassionateConservative]

Why do you think Beck is a racist, I never get that.

The would is full of the graves of people who ignored sense and got the "proof" they needed for the hostile intent of evil people by the realization of the hostile intent that they had previously expressed.

if you're going to supply me with health care or insurance, which is much the same thing at public expense, then I must insist that you also similarly supply those things I need far more. This would include housemoving, income, food, clothing, companionship and recreation.

The environment's primary value is its service to man. The only valid approach to Environmentalism is return on investment to Humanity.


I agree with your first point.

Try again.

I refuse to be told by anyone what I should believe. I can be shown a viewpoint, but I feel Glenn Beck wants everyone to see the world exactly as he does, and you are not patriotic if you don't. Also, I do not appreciate anyone who compares our good-hearted (but in my opinion somewhat misguided) president to a Nazi. Of course he would deny the comparison, but it is so obvious that I don't even need to make a case for it. I do, however, like Bill O'Reilly. I feel he is fair, a bit biased, but not too bad.

About the environment issue, I can find absolutely no common ground with you. I believe we are to be stewards of the earth, and I care about it much more than what it can give me. I am a hunter and a fisherman, and I have found that I have become passionate about this issue by being in the outdoors so much. It is our only constant besides God. I feel as if we must protect it. But I can't convince someone who doesn't care.

I am a conservative. But I am totally disallusioned with the republican party right now. Mike Huckabee, who I supported in the Republican Primary, has even fallen by the Fox News wayside. Orrin Hatch is good, but I can think of few others.

Health care... I consider myself a compassionate conservative, and I mean what I say. If I must pay more taxes in order to help someone who recovers from cancer from not being millions of dollars in debt, I am willing to do that. Extra taxes are not fun, but sometimes they are the right thing to do.

Most of all, I dislike the nastiness that has infiltrated both the far right, and left wing.

 

[Wessexman]

About the environment issue, I can find absolutely no common ground with you. I believe we are to be stewards of the earth, and I care about it much more than what it can give me. I am a hunter and a fisherman, and I have found that I have become passionate about this issue by being in the outdoors so much. It is our only constant besides God. I feel as if we must protect it. But I can't convince someone who doesn't care.

I completely agree about this. I feel that a conservative must be a conservationist. Both my religious, moral and spiritual scruples and my knowledge of the delicacy of the ecosystems which support our societies makes me reluctant to take on the sort of gung-ho attitude that Oftencold has showed. After all I cannot think of a more important inheritance from our ancestors, and God, than the planet itself with its current environment to which we have adapted our institutions and lives.

 

[Joe1991]

I would like to form a new party someday. This would be the platform

1. Pro-life. Abortions only legal if the mother's life is threatened.
2. Environmentally inclined. We should care about preserving the world in which we live.
3. Be willing to fight terrorism where it is clearly present, but not where proof is lacking that we were threatened (Iraq)
4. Support health insurance for all Americans, using a co-ed or public option. To me, this is not a economic issue. It is an issue of mercy, and how we cannot put a price on human life.
5. No racism. I sense way too much of that in some of the conservatives these days, particularly the Glenn Becks of our world. I will not overlook racism. It sickens me.

You sound like a pro-life liberal to me.

I am also, except that I don't believe my personal views should take away a womans right to choose.

 

[Oftencold]

About the environment issue, I can find absolutely no common ground with you. I believe we are to be stewards of the earth, and I care about it much more than what it can give me. I am a hunter and a fisherman, and I have found that I have become passionate about this issue by being in the outdoors so much. It is our only constant besides God. I feel as if we must protect it. But I can't convince someone who doesn't care.

We are the owners of the earth, no other creature has such a concept as ownership. The proof of our sense of ownership is the fact that we feeel justified in altering it.

We are the only creatures with a concept of value, so of course we assign a value to the earth subserviant to the value we assign ourselves.

Myself, I care about the earth as I would for a possesion of similar value, but it dose in fact remain a possession, whether we are honest enough to call it such or not.

I am a conservative. But I am totally disallusioned with the republican party right now. Mike Huckabee, who I supported in the Republican Primary, has even fallen by the Fox News wayside. Orrin Hatch is good, but I can think of few others.

I am a Conservative and a Rationalist in politics.

Health care... I consider myself a compassionate conservative, and I mean what I say. If I must pay more taxes in order to help someone who recovers from cancer from not being millions of dollars in debt, I am willing to do that. Extra taxes are not fun, but sometimes they are the right thing to do.

Most of all, I dislike the nastiness that has infiltrated both the far right, and left wing.

Feel free to pay as much in taxes as you like, but please leave my wealth be.
I do question the "compassion" of people who wish to compel their neighbors, to surrender the fruits of their labor to pay for favored charities, such as public health care.
( http://www.debatepolitics.com/gener...vernment-do-you-should-willing-force-gun.html )

Again, I feel that if you are going to supply me with publicly funded health care, you must perforce supply all of the things I need more. And of course, by "need," I mean "demand," using the common political definition.

 

[Oftencold]

I completely agree about this. I feel that a conservative must be a conservationist. Both my religious, moral and spiritual scruples and my knowledge of the delicacy of the ecosystems which support our societies makes me reluctant to take on the sort of gung-ho attitude that Oftencold has showed. After all I cannot think of a more important inheritance from our ancestors, and God, than the planet itself with its current environment to which we have adapted our institutions and lives.

You misunderstand me.

I favor conservation, environmentally sound practices and polices, and stewardship because they are wise, and a proper way to maintain a valuable possession, not because the earth has great value in and of itself. Setting aside the thoughts of the Divine for a moment, it only has the value we assign it, none other.

The difference may seen trivial, unless one spends the time to consider what practices will evolve from the separate lines of thought. For instance one is infinitely maintainable (self interest,) the other is subject to the current fad. (Environmentalism is a recent development, which can e displaced by a future movement, and indeed has little traction in a number of cultures.)

 

[CompassionateConservative]

You misunderstand me.

I favor conservation, environmentally sound practices and polices, and stewardship because they are wise, and a proper way to maintain a valuable possession, not because the earth has great value in and of itself. Setting aside the thoughts of the Divine for a moment, it only has the value we assign it, none other.

The difference may seen trivial, unless one spends the time to consider what practices will evolve from the separate lines of thought. For instance one is infinitely maintainable (self interest,) the other is subject to the current fad. (Environmentalism is a recent development, which can e displaced by a future movement, and indeed has little traction in a number of cultures.)

I feel the earth has value beyond the humans that inhabit it. I don't feel as if we are the owners of the earth. Even if we were, isn't it wise to preserve something that you own? I am a member of no fad, or cultural movement. It is a deeply moral conviction to me. If you don't feel the same way, then so be it. We have the right to believe what we want in this great country. But I will never agree with you.

I do not consider myself to be a pro-life democrat. I just think that most Conservatives in this country have forgotten what the movement is really about. In short, I am a Reagan conservative, not a Karl Rove Republican. It is morning in America. Glenn Beck and the like think it is late at night, if you get the analogy.

Barack Obama is not evil, as Glenn Beck, and most of the Tea Party folk think. Misguided, maybe, but I see nothing more than a Patriotic American trying to do what he thinks is right for the country. Nothing vindicative there if you ask me.

I do think it is compassionate to help other people through tough situations, and frankly I think you should too. Hence my position on the healthcare issue. I feel without mercy and compassion, there is no value in society.

 

[Oftencold]

I feel the earth has value beyond the humans that inhabit it.

What assigns the abstract concept of value, aside from Humanity? The Rocks? The Animals (who don't know that there is an Earth)?

I don't feel as if we are the owners of the earth.

Then by what conceivable right do you presume to speak on its behalf, create a mine, dig a basement, or set borders upon its lithosphere?


E

ven if we were, isn't it wise to preserve something that you own?

I belive I just said that in my previous post, no?

I am a member of no fad, or cultural movement. It is a deeply moral conviction to me. If you don't feel the same way, then so be it. We have the right to believe what we want in this great country. But I will never agree with you.

Are you not? I'd call Environmentalism a fad, until it has existed for a number of generations.

I do not consider myself to be a pro-life democrat. I just think that most Conservatives in this country have forgotten what the movement is really about. In short, I am a Reagan conservative, not a Karl Rove Republican. It is morning in America. Glenn Beck and the like think it is late at night, if you get the analogy.

I get it but I have a long historical view. That is, I know that any morning, no matter how promising can be turned back to deepest night in surprisingly short order. ( To murder a metaphor.) Consider the hundreds of millions of our fellows who died grumble deaths in the recent century because some esoteric idea of governance or other was advanced by one nevertheless theoretician or other.

Civilizations fall almost instantly and frequently in the long view, always to the surprise of most of their adherents.

I make no judgment about his personal virtue. However I wouldn't consider him patriotic in any way, shape, manner, vision, version, aspect, degree, manner or form. As for doing what's right for the country, if he thinks he is, I'd say he is grotesquely mistaken.

I certainly think it is compassionate to help people through tough times. However, using coercion to force action which you consider charitable from your neightbors is far less so. Itf you would have me help the poor, you should try to convince me to do so willingly, and abide by my decision.

Instead, you are willing to force my capitulation with the power of
government, which is ultimately backed by force of arms. Since you wish to engage in such thuggery, I choose to resist.

 

[CompassionateConservative]

What assigns the abstract concept of value, aside from Humanity? The Rocks? The Animals (who don't know that there is an Earth)?
Then by what conceivable right do you presume to speak on its behalf, create a mine, dig a basement, or set borders upon its lithosphere?


EI belive I just said that in my previous post, no?



Are you not? I'd call Environmentalism a fad, until it has existed for a number of generations.
I get it but I have a long historical view. That is, I know that any morning, no matter how promising can be turned back to deepest night in surprisingly short order. ( To murder a metaphor.) Consider the hundreds of millions of our fellows who died grumble deaths in the recent century because some esoteric idea of governance or other was advanced by one nevertheless theoretician or other.

Civilizations fall almost instantly and frequently in the long view, always to the surprise of most of their adherents.


I make no judgment about his personal virtue. However I wouldn't consider him patriotic in any way, shape, manner, vision, version, aspect, degree, manner or form. As for doing what's right for the country, if he thinks he is, I'd say he is grotesquely mistaken.


I certainly think it is compassionate to help people through tough times. However, using coercion to force action which you consider charitable from your neightbors is far less so. Itf you would have me help the poor, you should try to convince me to do so willingly, and abide by my decision.

Instead, you are willing to force my capitulation with the power of
government, which is ultimately backed by force of arms. Since you wish to engage in such thuggery, I choose to resist.

Yes, yes. I am a thug. I admit it...... You do know how silly that sounds, to call me a thug don't you? Such comments really hurt a rational cause.


Environmentalism may be a fad for some, but not for myself. It has been my value ever since I can remember. I respect the earth. And I will protect it. I have fought in the past to protect, and I will in the future. As I said in an earlier post, in my humble opinion it is one of only two constants in this universe. Heaven forbid we abuse it.

I see no signs that our country is descending into anything like a black night. I am told by Glenn Beck that the signs are everywhere, but I must be blind. I am not ignoring anything. I just see nothing.

I disagree with many of Barack Obama's viewpoints. But that doesn't make me think he will destroy this country. You say he is not a patriot, but you site mighty little evidence. You know that is a heavy charge, not to be thrown around lightly don't you?

By the way, always good to meet a good old Alaskan. I have my roots there. I envy the fact that you're able to live there. Unfortunately I had to move to Missouri a few years ago. Ugh! I am off topic aren't I.

 

[Goshin]

You believe the environment is the most pressing and vital issue facing the nation today?? :slapme:

I see a disconnect between your chosen username, which is a Bush-era catchphrase, and your prime-issue-position, but what the hay...

 

[CompassionateConservative]

You believe the environment is the most pressing and vital issue facing the nation today?? :slapme:

I see a disconnect between your chosen username, which is a Bush-era catchphrase, and your prime-issue-position, but what the hay...

It is my number 1 issue. Based on looking at polls, most disagree with me, but it's how I feel.

The discrepancy is intentional. Unlike president Bush, who just called himself a compassionate conservative, I actually strive to be one.

 

[Oftencold]

Yes, yes. I am a thug. I admit it...... You do know how silly that sounds, to call me a thug don't you? Such comments really hurt a rational cause.

Everyone who engages in using the force of government to compel his fellow citizens to any action, particularly those of an extra-constitutional nature are engaging in refined thuggery.
This is not a criticism aimed at you personally, just an assertion of plain fact that people choose to ignore, and I refuse to condone.

Environmentalism may be a fad for some, but not for myself. It has been my value ever since I can remember. I respect the earth. And I will protect it. I have fought in the past to protect, and I will in the future. As I said in an earlier post, in my humble opinion it is one of only two constants in this universe. Heaven forbid we abuse it.

Well, remember that it has no respect for you, or anything else-- it's a ball of minerals and gases. As I've said, I support sound environmental practices and conservation. But I've found that most "Greenies," if you will consider me a heretic, because my motivations are anathema.

I see no signs that our country is descending into anything like a black night. I am told by Glenn Beck that the signs are everywhere, but I must be blind. I am not ignoring anything. I just see nothing.

Only you can decide to see what is before you. This may be harsh, but it is a fundamental qualifcation of rational thinking.

I disagree with many of Barack Obama's viewpoints. But that doesn't make me think he will destroy this country. You say he is not a patriot, but you site mighty little evidence. You know that is a heavy charge, not to be thrown around lightly don't you?

And yet I make it, upon the evidence in plain site, that is his own statements, which have been discussed ad nauseum.
And to be honest, in the modern context it is not a heavy charge, because so many people would not wish to be called patriots. Patriotism is not in vogue for a large segment of the population.

By the way, always good to meet a good old Alaskan. I have my roots there. I envy the fact that you're able to live there. Unfortunately I had to move to Missouri a few years ago. Ugh! I am off topic aren't I.

You may always range widely in concourse with myself. I've lived here for about eleven years now.

 

[MyOwnDrum]

You sound like you make up your mind on each issue. I am the same.

 

[pro-bipartisan]

I refuse to be told by anyone what I should believe. I can be shown a viewpoint, but I feel Glenn Beck wants everyone to see the world exactly as he does, and you are not patriotic if you don't. Also, I do not appreciate anyone who compares our good-hearted (but in my opinion somewhat misguided) president to a Nazi. Of course he would deny the comparison, but it is so obvious that I don't even need to make a case for it. I do, however, like Bill O'Reilly. I feel he is fair, a bit biased, but not too bad.

About the environment issue, I can find absolutely no common ground with you. I believe we are to be stewards of the earth, and I care about it much more than what it can give me. I am a hunter and a fisherman, and I have found that I have become passionate about this issue by being in the outdoors so much. It is our only constant besides God. I feel as if we must protect it. But I can't convince someone who doesn't care.

I am a conservative. But I am totally disallusioned with the republican party right now. Mike Huckabee, who I supported in the Republican Primary, has even fallen by the Fox News wayside. Orrin Hatch is good, but I can think of few others.

Health care... I consider myself a compassionate conservative, and I mean what I say. If I must pay more taxes in order to help someone who recovers from cancer from not being millions of dollars in debt, I am willing to do that. Extra taxes are not fun, but sometimes they are the right thing to do.

Most of all, I dislike the nastiness that has infiltrated both the far right, and left wing.

If you like Bill O'Rielly you are Republican.

 

[CompassionateConservative]

If you like Bill O'Rielly you are Republican.

I am not a Republican. I do not agree with all, or even most of his viewpoints, but I believe he is at least an honorable person, unlike, in my opinion, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, or Rush Limbaugh. I believe at least O'Reilly understands that a person can be a patriot, yet disagree with him. That's important to me.

 

[1069]

I refuse to be told by anyone what I should believe. I can be shown a viewpoint, but I feel Glenn Beck wants everyone to see the world exactly as he does, and you are not patriotic if you don't. Also, I do not appreciate anyone who compares our good-hearted (but in my opinion somewhat misguided) president to a Nazi. Of course he would deny the comparison, but it is so obvious that I don't even need to make a case for it.

I'm glad you feel that way.
I'm glad there are still a few sensible people on the Right side of the aisle who have no use for this vicious rhetoric against our president.

 

[Wessexman]

You misunderstand me.

I favor conservation, environmentally sound practices and polices, and stewardship because they are wise, and a proper way to maintain a valuable possession, not because the earth has great value in and of itself. Setting aside the thoughts of the Divine for a moment, it only has the value we assign it, none other.

The difference may seen trivial, unless one spends the time to consider what practices will evolve from the separate lines of thought. For instance one is infinitely maintainable (self interest,) the other is subject to the current fad. (Environmentalism is a recent development, which can e displaced by a future movement, and indeed has little traction in a number of cultures.)

Okay, sorry for misunderstanding you. I sort of agree, although as I said my moral and spiritual outlook does make me feel that preservation of nature has its own intrinsic good as well.