I'm starting to think about firearms, need advice

[Glitch]

So I'm in the northeast and there's not much gun culture here. I fired a gun twice in my life, in the early 90's. The ease with which Seattle's police department was overtaken by a violent mob has me a bit concerned.

Does anyone have any recommendations for proper training and weapon selection to defend against a similar situation happening near me? I'm concerned that "antifa" will rampage through MY neighborhood and deny ME the right to live as an American.

For someone who is unfamiliar with firearms I would highly recommend a firearm safety course. Safe handling skills are essential with firearms.

NRA Explore | Student Courses

Check out your neighborhood gun range. They will often offer firearm courses, and even help you obtain a concealed carry permit should your State require one. Once you've done that, then you need to determine the best tool for the job in your particular case.

If humans are your potential target, and you are considering a handgun, then you will want either a .357 cal. or a 9mm round at minimum. Smaller caliber rounds will not have the stopping power. Pistols and revolvers already have considerably less energy than a rifle or shotgun. Even a .22 cal. rifle will have more energy at the muzzle than a .44 Mag revolver. However, rifles and shotguns are not as easily carried as a pistol or a revolver.

There are a lot of different factors involved in determining the right tool to use, not least of which is your lack of experience with firearms. Pistols are more involved than revolvers, and takes a little more knowledge to break them down and clean properly. However, pistols are semi-automatic and revolvers aren't. You are also limited to between 5 and 8 (6 is the norm) shots with a revolver before you have to reload, whereas a pistol is limited only to the size of its magazine.

People can make recommendations all day long, but ultimately it is you that is going to have to decide.

 

[Glitch]

Enlist in the US Army. They'll give you the BEST firearms training in the world and hell, you won't be limited to those stupid semi-automatic "assault rifles".

You are kidding right? They can't shoot in the Army. None of their targets are more than 300 meters away. I could qualify as Expert in the Army weapon qualification course in my sleep. The Marine Corps trains the best shots, shooting at ranges of 200 meters, 300 meters, and 500 meters.

 

[Glitch]

Everyone should own:

- .22 for small game
- combat shotgun with bird shot for home defense (no need to kill, just scare, or pepper legs)
- 9mm handgun for defense
- 30-30 or bigger rifle for hunting in case we enter Mad Max world

This is just prudent, in my opinion.

That really depends on the individual, your geographical location, and more importantly, what you are defending against. First, if you are not prepared to kill, then you should not own a firearm. Never attempt to just wound an attacker. That is the surest way to get killed. If you feel that your life, or the life of another, is in imminent danger then always shoot to kill.

Shotguns that are equipped to shoot birds (meaning that they have a 24" or longer barrel and probably a modified choke) are not suited for home defense. If you want to use a shotgun for home defense then get one with an 18.5" rifled barrel without a choke.

A 9mm or .357 cal. pistol or revolver should be the absolute minimum when used against another human. Even then all the experts recommend two shots (double-tapping) to take down a human. Once you get to 10mm or .40 cal. and greater, then you only need one shot to stop a human.

I use a Springfield .3006 for caribou, and a Remington 300 Win. Mag. for moose. So far all my caribou and moose that I have taken have been within ~150 yards. I don't hunt bear, but I carry an AR-12 as my "camp gun" and a Ruger Super Redhawk .44 Mag as back-up. I'm more concerned about being attacked by moose or bear than I am about being attacked by a human.

 

[Casper]

Gonna disagree with the shotgun shell advice. If you plan to use a gun to defend yourself and family inside the home, it should be with the intent to kill the threat, not wound it. If that is something you can't do, hide, call the police and hope for the best. With that said, #4 is probably the highest I would use. Short range it's still deadly but won't harm your neighbors. For me, buckshot is preferred.

No, the idea is to stop the threat as quickly as possible, killing is not the goal. Never say that to a LEO if the worst happens, just say you were afraid for your life and stop talking. The rest I agree with.

 

[Mycroft]

You are kidding right? They can't shoot in the Army. None of their targets are more than 300 meters away. I could qualify as Expert in the Army weapon qualification course in my sleep. The Marine Corps trains the best shots, shooting at ranges of 200 meters, 300 meters, and 500 meters.

yawn...

I'm not going to get into a dick measuring contest. Hey...have it your way. The OP can enlist in the Marines and get BETTER firearms training.

Are we cool?

(The first time I qualified...expert, btw...I knocked down targets at 450 meters. That was with an M14. It wasn't easy. Such a shot would be even harder with an M16 variation.)

 

[Rich2018]

~ For riot - crowd control :
View attachment 67283696

That looks awesome, the perfect home defense tool.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

1-I always draw a distinction between liberals and leftists. 2-If people dont want to be drawn in with ANTIFA, they probably shouldnt spend most of their time defending them. The reality is that they leftists that defend ANTIFA dont know **** about them, nor do they care, all they see them as is a wedge against conservatives (all conservatives) and therefore, a good thing.

I see no need to defend Antifa but I laugh at the stories being made up about them.
About 95 percent of what Antifa does is cosplay with an equally ridiculous bunch of neo-Nazis.
Well, almost equally, because the neo-Nazis are often strapped and Nazism has a historical body count.
But most of it is still street theater anyway, and Antifa are perhaps the greatest neo-Nazi recruiting tool ever invented.

But Fox News has managed to convince Trumplandia that they're as dangerous as ISIS.
And that's just truly pathetic.
But I'll give you hysterics one bit of credit, and that's the fact that Antifa says "Anyone can be antifa - we are a leaderless movement", which means quite simply, that literally ANYONE CAN BE Antifa, so no one really knows who or what Antifa actually is, other than the obvious cosplay element.

Hey, if you feel the need to invest that much in an invisible foe that defies description and serves as your "Emmanuel Goldstein du Jour" there's nothing I can do to stop you. But when you accuse Democrats and other liberals of being best friends to Antifa, you're lying.

We're not far Left enough, and too many of us are "statists" which of course is a cardinal sin to Antifa, as they most closely align with anarchists.
We are considered traitors for the most part.
You claim you draw a distinction.
Gonna hold you to that.

 

[VanceMack]

I see no need to defend Antifa but I laugh at the stories being made up about them.
About 95 percent of what Antifa does is cosplay with an equally ridiculous bunch of neo-Nazis.
Well, almost equally, because the neo-Nazis are often strapped and Nazism has a historical body count.
But most of it is still street theater anyway, and Antifa are perhaps the greatest neo-Nazi recruiting tool ever invented.

But Fox News has managed to convince Trumplandia that they're as dangerous as ISIS.
And that's just truly pathetic.
But I'll give you hysterics one bit of credit, and that's the fact that Antifa says "Anyone can be antifa - we are a leaderless movement", which means quite simply, that literally ANYONE CAN BE Antifa, so no one really knows who or what Antifa actually is, other than the obvious cosplay element.

Hey, if you feel the need to invest that much in an invisible foe that defies description and serves as your "Emmanuel Goldstein du Jour" there's nothing I can do to stop you. But when you accuse Democrats and other liberals of being best friends to Antifa, you're lying.

We're not far Left enough, and too many of us are "statists" which of course is a cardinal sin to Antifa, as they most closely align with anarchists.
We are considered traitors for the most part.
You claim you draw a distinction.
Gonna hold you to that.

The vast majority of people that show up at ANTIFA...what...rallies? riots? Are just loudmouth rebels without a clue. But to deny that there is a well funded organization driving that train is just foolish. They are being used...willingly...to sew discontent. And whether or not it is a massively organized effort or a loosely organized effort it is no less dangerous and damaging. Entire cities have been impacted, people have been hurt, business have been damaged, livelihoods impacted.

As to the distinction...check for yourself. I have made it numerous times.Lots of examples. This is just one.

Suddenly Liberals Stockpiling Food, Guns...

 

[ecofarm]

You are kidding right? They can't shoot in the Army. None of their targets are more than 300 meters away. I could qualify as Expert in the Army weapon qualification course in my sleep. The Marine Corps trains the best shots, shooting at ranges of 200 meters, 300 meters, and 500 meters.

300 meters over iron sights ain't bad, and the army has snipers.

 

[VanceMack]

You are kidding right? They can't shoot in the Army. None of their targets are more than 300 meters away. I could qualify as Expert in the Army weapon qualification course in my sleep. The Marine Corps trains the best shots, shooting at ranges of 200 meters, 300 meters, and 500 meters.

But then you would have to go through Marine basic training. I have lived my whole life attached to the military in some capacity and I wouldnt have made it in the marine corps. I even understand why they have to play the games they do. But it wasnt for me. Before I joined the marine recruiter tried to get me to sign with them. I politely declined.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

But to deny that there is a well funded organization driving that train is just foolish. They are being used...willingly...to sew discontent.

Don't wait for me to give you entree. I know you're about to say George Soros :lamo
You act as if no one's ever read your posts!
Sorry but back to the Q-Anon Pizza Parlor Basement Annex with you.

Massive projection, The Kremlin's been playing you guys for years.

 

[Court Jester]

So I'm in the northeast and there's not much gun culture here. I fired a gun twice in my life, in the early 90's. The ease with which Seattle's police department was overtaken by a violent mob has me a bit concerned.

Does anyone have any recommendations for proper training and weapon selection to defend against a similar situation happening near me? I'm concerned that "antifa" will rampage through MY neighborhood and deny ME the right to live as an American.

I could give you a lot of recommendations, but not knowing you, the type of household you live in, your willingness to get training, I will tell you what I would tell most people who are just looking for basic home personal protection.

Start here

this

then get one of these

.38 cal 6 inch revolver. What police and security guards carried for 60 years. Safe and SIMPLE.



that would be my advice--- just "first base" for anyone considering personal home protection without a lot of training or money.

 

[VanceMack]

Don't wait for me to give you entree. I know you're about to say George Soros :lamo
You act as if no one's ever read your posts!
Sorry but back to the Q-Anon Pizza Parlor Basement Annex with you.

Massive projection, The Kremlin's been playing you guys for years.

Sure. Russia. Collusion. Russia. Russia. Russia. :roll:

Oh...someone has been bent over the desk about Russia alright. The tragedy isnt that they did it...its that you took it so willingly.

 

[2distracted]

So I'm in the northeast and there's not much gun culture here. I fired a gun twice in my life, in the early 90's. The ease with which Seattle's police department was overtaken by a violent mob has me a bit concerned.

Does anyone have any recommendations for proper training and weapon selection to defend against a similar situation happening near me? I'm concerned that "antifa" will rampage through MY neighborhood and deny ME the right to live as an American.

It may come to anarchy..I mean Total anarchy

So totally arm yourself

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Sure. Russia. Collusion. Russia. Russia. Russia. :roll:

Oh...someone has been bent over the desk about Russia alright. The tragedy isnt that they did it...its that you took it so willingly.

Nice try but it's your hero retweeting Kremlin nonsense, Q-Anon, Pizzagate and pretty much anything a retarded nine year-old on crack would find interesting, not me.

 

[Rich2018]

It may come to anarchy..I mean Total anarchy

So totally arm yourself

The wet dreams of preppers all over the USA come true.

 

[Glitch]

But then you would have to go through Marine basic training. I have lived my whole life attached to the military in some capacity and I wouldnt have made it in the marine corps. I even understand why they have to play the games they do. But it wasnt for me. Before I joined the marine recruiter tried to get me to sign with them. I politely declined.

Sure you would. It wasn't that difficult physically or mentally. It was mostly mental conditioning. It doesn't take very long to figure out that they are playing mind games with you to see how you react under stress. The hardest part for me was keeping a straight face. Drill Instructor insults can be rather creative, and funny.

Nothing the Marines do is that physically demanding. What many find to be difficult is climbing an un-knotted 30' rope. If you can do that, then Marine Corps boot camp is easy. They do like to run a lot, but they start you off slow with just a mile jog and it gradually gets longer and longer until by the end of basic training 80 days later you are jogging for 5+ miles. As far as mental ability is concerned they teach you about some basic Marine Corps history in order to instill "esprit de corps," and you are tested on your knowledge after each phase.

The Marine Corps does have a reputation for being tough, but they are just tougher than the Army, which isn't saying much. My original platoon of 80 in boot camp graduated with just 46 remaining in the platoon. Of those 34 recruits who did not graduate with us, most failed either their physical or mental exams at the end of each phase. They still will eventually graduate, they were just sent back to repeat the phase until they pass. So they were inserted in the platoon that was behind us. Some where set back, or discharged, due to injuries. We only had one guy who wigged out and attempted to commit suicide. Before sending him to the hospital the Drill Instructor gave him a 15 minute lecture on how to commit suicide correctly.

I was a pretty decent shot before I joined the Marines, but the Marine Corps definitely made me a much better shot. There was a noticeable improvement in my accuracy from before I joined to after graduating boot camp. However, my improved accuracy was largely with a specific firearm, the M16A1. I was taught you use the sling in a particular way for the M16A1 to improve my accuracy. Thankfully, the AR-12 I bought in 2018 is very similar to the M16A1, and I am able to use the sling in the same manner that I used it in 1972 to improve my accuracy. I can shoot ~1.5" groups at 100 yards with my AR-12. I was lucky to get 6" groups at 100 yards with my Mossberg.

 

[Fledermaus]

yawn...

I'm not going to get into a dick measuring contest. Hey...have it your way. The OP can enlist in the Marines and get BETTER firearms training.

Are we cool?

(The first time I qualified...expert, btw...I knocked down targets at 450 meters. That was with an M14. It wasn't easy. Such a shot would be even harder with an M16 variation.)

500 Prone was always easy money for me with M16A1. Standing and Knealing 200 is where I lost most points. Sitting position never made sense to me but I could get a tight hold and did well.

 

[Rich2018]

Sure you would. It wasn't that difficult physically or mentally. It was mostly mental conditioning. It doesn't take very long to figure out that they are playing mind games with you to see how you react under stress. The hardest part for me was keeping a straight face. Drill Instructor insults can be rather creative, and funny.

Nothing the Marines do is that physically demanding. What many find to be difficult is climbing an un-knotted 30' rope. If you can do that, then Marine Corps boot camp is easy. They do like to run a lot, but they start you off slow with just a mile jog and it gradually gets longer and longer until by the end of basic training 80 days later you are jogging for 5+ miles. As far as mental ability is concerned they teach you about some basic Marine Corps history in order to instill "esprit de corps," and you are tested on your knowledge after each phase.

The Marine Corps does have a reputation for being tough, but they are just tougher than the Army, which isn't saying much. My original platoon of 80 in boot camp graduated with just 46 remaining in the platoon. Of those 34 recruits who did not graduate with us, most failed either their physical or mental exams at the end of each phase. They still will eventually graduate, they were just sent back to repeat the phase until they pass. So they were inserted in the platoon that was behind us. Some where set back, or discharged, due to injuries. We only had one guy who wigged out and attempted to commit suicide. Before sending him to the hospital the Drill Instructor gave him a 15 minute lecture on how to commit suicide correctly.

I was a pretty decent shot before I joined the Marines, but the Marine Corps definitely made me a much better shot. There was a noticeable improvement in my accuracy from before I joined to after graduating boot camp. However, my improved accuracy was largely with a specific firearm, the M16A1. I was taught you use the sling in a particular way for the M16A1 to improve my accuracy. Thankfully, the AR-12 I bought in 2018 is very similar to the M16A1, and I am able to use the sling in the same manner that I used it in 1972 to improve my accuracy. I can shoot ~1.5" groups at 100 yards with my AR-12. I was lucky to get 6" groups at 100 yards with my Mossberg.

Are DI's really allowed to hit you a la Full Metal Jacket ?

 

[Fledermaus]

But then you would have to go through Marine basic training. I have lived my whole life attached to the military in some capacity and I wouldnt have made it in the marine corps. I even understand why they have to play the games they do. But it wasnt for me. Before I joined the marine recruiter tried to get me to sign with them. I politely declined.

What made Marine boot camp easier for me was that I knew how the outside worked as I was the child of a career Marine. Even after thwacking my leg and getting an extra few months in Parris Island I was assured an easier road once I made it through.

 

[Rich2018]

300 meters over iron sights ain't bad, and the army has snipers.

If a man is more than 300 metres away, it's a waste of ammo trying to shoot him with an issue rifle.


You need a scope or a crew served weapon.

 

[VanceMack]

Sure you would. It wasn't that difficult physically or mentally. It was mostly mental conditioning. It doesn't take very long to figure out that they are playing mind games with you to see how you react under stress. The hardest part for me was keeping a straight face. Drill Instructor insults can be rather creative, and funny.

Nothing the Marines do is that physically demanding. What many find to be difficult is climbing an un-knotted 30' rope. If you can do that, then Marine Corps boot camp is easy. They do like to run a lot, but they start you off slow with just a mile jog and it gradually gets longer and longer until by the end of basic training 80 days later you are jogging for 5+ miles. As far as mental ability is concerned they teach you about some basic Marine Corps history in order to instill "esprit de corps," and you are tested on your knowledge after each phase.

The Marine Corps does have a reputation for being tough, but they are just tougher than the Army, which isn't saying much. My original platoon of 80 in boot camp graduated with just 46 remaining in the platoon. Of those 34 recruits who did not graduate with us, most failed either their physical or mental exams at the end of each phase. They still will eventually graduate, they were just sent back to repeat the phase until they pass. So they were inserted in the platoon that was behind us. Some where set back, or discharged, due to injuries. We only had one guy who wigged out and attempted to commit suicide. Before sending him to the hospital the Drill Instructor gave him a 15 minute lecture on how to commit suicide correctly.

I was a pretty decent shot before I joined the Marines, but the Marine Corps definitely made me a much better shot. There was a noticeable improvement in my accuracy from before I joined to after graduating boot camp. However, my improved accuracy was largely with a specific firearm, the M16A1. I was taught you use the sling in a particular way for the M16A1 to improve my accuracy. Thankfully, the AR-12 I bought in 2018 is very similar to the M16A1, and I am able to use the sling in the same manner that I used it in 1972 to improve my accuracy. I can shoot ~1.5" groups at 100 yards with my AR-12. I was lucky to get 6" groups at 100 yards with my Mossberg.

Right...I dont take well to the yelling. The Air Force worked for me. I work with Soldiers now...I dont think I would have tolerated that either. I dont know who thought it would be a good idea to give a bunch of barely out of adolescent NCOs the power to 'smoke' their own troops for fun and profit.

My first trip into Saudi we were pretty salty coming off the plane. The 141 had problems and we were on the ground in Germany for 3 days but had to stay on or by the plane the whole time. Im a classified courier so not only did I get to deal with the stuff strapped to me, I also got to babysit the pallets for 3 days. Anyway...coming off the plane we got hit by that Kiln dry heat and an army guy yelling at us to grab our gear move out and fall in and all kinds of other craziness. I wasnt sure of the army rank but I was pretty sure I outranked him and so I just walked up to him and said "relax, man...we're in the Air Force". That got him turned to 11 to which our Chief stepped in and said, "relax, Sarge...I got this...hey...guy...you want to gather up over here for a minute?" I thought we were going to need a new army guy.

I was a good shot going in. I was lucky because of my job and courier duty I got to shoot and qualify more often than most in the AF outside the Combat Arms folks.

 

[Glitch]

Right...I dont take well to the yelling. The Air Force worked for me. I work with Soldiers now...I dont think I would have tolerated that either. I dont know who thought it would be a good idea to give a bunch of barely out of adolescent NCOs the power to 'smoke' their own troops for fun and profit.

Now that I'm 66 and looking back more than 40 years, I tend to agree with the "barely out of adolescent NCOs" because they were only a few years older than me at the time. You need to be an E-4 to be an NCO in the Marine Corps, and that takes several years to achieve. It took me four years to become a Corporal, and another two to become a Sergeant. That experience makes all the difference.

My first trip into Saudi we were pretty salty coming off the plane. The 141 had problems and we were on the ground in Germany for 3 days but had to stay on or by the plane the whole time. Im a classified courier so not only did I get to deal with the stuff strapped to me, I also got to babysit the pallets for 3 days. Anyway...coming off the plane we got hit by that Kiln dry heat and an army guy yelling at us to grab our gear move out and fall in and all kinds of other craziness. I wasnt sure of the army rank but I was pretty sure I outranked him and so I just walked up to him and said "relax, man...we're in the Air Force". That got him turned to 11 to which our Chief stepped in and said, "relax, Sarge...I got this...hey...guy...you want to gather up over here for a minute?" I thought we were going to need a new army guy.

I was a good shot going in. I was lucky because of my job and courier duty I got to shoot and qualify more often than most in the AF outside the Combat Arms folks.

My MOS was 1391 (Bulkfuelman) and I was stationed with the 7th Engineer Battalion, 1st FSSG, 1st Marine Division. We did a lot of training with the Navy SeaBees, but more often than not we were used as "enemy targets" for the grunts on field maneuvers. Instead of being sent to Vietnam, the Marine Corps decided to send me to Okinawa instead where I refueled helicopters for 13 months.

I had no contact with Air Force personnel, and I'm as fuzzy on Air Force rank as you are on Army rank. All my intra-military service experience has been with the Navy. Our favorite past-time was to steal chow from the Navy whenever we got the opportunity. It was always better than the C-Rats and K-Rats that we had.

 

[Rich2018]

Enlist in the US Army. They'll give you the BEST firearms training in the world ...

:lamo

 

[Artymoon]

No, the idea is to stop the threat as quickly as possible, killing is not the goal. Never say that to a LEO if the worst happens, just say you were afraid for your life and stop talking. The rest I agree with.

Again, respectfully disagree. If someone invades your home and if your goal is truly to end the threat as quickly as possible, then birdshot for me would be a last resort in a shotgun. To each his own though.