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I'm starting to think about firearms, need advice

zsu2357

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Sounds to me as if you're letting the rhetoric of the right get to you. Don't give in to the politics of fear.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.
Is it "the rhetoric of the right"laying waste to Seattle? I say pull the police out(with pay)and let the anti police mobs burn it to the ground, then WA. rebuilds it on the states dime. A petri dish of what happens.
 

Ikari

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You arent stupid enough to the think they actually care about race, racism, or racists...yet you make stupid statements like that.

View attachment 67283697

You will just be a soft target of convenience.
Well I ain't a liberal, so it seems like I ain't getting that bullet.

lol
 

beerftw

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So I'm in the northeast and there's not much gun culture here. I fired a gun twice in my life, in the early 90's. The ease with which Seattle's police department was overtaken by a violent mob has me a bit concerned.

Does anyone have any recommendations for proper training and weapon selection to defend against a similar situation happening near me? I'm concerned that "antifa" will rampage through MY neighborhood and deny ME the right to live as an American.
9mm is a fairly solid choice, plenty of stopping power but lowish penetration meaning lower chances of your shot hurting someone elsewhere you had no intention of hurting. If you have to ask this question though you need to get to a gun club or a gun store with a range and an experiences salesman, who will let you fire the guns and see for yourself what fits you and advise you on the best calibers and styles.
 

zsu2357

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=BlueTex;1072060168]This is one of my favorites... Let me ask, let's say you live in a town of 100,000 people or around there... How much hunting would be going on in your scenario? Let's say 25% of the town was out hunting every day, thats 25,000 hunters roaming your little town every day. How much "big game" is there in your town?
Not a lot of hunting since most just go to the store. And even if a lot of them brought something down they would be clueless what to do.

PS: If this scenario comes to pass, I recommend hiding your snacks, I mean pets...
And I suppose you wouldn't eat dog?

In your scenario a town of 100,000 would have a large die off within months. We are assuming no food is coming in. Within 3-4 days people are very hungry. People would sit on their fat asses waiting for help that probably wouldn't be coming. Then disease follows and soon you're down to about 25,000 maybe. People would kill to keep what they have. And kill to take what YOU have.
 

beerftw

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AR15 with a 30 round clip. Hardly any recoil, light, small enough to get around the corners in the house.

The bullets are so fast they cause hydrostatic shock, killing people in an instant who would've lived had they been shot with a 9mm.

It's a rifle, so you can easily hit things way beyond accurate pistol range. Plus it shoots flat.

With a 30 round clip, you can stop a riot in its tracks.
What do you consider beyond pistol range? This is a serious question as most ar owners I deal with think they are only good for 50 yards like they have no knowlede on guns and bought them as a fad without even knowing what it was capable of.

In the army We used the m-16 basically the military version of he same but with select fire. We had to qualify at up to 300 yards/meters(forget which i has been long enough) however he army did competitions out to 500, while he marines qualified at 500. However 500 is low compared to actual full power rifles, in the past 800-1k yards for training or quals with iron sights would have been normal, however the caliber then was very capable.

With 5.56 or .223 it is possible to get 1k yards/meters with high accuracy but they do have to usually run custom loads, as the bullet is usually too light to remain stable at those distances. Up to 500 yards it is considered deadly, it will kill well beyond that and may hit it's target well beyong that, but the military set their standards off of reliable proven results.

All this rambling is just really to one point, do you understand the ar-15 to reccomend it or even the caliber used, or is it just hype you are pushing rather than function.
 

Checkerboard Strangler

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That post nailed it. :applaud
Well, I wish I could beam with pride about it, but I can't.
Kinda sucks to realize some of this stuff.
I used to live in the exact neighborhood where George Floyd was killed...about four blocks from that very store.
South Minneapolis is where my heart still lives, despite me enjoying life in Los Angeles today.
I belong to the South Minneapolis group on Facebook, and during the unrest, about three or four of the members were making lame and pathetic justifications for the looting, burning and destruction.
It pissed off a lot of people in the group.

But the mods are a couple of little old ladies who clearly thought the most controversial thing that would ever be discussed on that page was the neighbor's dog pee-peeing on their prized azalea bushes.
So to read these asshats defending the vandals, looters and arsonists was...not very pleasant.
But they never got booted out of the group...they have exited of their own accord after being called out for what they are, angry little malcontents who have never had either the reward or responsibility for anything of value in their entire miserable lives.

The worst part: Reading one stupid bitch celebrating a beloved neighborhood bar burning down, which had been there since the 1920's.
Her own grandfather owned the diner down the street where patrons always went before or even after a night of drinking at The Hexagon.
She doesn't give two ****s about the history of her town, her neighborhood, or even the fact that these people are pretty much family to her.
I worked for her grandfather...unbelievable.

And judging from what they wrote, I don't think a single one of them even gave a good goddamn about George Floyd.
They're just angry little punks who want to watch the whole world burn.
It's not like they needed very much push or justification either, just a slight unraveling of the thin veneer of civilization, that's all.
 

Checkerboard Strangler

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You arent stupid enough to the think they actually care about race, racism, or racists...yet you make stupid statements like that.

View attachment 67283697

You will just be a soft target of convenience.
But that's why every time you guys try to lump the entire left, even ordinary Democrats, in with Antifa, you look idiotic doing it.
Antifa generally loathe liberals and Democrats, we're not far Left enough for them, so they consider us traitors.
Plus, for those in Antifa who are also anarchists, we are loathsome enough anyway because we are statists, sworn enemy of all that is anarchy related.

Not only do you folks know zero about Antifa, or anarchists, you also don't know anything about the left in general except what Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson tell you, when you're not consuming fare cooked up in the The Kremlin Kitchens or the Q-Anon Pizza Parlor Basement Annex.

You peddle your well funded revisionist bullcrap and then expect people to take you seriously.
Hitler a leftist? Modern day Democrats on the side of the Klan? You're peddling pure insanity.
 

zsu2357

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What's the point of shooting people if you're not going to stop the threat they pose? If someone is going to continue to shoot back after 9mm hits...why on earth not use the most effective thing you can shoot well?

(And btw, I'm not accepting your example about 9mm ammo/handguns. It all depends on distance, accuracy, load/config (FMJ or hollowpoint for ex.) etc etc. But I can still make my point with your example)
I just noticed that's a drum mag. Wouldn't have one on the place for home defense. Fun if you're plinking, but a jam isn't going to get you killed. Lursa I agree on the 9mm.
 

Aurora

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What do you consider beyond pistol range? This is a serious question as most ar owners I deal with think they are only good for 50 yards like they have no knowlede on guns and bought them as a fad without even knowing what it was capable of.

In the army We used the m-16 basically the military version of he same but with select fire. We had to qualify at up to 300 yards/meters(forget which i has been long enough) however he army did competitions out to 500, while he marines qualified at 500. However 500 is low compared to actual full power rifles, in the past 800-1k yards for training or quals with iron sights would have been normal, however the caliber then was very capable.

With 5.56 or .223 it is possible to get 1k yards/meters with high accuracy but they do have to usually run custom loads, as the bullet is usually too light to remain stable at those distances. Up to 500 yards it is considered deadly, it will kill well beyond that and may hit it's target well beyong that, but the military set their standards off of reliable proven results.

All this rambling is just really to one point, do you understand the ar-15 to reccomend it or even the caliber used, or is it just hype you are pushing rather than function.
The AR platform comes in numerous calibers. 5.56 ain't the only game anymore. 6.5 Grendel, , 6.8 SPC, .300 Blackout and a host of wildcats. Military was considering a bigger caliber than 5.56 due to lack of knockdown at distance. M4 's short barrel hurt it's performance . The full 20" M16 did better.
 

PIPEWRENCH

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And a round that can kill someone half a mile away is perhaps not the best option.
Most bullets fired from a hunting rifle can kill someone at more than 1/2 mile. They wouldn't be an effective hunting rifle if they didn't. I have never bought a gun to kill a person. I didn't buy my aluminum baseball bat for self defense but I have grabbed it and was ready to use it for self defense. For that matter if someone threatens my life when I have my claw hammer in my hand you might find that can be deadly as well. I am not too concerned about the bullet from my gun killing the wrong person. It most likely will be a 22 and I won't miss.
 

TurtleDude

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Everyone should own:

- .22 for small game
- combat shotgun with bird shot for home defense (no need to kill, just scare, or pepper legs)
- 9mm handgun for defense
- 30-30 or bigger rifle for hunting in case we enter Mad Max world

This is just prudent, in my opinion.
bird shot at your typical inside the home distances will destroy someone's chest or head-will cut off a leg at 8 yards. Measure your house and tell me what a shot inside a room will be in terms of distance. I saw someone hit a 150 pound or so spotted hyena in Kenya with a 20G loaded with #6 (hunting francolin partridge) at about 10 yards. It was immediately fatal.
 

aociswundumho

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Does anyone have any recommendations for proper training and weapon selection to defend against a similar situation happening near me?
Yea, do what I'm gonna do, gtfo of New England.
 

Ginger Ale

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So I'm in the northeast and there's not much gun culture here. I fired a gun twice in my life, in the early 90's. The ease with which Seattle's police department was overtaken by a violent mob has me a bit concerned.

Does anyone have any recommendations for proper training and weapon selection to defend against a similar situation happening near me? I'm concerned that "antifa" will rampage through MY neighborhood and deny ME the right to live as an American.

I'd be really careful and learn the laws in your city. Seattle isn't Phoenix. You might just end up experiencing some of that police violence instead of the outcome you're thinking.

In my state, I can pretty much shoot who I want on my property but Seattle seems iffy to me in that regard. Plus, I'm on a farm. You sound like you're down within the city and could hit someone not intended. Read the rules before you play with your gun.
 

ModernDiogenes

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I have no idea if the OP is on the level or not.

I know a good bit about guns for civilian use and I’ll tell you the best weapon to have for home protection is a police riot style shotgun with #8 birdshot loaded into it.

The weapon can readily be trained for adequate proficiency in relatively shot order. Won’t jam and is highly effective. The birdshot will not penetrate dry wall and kill your next door neighbor, but will take down a criminal offender in your home, right off his feet, and make him truly not want to get back up again. And you only have to point it in the general direction, so the loss of fine motor skills under duress isn’t going to be an issue.

Store it on an empty chamber and rack it when you need it. That sound is so well known that you likely won’t have to use it as anyone coming into your home and hearing that will get out faster than they came in.
 

zsu2357

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I'm saying a AR15 .223 will stop pretty much any man, even if he's wearing a bullet proof vest. It has a lot more accuracy than a pistol, and enough firepower that you don't have to be as accurate.
Depends on the vest. Just because my underwear say fire resistant doesn't mean I'm going to try and set them on fire to prove it.
 

eohrnberger

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So I'm in the northeast and there's not much gun culture here. I fired a gun twice in my life, in the early 90's. The ease with which Seattle's police department was overtaken by a violent mob has me a bit concerned.

Does anyone have any recommendations for proper training and weapon selection to defend against a similar situation happening near me? I'm concerned that "antifa" will rampage through MY neighborhood and deny ME the right to live as an American.
Well, having taken to firearms enthusiasm late in life, in the last 5 years, I have a few thoughts to offer. Of course, your mileage may vary, but these are just my observations and experiences.

The 'proper' firearm: Try a bunch of different ones (lots of ranges have rentals to try out), and pick the one that you are most comfortable using. For me it was a Glock 9mm. For you, it may very well be a .357 revolver. Everyone's different. Find yours.

The 'proper' training: Definitely take the time and training to qualify for a CPL (Concealed Pistol License). The training (knowledge) is invaluable for safety even if you don't plan on carrying a firearm on a frequent basis (I don't carry at all, strictly range shooting), and it often makes the process of the actual acquisition of a pistol far easier (less hassle running from FFL [Federal Firearms License dealer] to the police and back again). You show the FFL your CPL, write a check or CC, and it's yours, walk out the store, exactly like any other purchase, and it should be such.

Practice, practice, practice: Both for safety's sake and for proficiency with the firearm tool (which is it).
Start out with the pistol at a 20' target. Once you consistently put 9 out of 10 rounds in the black, move that target further out 5 more feet, and achieve it again. Repeat. I'm at hitting 9 out of 10 in the black at 35' now.

The logic: At 20' an assailant is a mere 4 seconds from you at a run. That's only 2 rounds, maybe 3. Move that assailant out 10 more feet, gain 2 more seconds and as many rounds. Because you aren't going to hit 9 out of 10 in that situation. You really do need those 2 or 3 more seconds.

I try to get out to the range at least 1 to 2 hours every 4 - 6 weeks. The COVID lock down has made that nearly impossible, but starting to open up now, so I'm looking forward to this safe activity at the controlled, State outdoor rage soon. It's been a long time. Too long.

Rifles? I built myself an AR-15 from parts (not that hard for the mechanically inclined), chambered in 5.56 (so I can use 2.23 in it as well - but rarely do), and am still working on zeroing in the scope at 100 yards again looking for that 9 out of 10 in the black, but it's not easy, really it isn't! - but it's a lot of fun honing those skills, at least for me.

Ammo? There are a number of online stores that will sell and ship (always ground so not quick) at good prices. Ammo that doesn't cause your firearms to jam or miss-feed are the ones to keep re-ordering.

At this point, I'm starting to consider a Glock chambered in 45, but that's a significant 'investment' for the procurement, so I dunno right now. Maybe.

It really is like most any other hobby. Part skill development. Part wise and prudent spending. Part what you are interested in getting out of it.
 

VanceMack

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But that's why every time you guys try to lump the entire left, even ordinary Democrats, in with Antifa, you look idiotic doing it.
Antifa generally loathe liberals and Democrats, we're not far Left enough for them, so they consider us traitors.
Plus, for those in Antifa who are also anarchists, we are loathsome enough anyway because we are statists, sworn enemy of all that is anarchy related.

Not only do you folks know zero about Antifa, or anarchists, you also don't know anything about the left in general except what Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson tell you, when you're not consuming fare cooked up in the The Kremlin Kitchens or the Q-Anon Pizza Parlor Basement Annex.

You peddle your well funded revisionist bullcrap and then expect people to take you seriously.
Hitler a leftist? Modern day Democrats on the side of the Klan? You're peddling pure insanity.
1-I always draw a distinction between liberals and leftists. 2-If people dont want to be drawn in with ANTIFA, they probably shouldnt spend most of their time defending them. The reality is that they leftists that defend ANTIFA dont know **** about them, nor do they care, all they see them as is a wedge against conservatives (all conservatives) and therefore, a good thing.
 

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Is it "the rhetoric of the right"laying waste to Seattle? I say pull the police out(with pay)and let the anti police mobs burn it to the ground, then WA. rebuilds it on the states dime. A petri dish of what happens.
Hi! I cannot agree with a wish for violence, with the possibility of deaths. I find that to be fear-mongering.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.
 

TomFitz

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So I'm in the northeast and there's not much gun culture here. I fired a gun twice in my life, in the early 90's. The ease with which Seattle's police department was overtaken by a violent mob has me a bit concerned.

Does anyone have any recommendations for proper training and weapon selection to defend against a similar situation happening near me? I'm concerned that "antifa" will rampage through MY neighborhood and deny ME the right to live as an American.
Change the channel, and ignore the bs on you social media feed.

You’ll be just as safe, and you’ll feel better.
 

swing_voter

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not saying that, its great for small game hunting, but you don't think its also good for someone budget wise/ease of getting acclimated to for a beginner?

If you stick a .22 single shot in someone's face, odds are they're going to leave you alone. Then you can run and call the cops on them.

You can find the stats on it, but a lot of confrontations involving guns are just that, someone showing their gun to an aggressor and the aggressor leaves. It's like 70%, IIRC.

And if it comes down to it, people are killed with .22s all the time.
 

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Nah, useless as an arsenal. You need 7.62 (or at least 556) for an arsenal.

This is just home defense, with a view towards not letting rounds escape the immediate area, and putting food on the table if society falls apart.

Everyone should own a shotgun for defense, bare minimum, and just use bird shot so it's not about killing people.
Gonna disagree with the shotgun shell advice. If you plan to use a gun to defend yourself and family inside the home, it should be with the intent to kill the threat, not wound it. If that is something you can't do, hide, call the police and hope for the best. With that said, #4 is probably the highest I would use. Short range it's still deadly but won't harm your neighbors. For me, buckshot is preferred.
 

VanceMack

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No, I don't work for Paul Harrell, I just love the guy, lol. He is the real deal. He will be the first to tell you though, what works for him, may not work for you.

I think I have watched every video he has made. He is understated...doesnt do the tacticool gig. He gives honest reviews.

I agree with him completely about the round, and as he says...it works for HIM...but if you are a shooter interested in the Beretta, you should go to a range that will let you rent their guns and try before you buy. The Beretta 92FS grip is a bit large for people with small to medium and even some large hands. Many of the servicemen I shot with had to actually manipulate their shooting hand around the grip to get to the magazine release.

But that would be HIS point as well. FOR HIM.
 

Bum

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I think I have watched every video he has made. He is understated...doesnt do the tacticool gig. He gives honest reviews.

I agree with him completely about the round, and as he says...it works for HIM...but if you are a shooter interested in the Beretta, you should go to a range that will let you rent their guns and try before you buy. The Beretta 92FS grip is a bit large for people with small to medium and even some large hands. Many of the servicemen I shot with had to actually manipulate their shooting hand around the grip to get to the magazine release.

But that would be HIS point as well. FOR HIM.
Good point....and as I posted in another thread, Lady Bum traded her older 9mm for an M&P Shield 9mm EZ; lighter, smaller grip, and easier to rack the slide.
Even Baby Girl Bum has an easy time with it...highly recommended for those with smaller hands.
 

Artymoon

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Good point....and as I posted in another thread, Lady Bum traded her older 9mm for an M&P Shield 9mm EZ; lighter, smaller grip, and easier to rack the slide.
Even Baby Girl Bum has an easy time with it...highly recommended for those with smaller hands.
Yep, the EZ is a great gun. Buddy of mine just picked up one for his wife for same reasons.
 
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