I'm Pro-Life: Change My Mind

[Mashmont]

You may know this already, but the unborn has no recognized right to life. Women do, as well as being protected by the Constitution.


How do you feel about the dehumanization of women, which is implicit in having others decide what is best for their lives? In strangers or the govt being able to force women to remain pregnant against their will? That does not reflect respect for human dignity. Isnt it dehumanizing for women to have laws valuing unborn lives more than theirs, denying women a medical procedure that is safer?

Abortion is 14 times safer than pregnancy​

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Getting a legal abortion is much safer than giving birth, suggests a new U.S. study published Monday.​

​

Researchers found that women were about 14 times more likely to die during or after giving birth to a live baby than to die from complications of an abortion.​

Abortion safer than giving birth: study

Getting a legal abortion is much safer than giving birth, suggests a new U.S. study published Monday.

www.reuters.com

Can you explain to me the value you place on the 'innocence' of the unborn? I dont understand it. The unborn cannot act, cannot even form intent, how can it be innocent or evil? Or guilty? It is a vacuum, emptiness. It is the same 'innocence' that a couch or a flower has. It seems like an attempt to use emotion to assign value. Why do you value this 'innocence' of emptiness more than a woman's personal liberty and other rights?

Safer for whom? Certainly not the child.

 

[Lursa]

Safer for whom? Certainly not the child.

I'm sure her children would be perfectly safe, she's probably making this decision to ensure their better care and security.

As you know, no children are involved in abortions, so abortion is quite safe for kids.

 

[Mashmont]

I'm sure her children would be perfectly safe, she's probably making this decision to ensure their better care and security.

As you know, no children are involved in abortions, so abortion is quite safe for kids.

Don't waste our time diverting with semantics. We all know what we're talking about.

 

[Lursa]

Don't waste our time diverting with semantics. We all know what we're talking about.

Dont waste our time with your dishonest emotional manipulation. If you choose to self-indulgently imagine actual children inside women you dont even know...that's really disturbing....but it's your issue, not ours. If you need that creepy fantasy to stoke your self-righteous outrage...dont share it....pray for strength to control your weakness.

 

[Mashmont]

Dont waste our time with your dishonest emotional manipulation. If you choose to self-indulgently imagine actual children inside women you dont even know...that's really disturbing....but it's your issue, not ours. If you need that creepy fantasy to stoke your self-righteous outrage...dont share it....pray for strength to control your weakness.

MW defines children as either born or unborn. And this is for the 500th time. Why do you continually waste everyone's time with the circular crap?

 

[Lursa]

MW defines children as either born or unborn. And this is for the 500th time. Why do you continually waste everyone's time with the circular crap?

Yeah, so one dictionary made a mistake using a colloquial term. You cling to that like grim death.

Lots of people speak that way about their pets too...same thing. Their cat is like their child. So I guess it's wrong to put cats to sleep then?

 

[weaver2]

MW defines children as either born or unborn. And this is for the 500th time. Why do you continually waste everyone's time with the circular crap?

Because you keep wasting everyone's time with your own mental midget brand of religious horse shit?

 

[Crovax]

Very few people find abortion to be pleasant. However, the rights of the born do supersede those of the unborn, and just because those born are women does not diminish that fact.

what rights are more important? There’s a reason the order in the Declaration of Independence is Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Life is the most important it’s why animal and plant life rights often supersede those of born humans. Is an unborn human really lower of importance than a dog or a cat?

 

[Mashmont]

Because you keep wasting everyone's time with your own mental midget brand of religious horse shit?

I don’t think it’s ladylike to use such coarse language.

 

[Mashmont]

Yeah, so one dictionary made a mistake using a colloquial term. You cling to that like grim death.

Lots of people speak that way about their pets too...same thing. Their cat is like their child. So I guess it's wrong to put cats to sleep then?

The top dictionary in the world didn’t make a mistake. MW never said a cat is a child.

 

[Mashmont]

Daniel Patrick Moynihan said, "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but not to their own facts" and it is not a fact that Roe caused disintegration of the family or loss of respect for marriage. That began when Republicans refused to support intact but poor families. They claimed if federal money was offered the husband would quit work and live off the "government". So, they offered support only to the children and only in households where there were no fathers. Thus, when a family needed assistance funds were only available if the father left the family. If you doubt this google the term "Man in the House".

Your opinion is noted and respected as opinion but intelligent opinions are supported by facts and your conservative generated fantasy about Roe is not true and does not support your opinion.

Abortion encourages sex outside marriage. That is borne out by the fact that over 80% of abortions are had by unmarried women. So Eriech is correct

 

[maquiscat]

what rights are more important? There’s a reason the order in the Declaration of Independence is Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Life is the most important it’s why animal and plant life rights often supersede those of born humans. Is an unborn human really lower of importance than a dog or a cat?

I don't think you understand what that word means.

 

[code1211]

I didn't see it (cell division) mentioned explicitly. But isn't that the very definition of a fertilized egg?

I'm NOT a degreed biologist. I suppose that I could check with my wife who is, but she's currently in a ZOOM Meeting and not available for comment.

My Liberal Arts level understanding of biology leads me to believe that the cell division would FOLLOW fertilization even if only by milliseconds.

Does that sound reasonable?

 

[weaver2]

Abortion encourages sex outside marriage. That is borne out by the fact that over 80% of abortions are had by unmarried women. So Eriech is correct

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr48/nvs48_16.pdf

There you are: the definitive study on marriage, childbirth in and out of wedlock and abortion. 1940 to 1999. I'm right. You and Eriech are wrong. That's the difference between you and me. I look up facts from reliable sources and you desperately hope nobody sees you pulling crap out of your dogma.

 

[weaver2]

I don’t think it’s ladylike to use such coarse language.

And I don't think sorry little male bigots who hide behind conservative Catholic dogma are manly.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Do they attend private schools or do they go to publicly funded schools. If private then the parents are wealthy. If public then that is govt assistance.

Uhm....no. People pay school taxes. smh

 

[Scrabaholic]

Abortion encourages sex outside marriage. That is borne out by the fact that over 80% of abortions are had by unmarried women. So Eriech is correct

There is nothing wrong w/ sex without marriage, as long as it's consensual and not involving minors or animals.

 

[southwest88]

Abortion encourages sex outside marriage. That is borne out by the fact that over 80% of abortions are had by unmarried women. So Eriech is correct

From a hysterical (amusing in & of itself, for many reasons) US Fundamentalist POV, everything about the West since @ least the fall of the Roman Empire encourages sex, whether in or out of marriage: sufficient food, bathing, clothing, writing, slavery, Native Peoples, immigrants, Roman Catholicism, the wrong kinds of Christians, Judaism, Islam, any other religion or related belief system, widespread literacy, poetry, electrification, medicine, women's suffrage, the abolition of slavery, public hygiene, sports, the wars, nuclear weapons, the peace, public schools, Kindergarten, higher education, literature, museums, unions, a cash economy, the entertainment industry, Show Biz, art, opera, theater, newspapers, print, railroads, the telegraph, internal combustion, airlines, the telephone, movies, radio, TV, the service economy, outsourcing. Did I miss anything?

 

[southwest88]

I'm NOT a degreed biologist. I suppose that I could check with my wife who is, but she's currently in a ZOOM Meeting and not available for comment.

My Liberal Arts level understanding of biology leads me to believe that the cell division would FOLLOW fertilization even if only by milliseconds.

Does that sound reasonable?

Ask her anyway, just to be on the safe side - when her duties don't press her so, of course.

 

[soylentgreen]

Uhm....no. People pay school taxes. smh

And taxes go to the government which pay for the schooling of children.

 

[Lursa]

what rights are more important? There’s a reason the order in the Declaration of Independence is Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Life is the most important it’s why animal and plant life rights often supersede those of born humans. Is an unborn human really lower of importance than a dog or a cat?

And yet...that personal liberty leaves that choice up to each individual and not the govt. Strangers or the govt cannot know the heart of each individual. Many people choose to give up life for family, country, principles, religion, etc. So it cannot be assumed for anyone.

Do you think the govt has the right to decide that for you, for other individuals, or to protect under the Constitution, your right to decide for yourself?

 

[Scrabaholic]

And taxes go to the government which pay for the schooling of children.

Which means parents are paying their way. Govt assistance is welfare, for crying out loud.

 

[Lursa]

The top dictionary in the world didn’t make a mistake. MW never said a cat is a child.

It's colloquial term and it can only be accurate if it's qualified by 'unborn' in front of it.

The fact that you misuse it for your convenience only shows how weak your argument is. You have to falsely label the unborn and use emotional manipulation because you have no real argument on why women shouldnt have the right to abortion.

And since we correct you every time you attempt it...it fails that way too

 

[Lursa]

Abortion encourages sex outside marriage. That is borne out by the fact that over 80% of abortions are had by unmarried women. So Eriech is correct

Provably wrong. Millions of Americans have all the consensual sex they want outside marriage and the abortion rate goes down every year.

Chalk up another fail for you.

 

[soylentgreen]

Which means parents are paying their way. Govt assistance is welfare, for crying out loud.

No, it means that without that assistance from the government parents would be unable to pay their way. Parents do not pay for the necessary infrastructure of a school or the many teachers it costs to teach.

In this argument poverty is defined as those who do not have a spare 200,000 odd just laying around to spend on a child.