I'm going to use Epsom Salts to try to turn my side yard blue (more Studying the science in my yard.

[JacksinPA]

My side yard, which I can see from my bathroom window, suddenly was a beautiful mat of tiny blue flowers. They lasted most of the month of April, each tiny flower lasting only one day. That was 3 or 4 years ago. I IDed the plant as an invasive creeper named Commelina communis (Asiatic Dayflower). The blue color of the flowers is caused by a 3-D complex of plant chemicals & magnesium that absorbs the red part of sun light & reflects the blue.

I've thought about the decline in the flowering & I've come to the conclusion that the beautiful flower mat I had seen that first year can't form as richly as before because that first & later blooms used up most of the magnesium found in my yard's soil. My lawn service vacuums up loose grass clippings, so little magnesium from old flowers gets to leach back into the soil. No magnesium, no blue flowers. The probable answer: feed that area of my lawn with inexpensive Epsom Salts (magnesium sulfate). Mixed with 10-10-10 fertilizer. And the sulfate ion makes the soil acid, which this plant loves. I'm only looking at something under 500 square feet to be treated. One of my friends is in the tree business so he would know who in the area could handle a small job like that.

The proof of my hypothesis: blue flowers next April.



+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Grand Mal]

My side yard, which I can see from my bathroom window, suddenly was a beautiful mat of tiny blue flowers. They lasted most of the month of April, each tiny flower lasting only one day. That was 3 or 4 years ago. I IDed the plant as an invasive creeper named Commelina communis (Asiatic Dayflower). The blue color of the flowers is caused by a 3-D complex of plant chemicals & magnesium that absorbs the red part of sun light & reflects the blue.

I've thought about the decline in the flowering & I've come to the conclusion that the beautiful flower mat I had seen that first year can't form as richly as before because that first & later blooms used up most of the magnesium found in my yard's soil. My lawn service vacuums up loose grass clippings, so little magnesium from old flowers gets to leach back into the soil. No magnesium, no blue flowers. The probable answer: feed that area of my lawn with inexpensive Epsom Salts (magnesium sulfate). Mixed with 10-10-10 fertilizer. And the sulfate ion makes the soil acid, which this plant loves. I'm only looking at something under 500 square feet to be treated. One of my friends is in the tree business so he would know who in the area could handle a small job like that.

The proof of my hypothesis: blue flowers next April.



+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sounds complicated.

 

[JacksinPA]

Sounds complicated.

What's complicated? Feeding a plant something it needs to flower? This blue color is attractive enough that an extract of the flower color is used in printing in Japan.

 

[ecofarm]

You'll probably need to mitigate pH with lime. You'll need time to measure the impact. That could take a season. I would advise against employing salt.

 

[JacksinPA]

You'll probably need to mitigate pH with lime. You'll need time to measure the impact. That could take a season. I would advise against employing salt.

My Hydrangea use the same metal complex to make their flowers blue & I buy aluminum sulfate from Amazon & give each a half pound every few years. Feeding needed salts to plants is not a very demanding project. I have to estimate the approximate amount of Epsom Salt to put down this fall after the grass stops growing. I have a feel that 10-20 pounds of MgSO4 should at least prove my point. Give it 6 months to migrate into the soil to be ready for April 2012.

 

[ecofarm]

My Hydrangea use the same metal complex to make their flowers blue & I buy aluminum sulfate from Amazon & give each a half pound every few years. Feeding needed salts to plants is not a very demanding project. I have to estimate the approximate amount of Epsom Salt to put down this fall after the grass stops growing. I have a feel that 10-20 pounds of MgSO4 should at least prove my point. Give it 6 months to migrate into the soil to be ready for April 2012.

What's your current soil pH and what pH do you anticipate after the treatment. If you don't know, it could turn your yard into a desert. Your soil pH might be too low already.

Soil pH test kits are simple and cheap.

 

[dirtpoorchris]

Nature is crazy.

 

[ecofarm]

A low soil pH could be the problem in the first place.

Magnesium is in a form most easily uptaken by plants when the soil pH is between 7.5 and 9 but provided the pH is between 6.5 and 9.5 most plants should be able to uptake adequate amounts (as long as the soil contains sufficient magnesium). Plants that require a pH outside this range (such as azaleas and blueberries) may require more magnesium the soil to compensate for reduced availability.

Magnesium in plants and soil

Magnesium in plants and soil

plantprobs.net

Drop your pH too low (with something like aluminium sulfate) and no amount of magnesium will suffice. I believe you have a pH, not a magnesium, problem.

 

[dirtpoorchris]

sounds like a book for 2020

THE SALT AND THE FLOWERS

 

[ecofarm]

Sounds complicated.

Hold my beer.

 

[DiAnna]

Hold my beer.

 

[Chomsky]

This might turn-out to be a Frankenyard!

 

[ecofarm]

What's complicated? Feeding a plant something it needs to flower?

Plants don't actually take stuff from us, they take it from soil. There's a middle-man. He's got all kinds of crazy rules.

Generations of crops probably wouldn't deplete your magnesium. I highly doubt flowers and grass could in a hundred years. Salt is ****ing yikes. In ancient times, salt was put on enemy land to destroy soil for generations.

 

[bongsaway]

My side yard, which I can see from my bathroom window, suddenly was a beautiful mat of tiny blue flowers. They lasted most of the month of April, each tiny flower lasting only one day. That was 3 or 4 years ago. I IDed the plant as an invasive creeper named Commelina communis (Asiatic Dayflower). The blue color of the flowers is caused by a 3-D complex of plant chemicals & magnesium that absorbs the red part of sun light & reflects the blue.

I've thought about the decline in the flowering & I've come to the conclusion that the beautiful flower mat I had seen that first year can't form as richly as before because that first & later blooms used up most of the magnesium found in my yard's soil. My lawn service vacuums up loose grass clippings, so little magnesium from old flowers gets to leach back into the soil. No magnesium, no blue flowers. The probable answer: feed that area of my lawn with inexpensive Epsom Salts (magnesium sulfate). Mixed with 10-10-10 fertilizer. And the sulfate ion makes the soil acid, which this plant loves. I'm only looking at something under 500 square feet to be treated. One of my friends is in the tree business so he would know who in the area could handle a small job like that.

The proof of my hypothesis: blue flowers next April.



+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A weak solution of epsom salts in a spray bottle also helps to set tomato flowers and give you more fruits.

 

[JacksinPA]

My Hydrangea use the same metal complex to make their flowers blue & I buy aluminum sulfate from Amazon & give each a half pound every few years. Feeding needed salts to plants is not a very demanding project. I have to estimate the approximate amount of Epsom Salt to put down this fall after the grass stops growing. I have a feel that 10-20 pounds of MgSO4 should at least prove my point. Give it 6 months to migrate into the soil to be ready for April 2012.

I emailed the guy who runs the local tree/lawn fertilizing company. I asked him if any of his bosses would question him about what was going on with someone wanting to spread an unusual chemical (magnesium sulfate) on his lawn. Here is his response:

Jack,

No one is going to question this. Right now I am the boss. There is one person higher on the food chain but he is still recovering from Covid. We typically don’t get involved with lawn fertilization but I can come over with a drop spreader and take care of it.

That's what friends are for. We're both neighbors as well as members of the same ham radio club. If I'd gone to some outfit that I didn't know, they might ask a lot of questions & waste my time when they turned down such a small job.

What's your current soil pH and what pH do you anticipate after the treatment. If you don't know, it could turn your yard into a desert. Your soil pH might be too low already.

Soil pH test kits are simple and cheap.

The salt I use now is extremely acid. While hydrated aluminum is weakly basic, sulfuric acid is close to as extreme a pH as you can get, when diluted with rain water. In 7 years in this house I've been feeding one of my Hydrangeas the aluminum salt of sulfuric acid & it hasn't hurt anything

 

[Demon]

My side yard, which I can see from my bathroom window, suddenly was a beautiful mat of tiny blue flowers. They lasted most of the month of April, each tiny flower lasting only one day. That was 3 or 4 years ago. I IDed the plant as an invasive creeper named Commelina communis (Asiatic Dayflower). The blue color of the flowers is caused by a 3-D complex of plant chemicals & magnesium that absorbs the red part of sun light & reflects the blue.

I've thought about the decline in the flowering & I've come to the conclusion that the beautiful flower mat I had seen that first year can't form as richly as before because that first & later blooms used up most of the magnesium found in my yard's soil. My lawn service vacuums up loose grass clippings, so little magnesium from old flowers gets to leach back into the soil. No magnesium, no blue flowers. The probable answer: feed that area of my lawn with inexpensive Epsom Salts (magnesium sulfate). Mixed with 10-10-10 fertilizer. And the sulfate ion makes the soil acid, which this plant loves. I'm only looking at something under 500 square feet to be treated. One of my friends is in the tree business so he would know who in the area could handle a small job like that.

The proof of my hypothesis: blue flowers next April.



+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I thought those were annuals?

 

[JacksinPA]

I thought those were annuals?

They are annuals but it appears to grow as a creeper & flower in April. The plant is still there the next year, so it seems more like a perennial.

 

[Demon]

They are annuals but it appears to grow as a creeper & flower in April. The plant is still there the next year, so it seems more like a perennial.

Odd. It does have pretty flowers. We seem to have acquired Veronica this year - very small blue flowers.

 

[Threegoofs]

Plants don't actually take stuff from us, they take it from soil. There's a middle-man. He's got all kinds of crazy rules.

Generations of crops probably wouldn't deplete your magnesium. I highly doubt flowers and grass could in a hundred years. Salt is ****ing yikes. In ancient times, salt was put on enemy land to destroy soil for generations.

You’re confusing sodium chloride salt with the generic term ‘salt’, which is what fertilizers are made of.

Potash is a salt- potassium base. Phosphate? Ammonium phosphate- a salt.

adding Mg doesn’t sound crazy, but 10-20 lbs over 500 sf is! I’m guessing about 5% of that is still overkill. It’s a trace mineral.

 

[ecofarm]

I emailed the guy who runs the local tree/lawn fertilizing company. I asked him if any of his bosses would question him about what was going on with someone wanting to spread an unusual chemical (magnesium sulfate) on his lawn. Here is his response:

Jack,

No one is going to question this. Right now I am the boss. There is one person higher on the food chain but he is still recovering from Covid. We typically don’t get involved with lawn fertilization but I can come over with a drop spreader and take care of it.

That's what friends are for. We're both neighbors as well as members of the same ham radio club. If I'd gone to some outfit that I didn't know, they might ask a lot of questions & waste my time when they turned down such a small job.


The salt I use now is extremely acid. While hydrated aluminum is weakly basic, sulfuric acid is close to as extreme a pH as you can get, when diluted with rain water. In 7 years in this house I've been feeding one of my Hydrangeas the aluminum salt of sulfuric acid & it hasn't hurt anything

Anecdotal evidence is fun. I await test results.

 

[JacksinPA]

Odd. It does have pretty flowers. We seem to have acquired Veronica this year - very small blue flowers.

Neat, I'll take a look at that plant. I've posted before about studying the science in my yard. I have 2 plants whose flowers are blue: Hydrangea & Commelina. From a chemist's POV they are neat because they both use 3-D complexes of plant chemicals & metal ions to absorb the right wavelengths of light to create that color. chemicals & metal ions: Hydrangea uses aluminum & Commelina uses magnesium. But these 2 plants are only distantly related. This type of flower color formation is found in other plants but it is not common. They are called bioaccumulators because they absorb the metals with their roots & store them in the plant. With these 2 & others, the metal ions are used to give the flowers a blue color. There has to be some evolutionary explanation for this because these color-producing metal complexes within their flowers. These plants such as the dayflower are also used to clean up mine spills & the like.

 

[JacksinPA]

Anecdotal evidence is fun. I await test results.

I will let you know next April, or if my grass dies before then

 

[Threegoofs]

I will let you know next April, or if my grass dies before then

10 lbs is ridiculous. Check your math.

 

[JacksinPA]

10 lbs is ridiculous. Check your math.

I don't want to go through this every year.

 

[Threegoofs]

I don't want to go through this every year.

Sprinkling some Epsom salts in a garden shouldn’t be a big chore.

Personally, I’d start with a pound or so, and distribute more on one end and little to none on the other end to see if it actually worked. And I’d do it with a hand spreader.