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I'm a liberal, but that doesn't mean what a lot of you may think it does

Shrink726

The tolerant left? I'm the intolerant left.
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This is really terrific. Agree with everything except #13. If I had my way (I know I don't, but....), I'd take guns away from everyone except military and police.

 
This is really terrific. Agree with everything except #13. If I had my way (I know I don't, but....), I'd take guns away from everyone except military and police.
Commie! (jk)

Good list and I agree with all the points.
 

Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on liberty, consent of the governed and equality before the law.[1][2][3] Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but they generally support free markets, free trade, limited government, individual rights (including civil rights and human rights), capitalism, democracy, secularism, gender equality, racial equality,* internationalism, freedom of speech, freedom of the press and freedom of religion.[4][5][6][7][8][9][10]

* I would add generational equality - the view that future generations deserve to enjoy a planet/society at least as good as we have - as an important defining feature of 21st century liberalism.
 

Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on liberty, consent of the governed and equality before the law.[1][2][3] Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but they generally support free markets, free trade, limited government, individual rights (including civil rights and human rights), capitalism, democracy, secularism, gender equality, racial equality,* internationalism, freedom of speech, freedom of the press and freedom of religion.[4][5][6][7][8][9][10]

* I would add generational equality - the view that future generations deserve to enjoy a planet/society at least as good as we have - as an important defining feature of 21st century liberalism.

This can't be right. I'm repeatedly assured on this forum that liberals are gun-grabbing communists who want to destroy America via wealth redistribution. Except for the elected ones, they're also pedophiles.
 
This is really terrific. Agree with everything except #13. If I had my way (I know I don't, but....), I'd take guns away from everyone except military and police.

He is a left liberal. . They do share a lot with the libertians but they are also very different
 
He is a left liberal. . They do share a lot with the libertians but they are also very different

Libertarians often seem to think that 'ownership' is a god-given concept or some kind of 'natural' right... rather than a restriction on other folks' freedom (by definition; don't touch this, can't go there) and hence a secondary, socially-derived right. Second biggest difference I'd say is that most liberals value steps towards equality of opportunity (eg. for the disabled, marginalised, under-privileged etc.) rather than just equality before the law.
 
Libertarians often seem to think that 'ownership' is a god-given concept or some kind of 'natural' right... rather than a restriction on other folks' freedom (by definition; don't touch this, can't go there) and hence a secondary, socially-derived right. S
That is a conservative view and not a libertian

Second biggest difference I'd say is that most liberals value steps towards equality of opportunity
A very liberal view and should be shared by left liberals and libertarians like. Left liberals do however have a bigger tendency to acknowledge that the liberal ideology not always works...
 
That is a conservative view and not a libertian


A very liberal view and should be shared by left liberals and libertarians like. Left liberals do however have a bigger tendency to acknowledge that the liberal ideology not always works...

It seems to be >70% North Americans on this forum, at least in General Politics, so 'liberals' are almost always left-liberal and 'libertarians' are most commonly right-libertarian/Ayn Rand types. In particular, the extreme kind of "taxation is theft" rhetoric (rather than the conditions under which society permits the ownership and acquisition of property) usually comes from libertarians rather than conservatives (who often don't mind big public budgets for military, police and walls).
 
This can't be right. I'm repeatedly assured on this forum that liberals are gun-grabbing communists who want to destroy America via wealth redistribution. Except for the elected ones, they're also pedophiles.

Not me.
I realize that I am not supposed to exist but I've been around guns my entire adult life and I've owned a firearm my entire adult life. I just don't waltz around with it to look badass. I like capitalism just fine. I simply think it has some similarities to fire, and we have fire safety regs for a reason. Same applies to capitalism. We need some basic guardrails, that's all, and capitalism should be a tool that serves the working class first. Believe me, rich folks will, if anything, get richer if it passes through the little guy's hands first.
 
somebody list which of those things that Jesus Christ would agree with.
 
That is a conservative view and not a libertian


A very liberal view and should be shared by left liberals and libertarians like. Left liberals do however have a bigger tendency to acknowledge that the liberal ideology not always works...

Here is a very liberal democratic idea: sometimes liberal policies are neccesary, sometimes conservative ones are more appropriate, depending on the circumstances.

Jerry Brown compared governing to steering a canoe: pushing the vehicle along with the oar on the right and then on the left back and forth.

We have had a conservative Supreme Court for at least 40 years. The GOP schemed to keep that court conservative for, perhaps, another 40 years. This is a bid for a permanent concensus and very anti-democratic.
 
I'm repeatedly assured on this forum that liberals are gun-grabbing communists who want to destroy America via wealth redistribution.
I like capitalism just fine. I simply think it has some similarities to fire, and we have fire safety regs for a reason. Same applies to capitalism. We need some basic guardrails, that's all, and capitalism should be a tool that serves the working class first. Believe me, rich folks will, if anything, get richer if it passes through the little guy's hands first.

Regulated, competitive free markets (of which capitalism is the most obvious and common, but not necessarily only example) seem to be the best system we've got so far for driving innovation and certain kinds of efficiency. But just because it can be an excellent system in terms of production obviously doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be great in terms of distribution (in fact the opposite is the case both in theory and practice, with a strong inherent tendency towards upward accumulation of unearned wealth); nor does the magic of free markets warrant the 'logic' that the freer they are the better they'll be; nor does it mean that a market solution is the best answer to every imaginable problem (healthcare, which is often literally a case of 'give us your money or die' is pretty close to the opposite of a free market, for example, though a mixed public/private system seems reasonable); nor does it mean that more and more production will always be the best thing on a global scale in the long term.

Market fundamentalism - also known as neoliberalism - pretty much ignores all of these sometimes fairly obvious caveats.

Personally I especially worry about the last point, though I'm not completely persuaded even by some critics of capitalism I very much admire. I'm not sure I fully understand but I think the idea in general outline is that capitalism requires an ongoing cycle of investment to function, investment requires a reasonable expectation of positive returns, which in turn requires that the economy as a whole be generally growing over the long term rather than receding or even holding steady. But how is it possible or rational to expect ongoing and hence ultimately infinite growth on a finite planet? We can fantasize about expanding our economic activities beyond this planet extensively enough that those limitations no longer apply, but until that becomes a reality - or until we find something better to replace capitalism with - maybe the least we should do is to stop fetishizing mindless consumption, private luxuries and the billionaires whose lifestyles do more to destroy the common wealth of humanity than do a million of the world's poorest. (Ever wondered why 'overpopulation' is such a common buzzword?)

The Problem is Capitalism | George Monbiot
 
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