Illegal Workers Swept From Jobs in ‘Silent Raids’

[Slartibartfast]

http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=.../www.nytimes.com/2010/07/10/us/10enforce.html

BREWSTER, Wash. — The Obama administration has replaced immigration raids at factories and farms with a quieter enforcement strategy: sending federal agents to scour companies’ records for illegal immigrant workers.
While the sweeps of the past commonly led to the deportation of such workers, the “silent raids,” as employers call the audits, usually result in the workers being fired, but in many cases they are not deported. Over the past year, Immigration and Customs Enforcement has conducted audits of employee files at more than 2,900 companies. The agency has levied a record $3 million in civil fines so far this year on businesses that hired unauthorized immigrants, according to official figures. Thousands of those workers have been fired, immigrant groups estimate.
Employers say the audits reach more companies than the work-site roundups of the administration of President George W. Bush.

Say what you will about the Obama admin's actions in regards to Az, he seems to be doing quite a decent job in this area.

 

[danarhea]

http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=.../www.nytimes.com/2010/07/10/us/10enforce.html



Say what you will about the Obama admin's actions in regards to Az, he seems to be doing quite a decent job in this area.

Good idea. You can't clamp down on illegal immigration unless you attack the main reason they are coming here - Employers who are hiring them.

 

[MaggieD]

Actually, it's brilliant. It costs money to "round up and deport." Take away the jobs and, as we allllll know, they'll go home of their own volition. I love it. Wow. Maybe he is serious. Where's the news been? This should make front page.

 

[Deuce]

Good idea. You can't clamp down on illegal immigration unless you attack the main reason they are coming here - Employers who are hiring them.

Simple supply and demand. I've been bashing my head for years wondering why the country hasn't figured this out yet. Same with the war on drugs, actually.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=.../www.nytimes.com/2010/07/10/us/10enforce.html



Say what you will about the Obama admin's actions in regards to Az, he seems to be doing quite a decent job in this area.

They're just getting fired . . . which leaves their families out of money and with NO help from the government/unemployment.

This is why it's STUPID to be here illegally - you have no rights and your family will just suffer endlessly.

 

[MaggieD]

“And there is no drama, no trauma, no families being torn apart, no handcuffs.”

Honestly, this is the best news I've heard from the current administration. $3 million in fines since the first of the year. I'm sure that's put a whole bunch of companies on notice. Notice the article talks about "Guest Workers." I believe this was initiated under GWB. They're allowed in on temporary visas. Sounds great to me.

The growers don't like this part (re guest workers):

Under the new rules, growers will no longer be able to attest that they tried to find American workers to fill jobs given to migrants, but will have to prove they conducted job searches. The Labor Department will establish a national electronic registry of farm jobs to assist the effort.

February 11 New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/12/us/12farm.html

Looks like we'll be paying more for grapes, folks. That's a GR8T thing!!

 

[Redress]

My only problem is those identified not being arrested. The rest sounds fantastic.

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

They're just getting fired . . . which leaves their families out of money and with NO help from the government/unemployment.

Then Mexico needs to step up with welfare payments to their armies of invaders here in the States.

Or they can go home, since they're not wanted here, that's the best solution for them.

However, Invaders identified should be arrested an released from custody only in their country of origin.

 

[braindrain]

So instead of deporting them all we are doing now is firing them and giving the compay that hired them, based on the fact that they audited 2900 companys and only rasied 3 mil, a small fine and allowing the illegals to just go find another job somewhere else. Is it any wonder that so many people in this counntry dont think that the Gov is serious about doing anything about our borders. A 7 year old could come up with a better plan than what we do now.

 

[Gipper]

I guess for all the bad Obama does, once in a while he does good. Hope this keeps up.

 

[braindrain]

I guess for all the bad Obama does, once in a while he does good. Hope this keeps up.

How exactly is this good. I just dont see this as doing any more good than what we have been doing in the past

 

[jamesrage]

http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=.../www.nytimes.com/2010/07/10/us/10enforce.html



Say what you will about the Obama admin's actions in regards to Az, he seems to be doing quite a decent job in this area.

I disagree with him going after Arizona. I do like the idea of these audits. Hopefully this is not just some token gesture meant to con people into supporting some crock of **** immigration reform that translate into amnesty and hollow promises of enforcement.

 

[Zyphlin]

My only problem is those identified not being arrested. The rest sounds fantastic.

Indeed, while I don't think this is "bad", I think its a bit messy and with a double purpose.

I don't understand the assumption by many in this thread that "getting fired" means "Leaving". Do we have any evidence at all that any or a significant amount of these people left the country? Or that they stayed in the country, found a new job, etc?

If there's actual evidence the former is happening I'd definitely be more apt to applaud it. Without that there seems to be nothing but shuffling around where they're working and an obfuscation to say they're "doing something" without actually doing anything to illegals in reality

 

[MaggieD]

I think most people would agree that if jobs dry up, home they go. If anyone believes we're going to round up millions of illegals and put them thru our justice system to send them home, they're smokin' peyote in the Arizona desert.

 

[cpwill]

well, going after the employers is an excellent solution; but it strikes me that most of these fired workers are just going to go get new jobs. there needs to be an actual punishment.

Oklahoma, as i recall seems to have done okay:

The official unemployment rate in March was 6.6%. The average unemployment rate in 2009 using the most comprehensive definition was 10.5%, the fourth-lowest in the nation (behind three much smaller states), and far lower than the national average of 16.2%. The number of people either working or looking for work has actually grown during the past twelve months (in most states, the labor force has contracted significantly). The economy grew in 2008, and probably did so again in 2009...

The Sooner State’s economic indicators are comparatively positive just about anywhere one looks. Per capita personal income in Oklahoma grew 2.8% between 2007 and 2009; nationally, it fell by 0.7%. The state’s already puny welfare caseload dropped by 11% in 2007 to under 19,000, and stayed there until June 2009. The number of SNAP/Food Stamp recipients in Oklahoma fell in both 2007 and 2008 by a combined 3.8% while rising 6.5% nationally...

 

[Redress]

Indeed, while I don't think this is "bad", I think its a bit messy and with a double purpose.

I don't understand the assumption by many in this thread that "getting fired" means "Leaving". Do we have any evidence at all that any or a significant amount of these people left the country? Or that they stayed in the country, found a new job, etc?

If there's actual evidence the former is happening I'd definitely be more apt to applaud it. Without that there seems to be nothing but shuffling around where they're working and an obfuscation to say they're "doing something" without actually doing anything to illegals in reality

I think it is worth applauding. It's tackling the problem from the right end, and it has, based on the article, been a more effective use of manpower as far as finding illegals. Further it goes after those companies that hire illegals, which I think is a good thing. It's only flaw is that it does not go far enough. So it's a good thing, that falls short of being a great thing.

 

[texmaster]

http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=.../www.nytimes.com/2010/07/10/us/10enforce.html



Say what you will about the Obama admin's actions in regards to Az, he seems to be doing quite a decent job in this area.

How on God's green earth is this a good idea?

From the article:

While the sweeps of the past commonly led to the deportation of such workers, the “silent raids,” as employers call the audits, usually result in the workers being fired, but in many cases they are not deported.

What is the point if you don't pick them up? How many have criminal records? How many will simply move to another job? No, this is a terrible idea that solves nothing. The illegals are still in country and not picked up.

Its a complete farce and once again proves Obama cares nothing about the law if they are simply fired.

 

[MyOwnDrum]

This sounds like positive news.

 

[ric27]

Its a completely idiotic scheme

You lay off a bunch of illegals (many with criminal records) but theres no deportation!! lmao. The fired illegals will only take up new jobs.

The owners or directors of these companies should be thrown in jail and, the illegals rounded up and deported

 

[Aunt Spiker]

Its a completely idiotic scheme

You lay off a bunch of illegals (many with criminal records) but theres no deportation!! lmao. The fired illegals will only take up new jobs.

The owners or directors of these companies should be thrown in jail and, the illegals rounded up and deported

And since Mexico encourages their people to come here illegally . . . and makes no effort to adequately support their own people . . . what makes you feel sure that they just won't hop the fence again?

And again

and again.

There's less to go back to in Mexico than there is here, even if you're here illegally and without real employment.

 

[jamesrage]

Indeed, while I don't think this is "bad", I think its a bit messy and with a double purpose.

I don't understand the assumption by many in this thread that "getting fired" means "Leaving". Do we have any evidence at all that any or a significant amount of these people left the country? Or that they stayed in the country, found a new job, etc?

If there's actual evidence the former is happening I'd definitely be more apt to applaud it. Without that there seems to be nothing but shuffling around where they're working and an obfuscation to say they're "doing something" without actually doing anything to illegals in reality

At first they will not go home.However if enough companies start getting fined they will eventually stop hiring illegals.Which is why I hope that this is not just some token gesture.Even work site raids where illegals are detained and deported if done in a high enough frequency would deter companies from hiring illegals. I prefer that illegals who get caught in work site raids serve the 6 month maximum jail sentence if its their first offense,two years if 2nd offense like the law says they can be before getting deported. I would also prefer that the employer also serve a jail sentence as well as a fine.

 

[ric27]

And since Mexico encourages their people to come here illegally . . . and makes no effort to adequately support their own people . . . what makes you feel sure that they just won't hop the fence again?

If, the US is going to be a country of laws and Illegals are breaking the law then why not deport them when caught?

Letting illegals roam free under our current circumstances is totally asinine

 

[texmaster]

And since Mexico encourages their people to come here illegally . . . and makes no effort to adequately support their own people . . . what makes you feel sure that they just won't hop the fence again?

And again

and again.

There's less to go back to in Mexico than there is here, even if you're here illegally and without real employment.

so we should surrender? Let them live here and ignore our own laws?

 

[Aunt Spiker]

If, the US is going to be a country of laws and Illegals are breaking the law then why not deport them when caught?

Letting illegals roam free under our current circumstances is totally asinine

so we should surrender? Let them live here and ignore our own laws?

Rock and a hard place.
On one hand we could let them stay - turn a blind eye (like we've been doing) - and do nothin . . . but that obviously nets a LOT of other undesirable problems.
Yet on the other hand we could send them back over the border - unfortunately we all know they'll just come right back. There's nothing for them over there.

OR

We could reform the immigration system and put in provisions to permit them to actually earn citizenship if they meet various requirements. . .an 'in process' status. While going through that process over several years we can work on securing the border *and* building a better relation with mexico . . . so perhaps they won't *keep* coming over and immigrating.

OR - we could go extreme and just take over Mexico, absorb it into our country and be done with the whole border altogether :shrug:

None of these seem ideal or favorable but those are our options - that's it. they all have their ups and their downs.

 

[texmaster]

Rock and a hard place.
On one hand we could let them stay - turn a blind eye (like we've been doing) - and do nothin . . . but that obviously nets a LOT of other undesirable problems.
Yet on the other hand we could send them back over the border - unfortunately we all know they'll just come right back. There's nothing for them over there.

OR

We could reform the immigration system and put in provisions to permit them to actually earn citizenship if they meet various requirements. . .an 'in process' status. While going through that process over several years we can work on securing the border *and* building a better relation with mexico . . . so perhaps they won't *keep* coming over and immigrating.

OR - we could go extreme and just take over Mexico, absorb it into our country and be done with the whole border altogether :shrug:

None of these seem ideal or favorable but those are our options - that's it. they all have their ups and their downs.

I agree with James.

Any we find, we deport, no excuses. But before they leave we fingerprint and get DNA. Then we check for other crimes. If they have kids they can take them with them or we put them in foster homes.

They really want to become citizens? back of the line and behind the next 6 months of candidates who obeyed the law.

If they come back again, automatic 6 month jail sentence. Again, 2 year sentence. Again, 5 year sentence

For the employer Automatic 5,000 fine and week in jail. Second Offense 10,000 fine 3 months in jail for owner Third offense 25,000 fine, 1 year in jail for owner.

Wire companies are also required to check id for all transactions. 25k fine if they don't first time, second time 50k third time 100k and jail time for the owner mandatory 2 weeks

We would have to deport very few of them after about 6 months.