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Illegal Immigration

ConservativeShane

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I couldn't find a thread for illegal immigration, and so I thought I'd start my own. I find this to be a very important issue that deserves debate.

My stance on illegal immigration is that it's illegal, and for good reason too. Illegal immigration harms America economically (a low estimate puts costs at $10 billion* annually).

I believe President Bush is wrong on this issue. What he plans to do is basically granting amnesty. Granting amnesty does not solve the problem (we tried this in 1986**). Granting amnesty would raise the cost of current illegals from $10 billion to $29 billion*** annually and would encourage more illegal immigration.

I also believe the Democrats are wrong on this issue. I think if it weren't for the fact that in their eyes Bush can do no right they would support "worker permits". In fact, democrats would probably preffer blanket amnesty. We can't just ignore the problem.

I think that the only thing we can do is try our best to deport as many illegals currently living in America as possible and increase security on the border. Increased funding to the appropriate areas can be easily justified when one examins the cost of illegals.

Please, post your comments.

End Notes:
* - "The High Cost of Cheap Labor" By: Steven A. Camarota of The Center For Immigration Studies.
** - In 1986 congress legalized over three million then illegal aliens. Since than we have seen a huge boom in illegal immigration.
*** - "The High Cost of Cheap Labor" By: Steven A. Camarota of The Center For Immigration Studies.
 
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RNH

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I always feel illegal immigration is a mounting problem to the safety of the country. Thousands are streaming across out borders everyday. President Bush's budget calls for a cut in aid to states to process criminal illegal aliens. I believe if they are here illegally, send them back to where they came from. We need to tighten our borders and prevent criminals from coming in.
 

anomaly

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I actually agree with you. Too many illegal immigrant workers come in here and take jobs that Americans could and should hold. All in the name of profit for businesses. You may want to look into Bush's budget to see that he is actually decreasing border security.
 

Schweddy

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I believe President Bush is wrong on this issue.
:applaud Absolutely. I agree as well.

You may want to look into Bush's budget to see that he is actually decreasing border security.
No, he is not decreasing border security. Excellent spin. He is just not living up to the promises made. He promised 2000 new border patrol agents - but there will only be about 300 this year.
 

Gabo

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As long as our government retains its high regulations and unfair standards for businesses, I'm afraid restrictions on immigration is needed.

However, should they finally remove all these unneeded restrictions, free immigration would work wonderfully, just like it did when our country originated.
 

Chaos10187

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in government, we passed a bill (within the class)

That any alien who wishes to have citizenship, can serve a minimum of 3 yeras in a military branch. And then they will be granted cititzenship once this has been prooven. Background checks are required, etc. What do you guys think?
 

Naughty Nurse

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Chaos10187 said:
in government, we passed a bill (within the class)

That any alien who wishes to have citizenship, can serve a minimum of 3 yeras in a military branch. And then they will be granted cititzenship once this has been prooven. Background checks are required, etc. What do you guys think?
Just a question -why do you call non-Americans "aliens"? I always thought that sounded horrible! :confused:
 

Kenneth T. Cornelius

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Just a question -why do you call non-Americans "aliens"? I always thought that sounded horrible!
Simply means they belong somewhere else. We are aliens when we're in other countries.

Years ago we had a program for admitting Mexican workers, braceros. Guys came here worked at menial jobs and stoop labor in the fields. Seems to me that it worked rather well, and I wondered why we stopped it.
 

Naughty Nurse

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Kenneth T. Cornelius said:
Simply means they belong somewhere else. We are aliens when we're in other countries.
Thanks. Fair enough! (Still sounds horrible to a British ear, though!)
 

Chaos10187

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Naughty Nurse said:
Thanks. Fair enough! (Still sounds horrible to a British ear, though!)
I dont its mean to be insultive. I still think my idea would be a good one, lol.
 

ConservativeShane

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Gabo said:
As long as our government retains its high regulations and unfair standards for businesses, I'm afraid restrictions on immigration is needed.

However, should they finally remove all these unneeded restrictions, free immigration would work wonderfully, just like it did when our country originated.
I'm not a big fan of government regulation, but I'm not sure what it has to do with illegal immigration. Could you elaborate?

By the way, when our country started the size and scope of government was dramatically smaller. Education is now the key factor in determining success. If we opened our borders hundreds of millions of people would come, most of them uneducated and most of the a drain on the economy. Open borders are not a good idea.
 

ConservativeShane

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Kenneth T. Cornelius said:
Simply means they belong somewhere else. We are aliens when we're in other countries.

Years ago we had a program for admitting Mexican workers, braceros. Guys came here worked at menial jobs and stoop labor in the fields. Seems to me that it worked rather well, and I wondered why we stopped it.
I'm not sure what program you're talking about, however if it worked the way you described it than I can imagine why it ended. Worker programs reward illegal immigration, and remember: "If you tax it, you get less of it; if you reward it, you get more of it."
 

Gabo

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ConservativeShane said:
I'm not a big fan of government regulation, but I'm not sure what it has to do with illegal immigration. Could you elaborate?
A couple of things make immigration not work.

1) Welfare would allow thousands to come and live for free off of us. Welfare is a broken system and needs to be ended. Private charities could pick up where welfare leaves off.

2) Minimum wage does a number of things. First, it FORCES companies to pay their employees more than they can afford or more than the job is worth. This makes the companies either stop production or move the jobs overseas. When this happens, the number of jobs available here decreases dramatically. Also, people have a harder time climbing the ladder of success because the bottom rungs have been cut off.

I can't think of any more at the moment, but I'm pretty sure other regulations make immigration stress us and our economy.


ConservativeShane said:
By the way, when our country started the size and scope of government was dramatically smaller. Education is now the key factor in determining success. If we opened our borders hundreds of millions of people would come, most of them uneducated and most of the a drain on the economy. Open borders are not a good idea.
First, the elimination of welfare would prevent them from "draining" on us.

Second, those uneducated could all receive jobs if minimum wage wasn't around.
 

Chaos10187

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ConservativeShane said:
I'm not a big fan of government regulation, but I'm not sure what it has to do with illegal immigration. Could you elaborate?

By the way, when our country started the size and scope of government was dramatically smaller. Education is now the key factor in determining success. If we opened our borders hundreds of millions of people would come, most of them uneducated and most of the a drain on the economy. Open borders are not a good idea.
I agree to a degree, which is why i like my solution. Is they earn their stay by working for the US Military. I mean, after 3-5 years in the US military (esp with the war right now) if that doesnt earn you keep, i dont know what does.
 

RNH

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the word alien means to come from a different country. I guess I could have used illegal immigrant
 

Squawker

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While I agree that we have a serious immigration problem, I can see a benefit to what President Bush is proposing. He wants to document these workers who are here illegally. It would then give the government an identity to keep tabs on. The problem now is the government doesn't even know how many people are here illegally. Having said that, if the government controls that like it does other programs it would be a total mess within ten years anyway.
I think its time to revisit our liberal immigration policy like England is doing now. At some point the cost will not be sustainable. We have more people taking out of the system than people putting in to it.
 

Naughty Nurse

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Squawker said:
I think its time to revisit our liberal immigration policy like England is doing now.
That's happening because we have an election coming up, and immigrants and asylum seekers are easy targets. The politicians here aren't actually talking much sense!
 

Kenneth T. Cornelius

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ConservativeShane said:
I'm not sure what program you're talking about, however if it worked the way you described it than I can imagine why it ended. Worker programs reward illegal immigration, and remember: "If you tax it, you get less of it; if you reward it, you get more of it."
I was writing from memory about the Bracero business, and went back later and checked on it. It turns out that this happened during WWII from 1942 to 1946-8 about. The country needed those workers. The country invited those workers. Comprende? They were legal... LEGAL

How it worked, however, depended on who you were. Their employers were quite happy. The workers might not have been quite that happy. They were ill-housed, ill-fed, overworked and ill-paid. They were also exploited and cheated of much of what they were owed. Would you say they were rewarded?

As a part of their agreement, a sizeable portion of their pay was put into a compulsory savings account to be returned to them when they returned home to Mexico. This was intended to ensure that they did indeed return. Would it surprise you to know that little of that money was actually returned? Surprise, surprise. :eek: In fact, a lawsuit was filed against the US government, the State of California and the employers to regain that money. As of 2004 that suit was still wending its way through the "justice" system.
 

HighSpeed

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Illegal immigrants has more health coverages than most people in the states that, do not even have health coverages. Why is that GW? :thinking
 

Repubteen

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A few quick things,
1)If a pregnant woman crosses the border, and so much as has a finger on US soil while having the baby the baby becomes a US citizen and gets full benefits and you as tax payers have to pay for it.
2) I'm not sure if you guys know but we no longer screen immigrants for dieses. Which could endrager out Country.
 

Kenneth T. Cornelius

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Repubteen said:
A few quick things,
1)If a pregnant woman crosses the border, and so much as has a finger on US soil while having the baby the baby becomes a US citizen and gets full benefits and you as tax payers have to pay for it.
Somehow I can't get as shook up about this as you evidently are. Despite all the show of closing the borders, we somehow seem strangely ineffective. Can it be that we really don't want to close those borders? There are lots of people who are thrilled and delighted to have an exploitable labor force. There is also the possibility that the child might actually turn out to be a tax paying citizen, even as you and me.

2) I'm not sure if you guys know but we no longer screen immigrants for dieses. Which could endrager out Country.
I wonder what they could bring in that isn't already here?
 

JOHNYJ

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Mexico instead of improving the conditions for her own people.Helps them get across our border illegaly.Even the Mexican army helps them.Well its time we showed Mexico the error of her ways. We should use troops to close the entire border.Just close it for a week or a month unti Mexico gets the idea. Let her yell, let her scream.Keep it closed !!!!!
 

Stherngntlmn

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JOHNYJ said:
Mexico instead of improving the conditions for her own people.Helps them get across our border illegaly.Even the Mexican army helps them.Well its time we showed Mexico the error of her ways. We should use troops to close the entire border.Just close it for a week or a month unti Mexico gets the idea. Let her yell, let her scream.Keep it closed !!!!!
I agree. We should pay our troops on a "commission" bassis, per illegal "detoured" from crossing the border.
 

tanenger

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I'm hard pressed to think of anything he has been right on.
 
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