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Illegal Immigrants: American Heroes?

Dans La Lune

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Illegal immigrants:

- Do work that no one else wants to do.
- Among the hardest working people on the planet.
- Basically volunteer to be employer-abused indentured servants.
- Are 3x to 5x less likely to commit crime than your the average American citizen.
- Pay more taxes than they're ever be able to benefit from.
- Support the American economy on their shoulders.
- Contribute more culturally than vast swaths of the population.

There are exceptions to every rule, but these are the facts. Illegal immigrants are American heroes.
 
Some are. But some aren't. As you know.
 
Then WHY do so many countries have entry restrictions?
 
Illegal immigrants:

- Do work that no one else wants to do.
- Among the hardest working people on the planet.
- Basically volunteer to be employer-abused indentured servants.
- Are 3x to 5x less likely to commit crime than your the average American citizen.
- Pay more taxes than they're ever be able to benefit from.
- Support the American economy on their shoulders.
- Contribute more culturally than vast swaths of the population.

There are exceptions to every rule, but these are the facts. Illegal immigrants are American heroes.
shrug...

They would be American heroes if...

1. ...they were American.

2. ...they weren't criminals. (What part of "illegal" do you not understand?)
 
I agree with almost all of that. I'm not sure I'd use the word hero, but I'd use the phrase great contributors to our society, and some things are heroic.
 
So, let me start off by saying that, personally, I have no anger at illegal immigrants (though I think it's wrong), and am a fan of maintaining our current high levels of legal immigration (though I think shifting our system to look more like Canada's may be beneficial). My neighbors are pretty clearly in this demographic (I've never asked), and they are in my house pretty much daily - all our kids are a little mob that runs around - they come to our birthday parties, we go to theirs, etc. They are part of our community.

But hagiographic arguments like this:


Illegal immigrants:

- Do work that no one else wants to do.

Work for wages that no one else wants to work for, and which are often below the minimum costs of hiring an American citizen, driving the price of low skill labor down in many sectors.

- Among the hardest working people on the planet.

Statement without supporting evidence or reason. I recall some pretty long tough days in the Marines.

- Basically volunteer to be employer-abused indentured servants.

That they drive out American labor is not a positive, nor is it positive that they create conditions for wrongful behavior in others.

- Are 3x to 5x less likely to commit crime than your the average American citizen.

As 100%of them are - by definition - here illegally, this would require somewhere between 300 and 500% of Americans be criminals which is, shall we say, unlikely.

Illegal aliens also

A: generally don't report crimes in their community as much as non illegal aliens do,

and

B: often aren't charged or arrested for non violent crimes that non illegal aliens would be charged or arrested for.

Both of which heavily reduce reported rates of other criminal behavior.

- Pay more taxes than they're ever be able to benefit from.

They pay local sales and (indirectly) land taxes, while benefiting from programs paid for with those revenue streams plus income taxes. If they (break more laws, and) create a false identity to file income, well, they also generally pay a negative effective tax rate, due to being low income.

- Support the American economy on their shoulders.

.... Meaningless aphorism. I could just as easily say they keep the world spinning with their elbows, or they have helped to keep multigenerational poor populations in poverty with their kidneys, and it would mean just as much.

- Contribute more culturally than vast swaths of the population.

Respectfully, this comes off as the kind of thing said by someone who unironically uses the term Latinx.​

There are exceptions to every rule, but these are the facts. Illegal immigrants are American heroes.

.... Are very bad arguments. This is like the opposite of steel manning a position.
 
Illegal immigrants:

- Do work that no one else wants to do.
- Among the hardest working people on the planet.
- Basically volunteer to be employer-abused indentured servants.
- Are 3x to 5x less likely to commit crime than your the average American citizen.
- Pay more taxes than they're ever be able to benefit from.
- Support the American economy on their shoulders.
- Contribute more culturally than vast swaths of the population.

There are exceptions to every rule, but these are the facts. Illegal immigrants are American heroes.

I would not go so far as calling them heroes as they did break the law to get here.

Also, the official numbers support some of your claims, my police and District Attorney friends tell me that rather often, they are persuaded not to file or pursue charges against illegal aliens, so crime numbers are likely artificially low.

Also, Biden has made a list of crimes that illegals CAN NOT be charged with, which includes DUI as Biden does not think DUI or money laundering is that big of a deal and therefore illegals can't be deported if these crimes are committed. It is UNFAIR to subject American Citizens to laws, but not illegal aliens.

Doing so is moronic, stupid, asinine and downright wrong. We all should be accountable under the law.

Non-deportable crimes - https://conservatics.com/white-hous...and-drug-related-crimes-will-not-be-deported/

Texas crimes - 3 different groups as listed:


 
I would not go so far as calling them heroes as they did break the law to get here.

Also, the official numbers support some of your claims, my police and District Attorney
Doing so is moronic, stupid, asinine and downright wrong. We all should be accountable under the law.

Non-deportable crimes - https://conservatics.com/white-hous...and-drug-related-crimes-will-not-be-deported/

Texas crimes - 3 different groups as

You’re talking about title 42 regulations which you’re not accurately portraying. The Biden administration proposed title 42 regulation changes prioritizing deportations so the keyword is prioritizing. There is no such thing as a non-deportable crime. ICE continues to prioritize deportations for illegal immigrants who have been arrested for DUI‘s and probably every other thing you mentioned - most Trump era policies never changed. Title 42 regulations can be amended but the president cannot change immigration law by waving his hand. The way things are now continues to be, as in the past, illegal immigrants who are able to retain a competent lawyer are likely to stay in the country and those who can’t will not.

I guess your friends in the district attorney office don’t know the law. Be a good friend and don’t tell us their names

They came off as a bit harsher than I intended I was trying to be a bit tongue-in-cheek no offense
 
I'm all for stamping "American Hero" on their plane ticket home.

If, however, you're looking for real bravery, look to the legal immigrants who did it the right way. They are more courageous.
 
Illegal immigrants:

- Do work that no one else wants to do.
- Among the hardest working people on the planet.
- Basically volunteer to be employer-abused indentured servants.
- Are 3x to 5x less likely to commit crime than your the average American citizen.
- Pay more taxes than they're ever be able to benefit from.
- Support the American economy on their shoulders.
- Contribute more culturally than vast swaths of the population.

There are exceptions to every rule, but these are the facts. Illegal immigrants are American heroes.

Your own “rules” contain exceptions - how can illegal immigrants (with a 100% crime rate, by definition) be less likely to commit crime?
 
Illegal immigrants:

- Do work that no one else wants to do.
- Among the hardest working people on the planet.
- Basically volunteer to be employer-abused indentured servants.
- Are 3x to 5x less likely to commit crime than your the average American citizen.
- Pay more taxes than they're ever be able to benefit from.
- Support the American economy on their shoulders.
- Contribute more culturally than vast swaths of the population.

There are exceptions to every rule, but these are the facts. Illegal immigrants are American heroes.
So you support companies breaking the law?

Undocumented immigration, and employers who utilize undocumented workers, are a burden on our country.

Employers that hire undocumented workers are BREAKING THE LAW.

The employment of undocumented workers drives wages for legal, unskilled labor DOWN. It puts a strain on government because resources need to be spent to find and prosecute these employers. It puts a burden on citizens, green card holders and legal immigrants - because processes for screening employees for legal status become more and more stringent and time consuming.

Including the very same hard working immigrants that came here LEGALLY wanting the opportunity to work hard and earn an honest and LEGAL living for themselves and their families.

The immigration system needs a complete overhaul. But applauding those that didn’t follow the system and calling them “heroes”? No. That’s a bridge too far. They broke the law. And employers that hire them are breaking the law and engaging in unjust, vile employment practices aimed only at keeping wages down artificially and illegally.
 
The legal distinction is tricky. One can be legal one day and illegal the next, but still be the exact same person! This was the plight of Jewish people in Germany.

One should be very careful in judging people based on their legality.
 
The legal distinction is tricky. One can be legal one day and illegal the next, but still be the exact same person! This was the plight of Jewish people in Germany.

One should be very careful in judging people based on their legality.
Agree completely.

I don’t think many people fully comprehend how complex the US immigration system is.
 
If there were no restrictions, you couldn't have illegal immigration. Simple that...
Well, duh! but then WHY are there restrictions? What is it about ILLEGAL that liberals do not understand?
 
If there were no restrictions, you couldn't have illegal immigration. Simple that...

One political party needs a marginalized group to bash and fear-monger.
 
Well, duh! but then WHY are there restrictions? What is it about ILLEGAL that liberals do not understand?

These threads give us some insight into who would have been most likely to return runaway slaves or turn in the Jewish family hiding in their neighbor's attic.
 
And that’s just a piece of it!

I’d wager the vast majority of currently “illegal” status immigrants aren’t ones that came over the southern border.

Most overstayed their visas.

The year Trump was elected with the promise to stop people from coming here illegally by crossing the border, more immigrants had, in fact, over the previous ten years, been crossing the border to leave the country.
 
Most overstayed their visas.
Yep. And employers that take advantage of a Visa holders blurring the “line” between legal/illegal/unethical.

I don’t necessarily blame the people - I blame the employers using questionable hiring practices.

If employers were above board, there wouldn’t BE an immigration problem.
 
So you support companies breaking the law?

Undocumented immigration, and employers who utilize undocumented workers, are a burden on our country.

Employers that hire undocumented workers are BREAKING THE LAW.

The employment of undocumented workers drives wages for legal, unskilled labor DOWN. It puts a strain on government because resources need to be spent to find and prosecute these employers. It puts a burden on citizens, green card holders and legal immigrants - because processes for screening employees for legal status become more and more stringent and time consuming.

Including the very same hard working immigrants that came here LEGALLY wanting the opportunity to work hard and earn an honest and LEGAL living for themselves and their families.

The immigration system needs a complete overhaul. But applauding those that didn’t follow the system and calling them “heroes”? No. That’s a bridge too far. They broke the law. And employers that hire them are breaking the law and engaging in unjust, vile employment practices aimed only at keeping wages down artificially and illegally.
Then employers should be targeted, putting the onus on the homeowner to check the papers of the cat who cuts his grass, as well as companies.
Years ago I was employed in moving a plating shop in LA to a new Location. The polishing shop could go empty with a call of "Immigration". The wheels would still be spinning & only a handful of citizens buffers left in the building.
 
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Yep. And employers that take advantage of a Visa holders blurring the “line” between legal/illegal/unethical.

I don’t necessarily blame the people - I blame the employers using questionable hiring practices.

If employers were above board, there wouldn’t BE an immigration problem.

A simple way to solve this at very little cost or use of resources is to simply give the works a legal status.

But how will Americans feel about paying more when their wages go up?
 
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