Illegal Imigrants

[dubya]

I don't know if this has been brought up but I know quite a bit about this,being maried to someone from another country for 10 years I learned all their loopholes and how they get around the system.So if you'd like I can enlighten anyone on what I know.

 

[Axismaster]

Immigrants themselves tend to get a bad rap from society. I think it is sad, as we are built on immigrants and they provide growth to the economy. Still, if you want to immigrate here you should be expected to obey our laws and pay taxes.

 

[Comrade Brian]

I myself am an Internationalist, I don't really believe in the idea of borders and such. The Earth belongs to all, and no one should have the right to arrest someone else for "trespassing", even on private property, and I don't think it should be illegal for someone to go somewhere because they come from somewhere else.

 

[Axismaster]

So you want people just being able to walk around on your land and take a crap in your yard if they want to? You want people to be able to walk around in front of your windows when you are trying to sleep? This whole idea of no borders and no property sounds great, and I admit it pisses me off greatly when somebody gets ticked for somebody stepping onto their land, but there are certain problems that would result from getting rid of them. Though I must admit if truly free borders and trade existed, it would help people the world over. That is the problem, people complain about "free trade" but they are thinking of NAFTA and CAFTA, which are just managed trade. Truly free trade would truly help people in Africa and other places get a leg-up, that is as long as nobody was exploiting them. I am a free marketeer, but I believe a genuine free market is one with restrictions on exploiting humans like resources.

 

[Comrade Brian]

So you want people just being able to walk around on your land and take a crap in your yard if they want to?

I find that the yard is just about anyone else's as it is mine, but I might get annoyed from what you said, but most people wouldn't because of an invention of toilets and such. But I would not necessarily take action.

You want people to be able to walk around in front of your windows when you are trying to sleep?

I wouldn't as long as its quiet, though I find that most people wouldn't just walk around, most people are considerate of others, and don't do most of what you're claiming.

This whole idea of no borders and no property sounds great

It is great.

but there are certain problems that would result from getting rid of them

Such as?

Though I must admit if truly free borders and trade existed, it would help people the world over

Possibly, but I find the concept of "free trade" to be quite harmful to workers around the world.

That is the problem, people complain about "free trade" but they are thinking of NAFTA and CAFTA, which are just managed trade

When did this become a "free trade" arguement?

Truly free trade would truly help people in Africa and other places get a leg-up, that is as long as nobody was exploiting them

Such as corporations? The torch-bearer of capitalism now.

I am a free marketeer, but I believe a genuine free market is one with restrictions on exploiting humans like resources.

Then you might as well throw out capitalism and private property, the very way to make profits is in some way, stealing. Look at the "theory of surplus value" it explains it.

 

[COBRA]

Its funny on how were all created equal ( according to the constitution ) yet we deprive a poor mom ,that is pregnant &, that her only way to buy milk for her kids is to walk or take the bus because, she was denied a drivers license . :roll: and better yet because she is an "illegal immigrant" trying to better her life we degrade most of them for their " status on the us. " incredible on what America has turned into :doh

 

[jamesrage]

Immigrants themselves tend to get a bad rap from society..

It is illegal aliens that get a bad rap from society,they are law breakers who should not be here and if they want to be a citizen here then they can do it legally.Scew all this international horseshit.

Still, if you want to immigrate here you should be expected to obey our laws and pay taxes

I agree with that,but legal immigrints should also be expected to assimilate into our country.

 

[Blue Collar Joe]

Lets call them what they are. Illegal Aliens. Immigrants grants them some semblance of legality,and they have none. They come here, get on our welfare doles, and mooch, working under the table, not paying any taxes, and doing nothing of benefit to our society.
Its a sad thing when one of Mexico's leading sources of income is money sent back to Mexico by illegal aliens.
The local police should have the right to arrest them and hold them until Immigration picks them up and deports them.
And end the catch and release programs on the borders. That is assinine as well.
I have no issue with those who come to America by following the laws. If you don't, then stay out.

 

[jamesrage]

Lets call them what they are. Illegal Aliens. Immigrants grants them some semblance of legality,and they have none. .

You are right.So I change my previous post to reflect that.

The local police should have the right to arrest them and hold them until Immigration picks them up and deports them.

They should have this right because illegal aliens ar ebreaking the law and the police should have the right to arrest any law breaker.

And end the catch and release programs on the borders. That is assinine as well.

My idea would be to drop them off on Vincenti Fox's lawn or at least a supermax prison for a year before being sent back to their country of origin.

 

[Blue Collar Joe]

A few of the laws I'd like to see implemented? If you are found employing an illegal alien, you should be fined $10,000 per illegal that you employ.
If you rent a property to an illegal alien, you should forfeit the property to a poor family in the area that is legal/american.
Any state/federal employee that gives a drivers license/ID/welfare check to an illegal alien should lose their job on the spot. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.
If they show up at the hospital, they get required treatment to get them well, and INS is standing by, (properly notified by the hospital) to haul their arse back to the border and boot them across.
Make it where it isn't worth coming over. Otherwise, we'll never end the problem.

 

[jamesrage]

A few of the laws I'd like to see implemented? If you are found employing an illegal alien, you should be fined $10,000 per illegal that you employ.
If you rent a property to an illegal alien, you should forfeit the property to a poor family in the area that is legal/american.
Any state/federal employee that gives a drivers license/ID/welfare check to an illegal alien should lose their job on the spot. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.
If they show up at the hospital, they get required treatment to get them well, and INS is standing by, (properly notified by the hospital) to haul their arse back to the border and boot them across.
Make it where it isn't worth coming over. Otherwise, we'll never end the problem.

Good post,it addresses the fact that we need to discourage illegal immigration here at the local level.

 

[COBRA]

A few of the laws I'd like to see implemented? If you are found employing an illegal alien, you should be fined $10,000 per illegal that you employ.
If you rent a property to an illegal alien, you should forfeit the property to a poor family in the area that is legal/american.
Any state/federal employee that gives a drivers license/ID/welfare check to an illegal alien should lose their job on the spot. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.
If they show up at the hospital, they get required treatment to get them well, and INS is standing by, (properly notified by the hospital) to haul their arse back to the border and boot them across.
Make it where it isn't worth coming over. Otherwise, we'll never end the problem.

Wow & you consider yourself an American :roll: Whatever happen to your moral standards. These people aren't dogs they are humans that are here to make a better living,. it seems to me that your Average Joe wants to deprive any country or people that seem to be a threat. When in reality they are here to make better of themselves. & yes they do pay taxes Because its just that some employers claim that they don't. Also I'm glad that Workers Comp is in effect for some states because if they do get hurt @ work, taxpayers then have to settle the bill & costs. Thats why its good to have workers comp.
Also having a drivers license is intended to make sure people know how to drive rather then to state your residence. there are lots of Dumb A S S people who can't drive yet still manage to get a license. It is not right to deprive Aliens from a drivers license. Does this also mean we have to deprive tourists or international foreigners from obtaining a drivers license???? NO WAY pal! Maybe Americans should focus more on pedophiles that drive to little kids home & rape :doh rather then focusing on something that is inevitable.

& why would you fine someone 10,000 dollars that is only trying to help ?????? :doh
That type of idealogy really degrades What America is all about ( A FREE COUNTRY ) where it was literally founded my immigrants. Maybe some of you should consider being in their shoes one day. i just pity the fact that most of this crap comes from people that have no clue what's it like to be in a country that degrades your because of your status.... Incredible....

 

[jamesrage]

Wow & you consider yourself an American :roll: Whatever happen to your moral standards. These people aren't dogs they are humans that are here to make a better living,. it seems to me that your Average Joe wants to deprive any country or people that seem to be a threat. When in reality they are here to make better of themselves. & yes they do pay taxes Because its just that some employers claim that they don't. Also I'm glad that Workers Comp is in effect for some states because if they do get hurt @ work, taxpayers then have to settle the bill & costs. Thats why its good to have workers comp.
Also having a drivers license is intended to make sure people know how to drive rather then to state your residence. there are lots of Dumb A S S people who can't drive yet still manage to get a license. It is not right to deprive Aliens from a drivers license. Does this also mean we have to deprive tourists or international foreigners from obtaining a drivers license???? NO WAY pal! Maybe Americans should focus more on pedophiles that drive to little kids home & rape :doh rather then focusing on something that is inevitable.

& why would you fine someone 10,000 dollars that is only trying to help ?????? :doh
That type of idealogy really degrades What America is all about ( A FREE COUNTRY ) where it was literally founded my immigrants. Maybe some of you should consider being in their shoes one day. i just pity the fact that most of this crap comes from people that have no clue what's it like to be in a country that degrades your because of your status.... Incredible....

Illegal aliens are breaking the law by being here.As far as I know it is a punishable offense to aid a criminal.Why these greedy business owners that employ criminals are fined and jailed supprises me.Anyone who assist these criminals should be fined,jailed and or their business taken away.

 

[COBRA]

Definition of a Criminal dictionary.com

Of, involving, or having the nature of crime: criminal abuse.
Relating to the administration of penal law.

Guilty of crime.
Characteristic of a criminal.
Shameful; disgraceful: a criminal waste of talent.

n.
One that has committed or been legally convicted of a crime.


hmm,,,,, SO we consider Innocent people that are working for minimum wage criminals.... hmmm.. :doh SO does that mean people that Over-stay their visa's are criminals. ... I would consider a pedophile who roams the streets lurking for little kids a criminal. :roll: BUT! Simply because they Don't have documentation :thinking

 

[jamesrage]

Definition of a Criminal dictionary.com

Of, involving, or having the nature of crime: criminal abuse.
Relating to the administration of penal law.

Guilty of crime.
Characteristic of a criminal.
Shameful; disgraceful: a criminal waste of talent.

n.
One that has committed or been legally convicted of a crime.

If you come into this country illegally and stay here illegally you are a breaking the law,therefore you are a criminal.

hmm,,,,, SO we consider Innocent people that are working for minimum wage criminals.... hmmm.. :doh

Illegal immigrints are not innocent of breaking immigration laws.

SO does that mean people that Over-stay their visa's are criminals. ...

Yes they are criminals they are here illegally,therefor they are breaking the law and therefore they are criminals.

 

[Blue Collar Joe]

Wow & you consider yourself an American :roll: Whatever happen to your moral standards. These people aren't dogs they are humans that are here to make a better living,. it seems to me that your Average Joe wants to deprive any country or people that seem to be a threat. When in reality they are here to make better of themselves. & yes they do pay taxes Because its just that some employers claim that they don't. Also I'm glad that Workers Comp is in effect for some states because if they do get hurt @ work, taxpayers then have to settle the bill & costs. Thats why its good to have workers comp.
Also having a drivers license is intended to make sure people know how to drive rather then to state your residence. there are lots of Dumb A S S people who can't drive yet still manage to get a license. It is not right to deprive Aliens from a drivers license. Does this also mean we have to deprive tourists or international foreigners from obtaining a drivers license???? NO WAY pal! Maybe Americans should focus more on pedophiles that drive to little kids home & rape :doh rather then focusing on something that is inevitable.

& why would you fine someone 10,000 dollars that is only trying to help ?????? :doh
That type of idealogy really degrades What America is all about ( A FREE COUNTRY ) where it was literally founded my immigrants. Maybe some of you should consider being in their shoes one day. i just pity the fact that most of this crap comes from people that have no clue what's it like to be in a country that degrades your because of your status.... Incredible....

Quit twisting my words. They are here ILLEGALLY. Minimum wage? Rarely. I am aware of a few that are working here in my town. $4.00 an hour. No way can anyone compete. They also will never get workers comp.
You are trying to equate criminal activity with being moral and upstanding. Every illegal will only hinder and reduce the chance for another immigrant who is going through proper channels to get a VISA. Those whose Visa are expiring can go back and get it renewed in most cases.
Illegals hurt their own countrymen trying to immigrate. I haven't degraded anyones status. A criminal is a criminal.

 

[Naughty Nurse]

Here in the UK employers are responsible for ensuring that their employees are working here legally - quite rightly so. Countries have immigration restrictions for very good reasons.

 

[Naughty Nurse]

Quit twisting my words. They are here ILLEGALLY. Minimum wage? Rarely. I am aware of a few that are working here in my town. $4.00 an hour. No way can anyone compete.

I agree. Illegal immigrants make life difficult for those legal residents who are on the lowest wages by forcing the wage even lower. Employers who employee these people should be very heavily fined.

 

[Blue Collar Joe]

Correct. And they also don't pay social security taxes, or state and federal. They only pay taxes when they buy something. Otherwise, the money just goes back to Mexico.

 

[Axismaster]

Correct. And they also don't pay social security taxes, or state and federal. They only pay taxes when they buy something. Otherwise, the money just goes back to Mexico.

I personally like the idea of paying a national sales tax and eliminating income taxes.

 

[128shot]

Does the USA have capital gains tax?

 

[Axismaster]

Does the USA have capital gains tax?

I have no idea. And on the subject of illegal immigrants, I guess I have had a bit of a change. I used to embrace immigration until I heard about all the TB and other diseases they bring, so now I am a bit pensive, of course I am a former libertarian.

 

[Latina1]

For your information, undocumented workers pay taxes through the TIN system.

There is not proof that they take from the government more than what they provide. Those are just speculations.

Take a look around and see how many immigrants there are in this country (excluding 2, 3rd and 4th generation immigrants like yourself) , now how do you know which one is illegal or not?

Brown skin?
you don't know, so how do you know they take more than what they provide to America's society?
Do not repeat whatever is in the media just because of it.

Instead of complaining about it, people should fight for their rights as they are being abused by the system. The get exploited by business owners, do not have benefits, get killed by police officers and border patrol.
I have been in both sides and let me tell you, if you don't have money youcan not come the legal way, and if you have money, few people with money want to come. So they don't have other choice, they just want to work. They aren't criminals.

History repeats itself. This time there aren't indians shooting white Europeans, now we have republicans.The only difference is that they como to work, not to conquer.

I can't comprehend how many people don't see the real picture here. People who have family to support, kids at home, all they want is work. The want to be illegally here as much as you do.

You were born in this country thanks to your immigrant ancestors who came here. Laws were not enforce like they are now. I bet if they were, they could had been labels as ilegall too. Besides what law? they just came here and killed every indian who was on their way.

History repeats itself, the only difference is that nobody is coming to conquer anything, just to work, they won't kill anyone.

 

[Latina1]

I have no idea. And on the subject of illegal immigrants, I guess I have had a bit of a change. I used to embrace immigration until I heard about all the TB and other diseases they bring, so now I am a bit pensive, of course I am a former libertarian.

"whites are known to bring diseases to america, that is why many for not saying thousands of indians die"

TB is here, is not being brought by undocumented workers, they are healthier than many people, they are strong. That is just propaganda.

 

[nkgupta80]

"whites are known to bring diseases to america, that is why many for not saying thousands of indians die"

TB is here, is not being brought by undocumented workers, they are healthier than many people, they are strong. That is just propaganda.

either way, the simple matter is that they shouldn't enter this country illegally. Simple as that. Yes they can be hardworking, yes they may be good people, but they just can't break the law thats established.

Now for the people who are already here, I don't think deporting them or arresting them would be a good idea. Arresting them would probably turn many good people into criminals, deporting them would just be a hassle and make us look bad.