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If you'd consider voting for Justin Amash for President...

Who would you vote for if Amash pulled out on Nov 2?

  • Trump

    Votes: 5 20.0%
  • Biden

    Votes: 15 60.0%
  • Neither - would stay home or another 3rd party

    Votes: 5 20.0%

  • Total voters
    25
A vote for Amash is tantamount to taking a vote away from Biden.

No thanks.
 
Of course you can't draw and conclusions from this pole. This is all speculation. I wouldn't consider people who would vote for Amash but would vote for Biden as a second choice and not Trump to be Biden supporters. I think it more likely that they are independents who dislike Trump. They could also be moderate Republicans who dislike Trump, but would rather not vote for a Democrat. I think these are anti-Trump voters, not pro Biden.

Not what I am saying. I am saying precisely what the question indicates. That if Amash isn't running the vote for Biden. Not what political stripe they call their own. Only that in a two party race they are Biden voters.

So, a three party race means, if we extrapolate from this test poll, more than 3:1 loss to Biden of voters who would vote for him over Trump but didn't because Amash was in the race. See?
 
Justin Amash MAY launch a Presidential bid. Let's assume he runs for the purposes of this poll.

Please only vote here if you would SERIOUSLY CONSIDER voting for Amash.

If you would NOT vote for Amash, please do NOT vote on this poll.

Question: If you had to choose between Biden and Trump (e.g. if Amash changed his mind in the end) who would you vote for?

I just couldn't vote in your poll. I would CONSIDER voting for Amash but that means just consider. I would have probably voted in your poll if you had a response that if Amash pulled out just before the election I would vote for either Trump or another third party. I would not stay home if Amash pulled out, because I would only consider voting for him in the first place.
 
I tend to vote libertarian, and seeing that Trump and Biden is the choice the Republocrat Oligarchy came up with, I cannot see that trend changing in 2020. Amash is considering to run as a libertarian, so we'll see. I do like if the LP can draw people who have had elected offices as I think that gives them experience and legitimacy to the campaign.

I'm not sure Americans even know what parties are anymore. We've had Libertarians run as Republicans, the Tea party and Freedom Caucus run as Republicans, Trump running as a Republican, Bernie Sanders running as a Democrat, and now Amash running as a Libertarian. Where are the drawn lines? Who's who? If Amash was running as a Republican you wouldn't vote for him but if he runs as a Libertarian you would vote for him. Has he changed in any way?
 
Perhaps it's because they're tired of the serial sex offender with the (R) next to his name

Well, that certainly explains it. We wouldn't want a serial sex offender with the (R) next to his name so let's vote for the serial sex offender with the (D) next to his name.
 
Maybe. It's hard to tell. These could be Republicans or right leaning independents looking for an alternative to Trump.

You've got to remember and understand that polls aren't as reliable as they used to be. Many are closet Trump supporters who lie to the pollsters.
 
"Serial".... are there multiple allegations of sexual offenses on the part Biden or have just seen the same story 20 times? But, you do raise an important issue: sex offenders don't do it once; its a serial problem. Now, if serial sex offenders bother you certainly won't be voting for Trump who has 25 allegations against him, some so serious they are working their way through the courts.

Donald Trump sexual misconduct allegations - Wikipedia

I guess you will be voting for Amash, eh?

This cracks me up: Trump supporters trying to tarnish the competition with allegations of immorality while supporting a man that has almost ZERO morality. That dog don't hunt!

Accusations are just accusations. It's dirty politics to just have a bunch of people accuse someone of something for pure political reasons. This is what our country has devolved into. And, even though some people may have had something happen to them they exaggerate it to the max. "Oh he tried to kiss me in an elevator and I didn't want to be kissed". Tough ****. "He put his hand on my back or shoulder and it made me uncomfortable". Tough ****.
 
Viable being the key word. He'll never win so one way or another America is doomed to four more years of Trump or Biden. A voter can choose not to choose, so to speak, but they'll still be stuck with one or the other.

Even though I am on the opposite side of YOUR fence, I agree. If you vote for "someone else" you have still voted for one of the two.
 
I'm not sure Americans even know what parties are anymore. We've had Libertarians run as Republicans, the Tea party and Freedom Caucus run as Republicans, Trump running as a Republican, Bernie Sanders running as a Democrat, and now Amash running as a Libertarian. Where are the drawn lines? Who's who? If Amash was running as a Republican you wouldn't vote for him but if he runs as a Libertarian you would vote for him. Has he changed in any way?

Some people do change their political platforms over time. Amash is currently an independent and was looking at a long shot Presidential bid through the LP. He'd have to present himself and his platform to libertarians, and if his platform aligned with the libertarian platform well and he did a good job in the campaign, he could advance to win the nomination. Would I vote for him as a libertarian over Biden and Trump in such an unlikely case? Likely yes. I can't stand Biden or Trump and my vote is better served going to the third parties in such a case. Additionally, he would have had to make it through the libertarian primaries, meaning his political platform would have to be largely aligned with mine. The LP needs the votes, and the only way to get the votes is to vote for the LP. It's quite important to try to aggregate votes in the LP, to reach the arbitrary thresholds set by the Republocrat Oligarchy in order to participate. So voting for Amash as a libertarian candidate is worth more to me than voting for him as a Republican candidate.

That being said, while I tend to vote for the libertarian candidate, I never said that I would exclusively vote for them all the time. The days of my loyal party voting ended when I left the GOP. If I don't like the R or D candidate, I certainly am not going to vote for them. Trump and Biden are trash, it's illogical to vote for trash. But lets say that it was Biden vs Amash and that Amash did align well with my political ideology and platform and that I felt he'd do the best job as President compared to all the other candidates. In such a case, I would likely vote for him, even if he were running as a Republican.

There are things to like about Amash, and I think he ended up seeing what others who became disillusioned in the Republocrat oligarchy have come to see.

Justin Amash Explores Third-Party Presidential Run : NPR

In an op-ed explaining his decision, Amash said he'd become disenchanted with the state of modern politics, which he described as being "trapped in a partisan death spiral."

"The two-party system has evolved into an existential threat to American principles and institutions," Amash wrote.

He's not wrong. It's part of the reason he left the GOP and part of the reason he's looking at the LP. It's also part of the reason I vote 3rd party. The Republocrat Oligarchy has a stranglehold on America and keeps us complicit through the use of hyperpartisan idiocy. Every election cycle we select worse and worse candidates because we've fooled ourselves into thinking there's only two choices and the other side is so much worse we have to vote for our side. Which also explains why I would be more apt to vote for him as a libertarian candidate than a main party candidate, my vote is against the established oligarchy and I would rather we have proper political competition as proper competition aids the health of the Republic.

So if Amash were somehow to win the LP nomination, would I vote for him instead of Biden or Trump? Of course. Biden and Trump are trash. If Amash somehow won the Republican nomination, would I vote for him instead of Biden or the LP Candidate? I'd have to consider it, it's possible and it would depend on the LP candidate and how he/she would stack against Amash.
 
Maybe. It's hard to tell. These could be Republicans or right leaning independents looking for an alternative to Trump.

But the question is phrased, if no Amash who do you vote for? It’s a ridiculously low sampling of only those who’d involve themselves on this site, in this thread, but it suggests Amash’s voters are from Biden supporters pool by over 3:1.

A vote for Amash is tantamount to taking a vote away from Biden.

Yes, the intended goal of my poll was to see whether Biden or Trump would suffer more from Amish candidacy.

If people answered the poll correctly (and at least a couple posters mentioned they did not - they would not really consider Amish's candidacy), then indeed, Amash would take more votes out of Biden camp than Trump camp.

... It's also part of the reason I vote 3rd party. The Republocrat Oligarchy has a stranglehold on America and keeps us complicit through the use of hyperpartisan idiocy. Every election cycle we select worse and worse candidates because we've fooled ourselves into thinking there's only two choices and the other side is so much worse we have to vote for our side. Which also explains why I would be more apt to vote for him as a libertarian candidate than a main party candidate, my vote is against the established oligarchy and I would rather we have proper political competition as proper competition aids the health of the Republic.

I think I understand your reason but I can't relate to it in an election when someone like Trump is a possible outcome. Your approach makes more sense to me when 2 candidates are roughly equally bad. Not so much though when there is a vast difference.
 
I think I understand your reason but I can't relate to it in an election when someone like Trump is a possible outcome. Your approach makes more sense to me when 2 candidates are roughly equally bad. Not so much though when there is a vast difference.

The problem is that every election, at least according to the Oligarchs and their cheerleaders, is one in which "the other side is so much worse". So going by that, one would never end up voting 3rd party and we're still stuck in the same cycle. The only way to break a cycle is to break it. Trump may be so bad, so vote third party instead of the Oligarchy and perhaps we have someone who is actually good. The oligarchy has no pressure to change so long as we keep voting for it.
 
Yes, the intended goal of my poll was to see whether Biden or Trump would suffer more from Amish candidacy.

If people answered the poll correctly (and at least a couple posters mentioned they did not - they would not really consider Amish's candidacy), then indeed, Amash would take more votes out of Biden camp than Trump camp.



I think I understand your reason but I can't relate to it in an election when someone like Trump is a possible outcome. Your approach makes more sense to me when 2 candidates are roughly equally bad. Not so much though when there is a vast difference.

I have a visceral reaction against the notion of taking votes away from Biden or Trump. It supposes that votes belong to the candidates instead of the voters. My vote belongs to me until I give it to a candidate by voting. If a voter hasn't decided to vote for Biden, that vote isn't his.
 
The problem is that every election, at least according to the Oligarchs and their cheerleaders, is one in which "the other side is so much worse". So going by that, one would never end up voting 3rd party and we're still stuck in the same cycle. The only way to break a cycle is to break it. Trump may be so bad, so vote third party instead of the Oligarchy and perhaps we have someone who is actually good. The oligarchy has no pressure to change so long as we keep voting for it.

Sorry, but I just don't see 2016 and 2020, with Trump as possibility, as same kind of difference as prior elections. You are right that many people were saying the same thing for every election, but it's the same as with any advertisements - they all tout the "best deal ever", but you have to decide for yourself for when it really is a good deal.

If anything, Trump showed us how much less important were those differences before 2016 IMO.

I have a visceral reaction against the notion of taking votes away from Biden or Trump. It supposes that votes belong to the candidates instead of the voters. My vote belongs to me until I give it to a candidate by voting. If a voter hasn't decided to vote for Biden, that vote isn't his.

Sorry if my phrasing was poor. Of course every vote belongs to the voter. "Amash taking votes away from X" just means "less people would vote for X if Amash did not run". I can see how one may think a vote belonged to "X" but really (to me) it just means voter would chose to give it to X. No offense is meant by this; sorry, if it does. If it helps, I think it in fact shows that voters have a choice and would choose Amash over their prior first-choice.

At the end of the day, this thread was meant to get a glimpse of who is more likely to gain from Amash's entry into the race. Going by this (small and unreliable) poll, Trump would.
 
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Sorry, but I just don't see 2016 and 2020, with Trump as possibility, as same kind of difference as prior elections. You are right that many people were saying the same thing for every election, but it's the same as with any advertisements - they all tout the "best deal ever", but you have to decide for yourself for when it really is a good deal.

If anything, Trump showed us how much less important were those differences before 2016 IMO.

Yup, and in 2024 and 2028 and 2032 and 2036 etc the same excuse to support the Oligarchy and it's contrived Republocrat hegemony over any third party will be used.

Hear it all the time.

And round and round we'll go. And each election cycle we'll get something just a little bit worse. This is how we lose the Republic. I reject the faux dichotomy and refuse to vote for a stinky warm pile of dog **** just because the other stinky warm pile of dog **** is slightly stinkier.
 
I reject the faux dichotomy and refuse to vote for a stinky warm pile of dog **** just because the other stinky warm pile of dog **** is slightly stinkier.

That's the disconnect. You think it's just "slightly" stinkier. I think outside of 2016 and 2020, we've never had a bigger gap between the two options (at least in my voting life time). You think "We've heard it all before". I think "Yes we have, but now it's clearly true".
 
That's the disconnect. You think it's just "slightly" stinkier. I think outside of 2016 and 2020, we've never had a bigger gap between the two options (at least in my voting life time).

One 70+ year old, womanizing, status quo, corporate statist, corrupt criminal or a different 70+, womanizing, status quo, corporate statist, corrupt criminal who won't tweet quite as much.

I'll grant that Biden won't be nearly as embarrassing as Trump, but I really want a GOOD President. I'm not going to get "good" from the Republocrat Oligarchy.
 
One 70+ year old, womanizing, status quo, corporate statist, corrupt criminal or a different 70+, womanizing, status quo, corporate statist, corrupt criminal who won't tweet quite as much.

Now think about this:
- who would do better for environment
- who would do better for education
- who would have better government response to emergencies
- who is more likely to get us into a World War 3 based on a random whim
- who is going to rely on scientists and experts more
- who is more stable
- who is more trustworthy
- who would look out for the middle class more
- who is more likely to abandon any kinds of oversight over Executive Power and lead to a constitutional crisis
- who is more like to inspire more violence

If you don't have a clear answer to these, then indeed, perhaps they are about the same to you...
 
Now think about this:
- who would do better for environment
- who would do better for education
- who would have better government response to emergencies
- who is more likely to get us into a World War 3 based on a random whim
- who is going to rely on scientists and experts more
- who is more stable
- who is more trustworthy
- who would look out for the middle class more
- who is more likely to abandon any kinds of oversight over Executive Power and lead to a constitutional crisis
- who is more like to inspire more violence

If you don't have a clear answer to these, then indeed, perhaps they are about the same to you...

Biden might do better for the EPA, though he's still bought and paid for by major corps so a small improvement, but likely not all that is needed
Biden would status quo the Education, I think Trump has more or less been along that same line
Biden might do better here if he can keep coherence for more than 3 minutes. But certainly wouldn't make it quite as contentious as Trump has made it.
Biden supports the Infinity War
Biden likely would listen to scientists when it suits his agenda. Trump certainly won't unless they happen to be sucking his ass at the same time.
Biden I don't think is completely there
Biden is certainly not trustworthy. I wouldn't trust Biden or Trump with a ham sandwich
Biden is rich and supported by the New Aristocracy, no Republocrat has really given a **** about the middle class since Carter
Biden is of the Republocrat Oligarchy and these folk have been growing Presidential power for decades. Not only would Biden do nothing to curtail that, he'd use everything Trump has used thus far
Biden may inspire more people to nap, so he likely has the edge here.
 
I have had a look who he is:

Justin Amash (/əˈmɑːʃ/; born April 18, 1980) is an American lawyer, activist and politician who has served as the U.S. Representative for Michigan's 3rd congressional district since 2011. Originally a member of the Republican Party, Amash became an independent in July 2019 before joining the Libertarian Party in April 2020.

A native of Grand Rapids, Michigan, Amash was born to Arab Christian parents who had immigrated to the United States. After high school, he studied economics at the University of Michigan, then earned a law degree at the University of Michigan Law School and briefly worked as a corporate lawyer before entering politics.

Amash represented the 72nd district in the Michigan House of Representatives for one term before being elected to Congress in 2010. From January 2011 to January 2019, Amash missed only one of 5,374 roll call votes although he has been criticized for his high level of present votes.[2][3] Amash chaired the Liberty Caucus and is the first and only Libertarian to hold a seat in Congress. Amash received national attention when he became the first Republican congressman to call for the impeachment of Donald Trump, a position he maintained after leaving the party.

Although it was speculated that he would run for the Libertarian nomination for the 2020 presidential election, he chose to run for reelection to the House as an independent.[4][5] On April 28, 2020, he announced the formation of an exploratory committee to seek the Libertarian presidential nomination.

Justin Amash - Wikipedia
 
Biden might do better for the EPA, though he's still bought and paid for by major corps so a small improvement, but likely not all that is needed
Biden would status quo the Education, I think Trump has more or less been along that same line
Biden might do better here if he can keep coherence for more than 3 minutes. But certainly wouldn't make it quite as contentious as Trump has made it.
Biden supports the Infinity War
Biden likely would listen to scientists when it suits his agenda. Trump certainly won't unless they happen to be sucking his ass at the same time.
Biden I don't think is completely there
Biden is certainly not trustworthy. I wouldn't trust Biden or Trump with a ham sandwich
Biden is rich and supported by the New Aristocracy, no Republocrat has really given a **** about the middle class since Carter
Biden is of the Republocrat Oligarchy and these folk have been growing Presidential power for decades. Not only would Biden do nothing to curtail that, he'd use everything Trump has used thus far
Biden may inspire more people to nap, so he likely has the edge here.

- Even if Biden is being bought, it's better to have someone willing to be bought by green corps rather than coal industry. Paris accord, rolling back all environmental standards and oversight, there is so much damage that Biden could undo, it's incredible
- Education is just one example of the many govt agencies - look at who Trump installed to head EPA, Education, Energy Dept, FDA, HUD, etc - the only common characteristic between them (other than butt kissing Trump) is they HATE their own agencies and had wanted to destroy their mission prior to appointments. I mean this literally.
- "coherence for more than 3 minutes" is not needed in govt response here - what is needed is letting experts guide us, not pretending that you are one
- "Infinity War"? Sorry, not familiar with that one
- "Biden likely would listen to scientists when it suits his agenda." - Say that's true - still, his agenda is much more aligned with US than the self-serving ego-maniac
- "not completely there"? True. Still way more stable than Trump though.
- "Biden is certainly not trustworthy" - you mean as in "no politician ever is" kind of thing? I mean, sure, but heck, Trump sets a whole new standard for this.
- middle class: whether he cares or not, his policies tend to be much more PRO middle class - even if it's only to win elections
- Presidential power grab - seriously? Have you seen anything like Trump before in this respect? Inviting foreign interference, complete disregard for constitution, obstruction of justice taken to whole new level, etc...
- Good, at least we agree Biden won't be inciting violence :)
 
I put neither if Amash doesn't run but who knows. Another four years of Trump seems exhausting to me but Biden is just gone mentally and so I have serious doubts he'd finish a full first term if elected. It did get me excited to see a potential candidate in Amash that I can vote for who doesn't give me such pause as it does with Trump and Biden but that's assuming Amash is on the ballot. If Amash is on the ballot then i'll probably vote for him since I like some of the libertarian points of view but if he isn't then I really don't know how i'd vote at this point.
 
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