If you truly believed a Presidential Election was stolen, would Revolution/Insurrection be Justified?

[ecofarm]

I'm reading the OP in a different way than perhaps other people are. I voted yes, which is not at all to say that what the insurrectionists did is forgivable since their standard of evidence is "Whatever trump told me" or "whatever the last thing that popped into my head was."

The way I read it is in how trump's incitement to violence was so meaningful, since the lie he, republican leaders and right wing media told their audience was so fantastically incendiary.

Then it's a hero fantasy. Of course. Wherever injustice occurs and evil lurks, wherever there's oppression or tyranny or the diabolical deeds of men, I will rise up as the champion of all and slay that terrible beast in such a way as to have great animated stories told about me.

Yes. I am the hero. Great thread.



Seriously, what's the point?

 

[calamity]

The events of January 6, 2021 are what have spurred me to ask this question, what would be justified if a political party managed to do the seemingly-impossible? If you believed* that a political party of either persuasion connived to undermine our state and national electoral processes to the point where they were able to steal a Presidential election for their candidate, with the apparent collusion of the Courts, would a revolution against the illegitimately-elected (or indeed, unelected) government be justified? Especially if you believed that this political party might have the ability to cheat again in the future, and never be able to legitimately lose an election at the local, state and federal level. But this of course would be done with the understanding that such a revolution might lead to the irreversible breakdown of the country and a civil war that could cost the lives of untold thousands of fellow citizens. Would you nevertheless be driven to revolt?

WHAT I AM NOT ASKING: I am not asking to relitigate the 2020 Presidential Election. This is purely a philosophical discussion of what you think would be justified if you believed a Presidential election was stolen.

*When I say "belief," I mean that you have proof necessary to cause you to believe that the election was stolen.

That's a tough question but there is only one answer. No.

Let's face it, revolution is not going to lead to anywhere good other than a fast and early death for the revolutionary. Even if an election is stolen, taking up arms against a modern government with drones and shit is a fools errand. Protest, sue, leave, quit working and begin stealing, undermining, sell drugs...whatever. It makes more sense than storming a hill guarded by tanks and fighter jets. Let's be real.

 

[Antiwar]

To revolt because of a stolen election assumes something false: That we have representation worth revolting over.

Our representation sucks.

 

[Cardinal]

Then it's a hero fantasy. Of course. Wherever injustice occurs and evil lurks, wherever there's oppression or tyranny or the diabolical deeds of men, I will rise up as the champion of all and slay that terrible beast in such a way as to have great animated stories told about me.

Yes. I am the hero. Great thread.

Seriously, what's the point?

Well, I told you how I read the OP's question. I'm not suggesting that if I was convinced that the election was stolen that I'd rise up like Optimus Prime and lead my people to freedom. I'd do my own thing, like not rewinding my blu-rays before returning them to the shelf. But regardless, insurrection would be justified.

 

[ecofarm]

Well, I told you how I read the OP's question. I'm not suggesting that if I was convinced that the election was stolen that I'd rise up like Optimus Prime and lead my people to freedom. I'd do my own thing, like not rewinding my blu-rays before returning them to the shelf. But regardless, insurrection would be justified.

I would so Wolverine. I'd be the old wise guy that's seen too much. I'd be cynical. I'd be an anti hero, brutally oppressing all below me in an iron-fisted military hierarchy. I would rule over all I survey!

Wait, no. I got carried away. I just wanna help the forest resistance team.

 

[calamity]

Then it's a hero fantasy. Of course. Wherever injustice occurs and evil lurks, wherever there's oppression or tyranny or the diabolical deeds of men, I will rise up as the champion of all and slay that terrible beast in such a way as to have great animated stories told about me.

Yes. I am the hero. Great thread.



Seriously, what's the point?

I'd rather be a Khashoggi than the nut with a gun who shot a president.

 

[Cardinal]

I would so Wolverine. I'd be the old wise guy that's seen too much. I'd be cynical. I'd be an anti hero, brutally oppressing all below me in an iron-fisted military hierarchy. I would rule over all I survey!

Wait, no. I got carried away. I just wanna help the forest resistance team.

Does this forest resistance team have wi-fi?

 

[ecofarm]

I'd rather be a Khashoggi than the nut with a gun who shot a president.

I don't know what that means but I'll take pretty much any or no 15 minutes instead of that.

 

[ecofarm]

Does this forest resistance team have wi-fi?

Of course internet porn still exists. Why is that everyone's first question?

 

[Cardinal]

Of course internet porn still exists. Why is that everyone's first question?

Then I'm in.

 

[ecofarm]

Let this be a lesson to all would-be forest resistance cult leaders. People want porn. They don't give a shit if you have guns or bullets or beans. They will charge a machine gun nest with a large rock on an empty belly if you give them porn.

 

[Crakhobarbie]

The events of January 6, 2021 are what have spurred me to ask this question, what would be justified if a political party managed to do the seemingly-impossible? If you believed* that a political party of either persuasion connived to undermine our state and national electoral processes to the point where they were able to steal a Presidential election for their candidate, with the apparent collusion of the Courts, would a revolution against the illegitimately-elected (or indeed, unelected) government be justified? Especially if you believed that this political party might have the ability to cheat again in the future, and never be able to legitimately lose an election at the local, state and federal level. But this of course would be done with the understanding that such a revolution might lead to the irreversible breakdown of the country and a civil war that could cost the lives of untold thousands of fellow citizens. Would you nevertheless be driven to revolt?

WHAT I AM NOT ASKING: I am not asking to relitigate the 2020 Presidential Election. This is purely a philosophical discussion of what you think would be justified if you believed a Presidential election was stolen.

*When I say "belief," I mean that you have proof necessary to cause you to believe that the election was stolen.

The problem is that each opposing side always believes they are on the right side of the argument. It's how things deteriorate to the point of war. Each side believes they have the moral high ground, each side believes they are justified.

 

[calamity]

I don't know what that means ....

Kind of a "I'd rather be remembered as MLK than the douche bag who shot him" statement.

 

[Crakhobarbie]

If you believe you have "proof" of massive vote fraud, file a lawsuit and allow a court to adjudicate your complaint.

Unfortunately, there's always going to be those who refuse to believe the courts, their pastor.... Their own wives. People are stubborn.

 

[j brown's body]

I can't recommend revolution. For one thing, all it means is the other side wins. There really isn't that much difference between the two sides, at least, in a liberal democracy, there shouldn't be. Its a difference in governing, but we should want the same things.

 

[ecofarm]

Kind of a "I'd rather be remembered as MLK than the douche bag who shot him" statement.

Ah, the reporter, US resident and working for a US news agency when he was assassinated by Jared's right hand man. I remember.

 

[Crakhobarbie]

The events of January 6, 2021 are what have spurred me to ask this question, what would be justified if a political party managed to do the seemingly-impossible? If you believed* that a political party of either persuasion connived to undermine our state and national electoral processes to the point where they were able to steal a Presidential election for their candidate, with the apparent collusion of the Courts, would a revolution against the illegitimately-elected (or indeed, unelected) government be justified? Especially if you believed that this political party might have the ability to cheat again in the future, and never be able to legitimately lose an election at the local, state and federal level. But this of course would be done with the understanding that such a revolution might lead to the irreversible breakdown of the country and a civil war that could cost the lives of untold thousands of fellow citizens. Would you nevertheless be driven to revolt?

WHAT I AM NOT ASKING: I am not asking to relitigate the 2020 Presidential Election. This is purely a philosophical discussion of what you think would be justified if you believed a Presidential election was stolen.

*When I say "belief," I mean that you have proof necessary to cause you to believe that the election was stolen.

We're Colonial American forces justified in revolting against the King? I'm fairly sure we would all say yes.

 

[ecofarm]

Just to give you an idea of what I'd look like fighting tyranny.

 

[phoenix2020]

Let's face it, revolution is not going to lead to anywhere good other than a fast and early death for the revolutionary. Even if an election is stolen, taking up arms against a modern government with drones and shit is a fools errand. Protest, sue, leave, quit working and begin stealing, undermining, sell drugs...whatever. It makes more sense than storming a hill guarded by tanks and fighter jets. Let's be real.

Well... if the hill is guarded by the Capital Police, then all you need are a thousand noisy white protesters randomly bumping into and off of each other as they flow in the general direction of said hill while taking selfies.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

If the election was fraudulent, sure, you can stage an insurrection.

What kind of idiot thinks dozens of judges, from all over the country and all kinds of political persuasions, can be conned into saying the election was fair when it wasn't.

Those on this page (like maybe Eriech) sure talk big, but then their idea of a revolution is to storm the Capital, take selfies, steal laptops, wear horns, and get themselves arrested. If I have to worry about a revolution but THAT LOT, I might grab more popcorn and beer and enjoy a good laugh.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

It was stolen. There is no doubt.

Insurection/revolution justified if and when it is the only recourse. It is incumbent on those conducting elections to ensure another theft is not POSSIBLE or revolution will be inevitable (a revolution predicted by our founders)

you said IT WAS stolen, so revolution is justified, so I am waiting for you to show your manhood, don some horns, storm a government building, steal a laptop, and pose for selfies so the FBI can find you, OR are you saying you want OTHERS the to do revolting for you?

 

[ecofarm]

And Gandalf. I call him too. I'd totally be like Gandalf except the demon thing wouldn't drag me down for a while.

 

[Vadinho]

The events of January 6, 2021 are what have spurred me to ask this question, what would be justified if a political party managed to do the seemingly-impossible? If you believed* that a political party of either persuasion connived to undermine our state and national electoral processes to the point where they were able to steal a Presidential election for their candidate, with the apparent collusion of the Courts, would a revolution against the illegitimately-elected (or indeed, unelected) government be justified? Especially if you believed that this political party might have the ability to cheat again in the future, and never be able to legitimately lose an election at the local, state and federal level. But this of course would be done with the understanding that such a revolution might lead to the irreversible breakdown of the country and a civil war that could cost the lives of untold thousands of fellow citizens. Would you nevertheless be driven to revolt?

WHAT I AM NOT ASKING: I am not asking to relitigate the 2020 Presidential Election. This is purely a philosophical discussion of what you think would be justified if you believed a Presidential election was stolen.

*When I say "belief," I mean that you have proof necessary to cause you to believe that the election was stolen.

Look, it you wanna revolution you know...

You say you want a revolution
Well you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know you can count me out
Don't you know it's gonna be alright
Alright Alright

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

Chuckle.

Yeah, I am sure he will be at the front of the line (NOT!)

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

Is it March 3rd or 5th when Trump and the Quanan army are going to take back his rightful presidency?

4th, and I bet you any money Eriech will be at the front of the line leading the troops