• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

If we'd known the truth about Islam would we & should we have invaded Iraq?

  • Would we have invaded? Other

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • SHOULD we have invaded? Other

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    24
We're you carrying a bible, or wearing a star of David?

Then I could have had problems, just like I would have if I were carrying an Iranian flag and a Qur'an down the street in my home town of Indianola, MS.

You have to remember, guy, that most tourists carry their own problems with them. Yes, there are some that get in trouble through no fault of their own, but the vast majority of tourists who do have problems are the ones who (inadvertently or deliberately) disrespect local cultures and mores.

What I'm referring to, however, isn't concerning tourists, but concerning the general level of crime in Dubai vs. that of Seattle...which is normally seen as relatively safe compared to many US cities.
 

One trick pony applies.
 

Taz, you're not going back far enough. Oil, America's crack addiction, goes back to the 1950s when we overthrew the democratically elected government of Iran and installed a US friendly dictator. This set in motion a course of events that led to insane crazies kicking out the dictators who want to destroy America (the great Satan) and wipe Israel off the map.

But if you want to focus on more recent events, IMHO if we've invested 1/10 of the cost to go to war with Iraq instead into the development of car they don't require petroleum, half the vehicles on the roads today would be cars, trucks, vans and SUVs than run on electricity with long ranges. And for those who still prefer gasoline cars, because supply would be so plentiful because of the lack of demand, gas would be under a dollar a gallon. Plus no ISIS.
 

True, but in Seattle one doesn't worry about having a limb removed for stealing an old ladies purse. I would also say that comparing carrying a "koran" in America to walking around with a christian bible in Dubi is an apples/oranges comparison...
 
we did not invade because of islam/nukes/or weapons of mass destruction...it was about Cheney and the oil...Halliburton....
 
yes bush created isil by knocking out saddam but Obama has to try to clean it up...Obama is not going to let American soldiers die for another country...Iraq...we almost have to wait until isis does an actual killing on American soil..then we can hurt them even though we have killed almost 10000 of them with air power ...I know that means nothing to a lot of people on this site. the wrong administration did it...lol....but if we had soldiers on the ground and killed 10000 wonder if it would have a different affect on American critics of the president
 
oil not nukes....boss
 
did anyone out here see the movie 'W' about George bush???? do you remember Colin Powell asking Cheney and bush what is the exit strategy for Iraq.... and Cheney said there is none....that statement was made for the oil and nothing else...
 

With the advice from Sun Tzu and von Clausewitz in mind, "Know your enemy," how could Islam NOT have been considered a crucially important part of knowing the enemy?
 
did anyone out here see the movie 'W' about George bush???? do you remember Colin Powell asking Cheney and bush what is the exit strategy for Iraq.... and Cheney said there is none....that statement was made for the oil and nothing else...

Aside from your arguable conclusion, let's get to the meat of this matter.

Don't you feel that oil is worth dying for?
 
With the advice from Sun Tzu and von Clausewitz in mind, "Know your enemy," how could Islam NOT have been considered a crucially important part of knowing the enemy?

Sun Tzu also said that war should be the last resort.

And we made Islam our enemy by meddling in the Middle East to begin with.
 
we did not invade because of islam/nukes/or weapons of mass destruction...it was about Cheney and the oil...Halliburton....

Tell us about the millions of gallons of oil Halliburton stole from the Iraqis.

:lamo
 
Sun Tzu also said that war should be the last resort.

And we made Islam our enemy by meddling in the Middle East to begin with.

Show me the part of the Koran, Sira or Hadith which exempted America from conquest if we just stayed in our Continent and didn't meddle in the Middle East.
 

Then we would be safe from global Jihadi conquest, eh?

:lamo
 
Show me the part of the Koran, Sira or Hadith which exempted America from conquest if we just stayed in our Continent and didn't meddle in the Middle East.

Show me the part of Koran or the bible where it even mentions America.
 
Show me the part of Koran or the bible where it even mentions America.

Exactly.

It doesn't.

What it mentions is the world.

Which means that we have always been destined for conquest no matter what we did or did not do.


The Ultimate Goal of Islam: World Domination
 
I believe I have just identified one.

Well looks like an intelligent conversation with you is impossible. Have fun with your Glenn Beck worldview, Im sure he will be giving you more updates on the Queen's death.
 
Well looks like an intelligent conversation with you is impossible. Have fun with your Glenn Beck worldview, Im sure he will be giving you more updates on the Queen's death.

Pffft.

Don't go away mad. Just go away.

:lamo
 
With the advice from Sun Tzu and von Clausewitz in mind, "Know your enemy," how could Islam NOT have been considered a crucially important part of knowing the enemy?

Well, thankfully we weren't fighting the ancient Chinese. Knowing Islam and Iraqi culture was certainly important in fighting the war but the question was knowing the truth about Islam should we have started the war. Knowing about Islam should not have had an impact. In addition, Islam wasn't the enemy. The Hussein Regime was.

I once heard a story that during the invasion our psyops people broadcast messages from tanks and Humvees when the war started that insulted the manhood of Iraqi men as they rolled into a new town. Fighters would become agitated they would come out of hiding to fire on our troops and then get shot. A knowledge of the culture is important when fighting. Islam was not the determining factor in starting the war however.
 

I say that our lack of understanding of Islam may have led our civilian and military leaders to misunderestimate the dynamic there and I think it STILL does.

Why do you think the Iraqi Army flees before the ISIS forces?
 
I say that our lack of understanding of Islam may have led our civilian and military leaders to misunderestimate the dynamic there and I think it STILL does.

Why do you think the Iraqi Army flees before the ISIS forces?

You are right about the lack of understanding and will of this administration and the Bush administration about Islam and Iraqi culture when it comes to managing the war and our relationship in the region. That's a different topic than the one which started this thread.

The Bush administration, right or wrong, thought that a stable Iraq would establish self governance, a degree of free elections and a democratically elected government. They believed in nation building. Iraq had lived under a dictatorship for so long it's people didn't have the cultural values for free society. To hold the country together they needed a strong dictator. What they got was graft and corruption as the US money spigot flowed into the country. The new government poorly managed the Shia Sunni divide and the Iraqi people had no passion for the new government. That's why the Iraqi army gets beaten like a cheap screen door.

The Obama administration believes that if they stand far enough away from the conflict what ever will happen does happen. As usual rather than being proactive, they are reactive and only involves themselves in the larger struggle as they bend to public pressure. They have no strategy not because the Pentagon hasn't figured one out, but because they don't want one. As a result they are supporting genocide all over jihadist territories of coptic and orthodox Christians.

The Bush administration was stupid where the Obama administration is shameful.
 

Not relevant - hindsight is always 20/20.
 
Then we would be safe from global Jihadi conquest, eh?

:lamo

Well, let me think. Iran- We wouldn't have had the ayatollahs running Iran. No hostage crisis. No anti-Americanism there caused by overthrowing their government and installing a US friendly dictator. The alternate Iran probably wouldn't be a covert supporter of Hezbollah, smuggling missiles into Lebanon.

Al Qaeda- From my understanding, the central motivation of the 9/11 attacks was the first war with Iraq and its aftermath, permanently stationing US forces in Saudi Arabia to enforce the southern no-fly zone. According to wahabisism, part of the public school education offered in Saudi Arabia, I suspect strategically included by the Royal family to the keep the peasant population disinterested in materialism so they can enjoy their lives of luxury without compliant, the presence of a non-Islamic military force in Islamic land is an abomination and must be driven out. This was the education Osama bin laden and most of the hijackers were raised with and paid for by Americans at the gas pump.

Iraq- Due to oil's monopoly status over American transportation, we've had to live in marriages of convenience with regimes we normally would have avoided. Iraq was one such relationship. OPEC, the antitrust oil cartel, was formed as a way for dictators to make out like bandits on the backs of the American people. Saddam Hussein broke ranks with them and bailed America out of the energy crisis of the 1970s. It wasn't until his invasion of Kuwait and more importantly, his next planned move, to take over Saudi Arabia, that he fell out of favor with the US. War and then sanctions claimed the lives of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis including many of not mostly children who did not have access to medicine. This created what turned out to be a major motivation for anti-American sentiment in the region as a new form of media emerged, satellite news channels. These Arab news channels made America out to be an evil society who could care less if hundreds of thousands of their children died as long as we got their oil. This turned out to be an inadvertent recruitment tool for terrorism.

In the meantime, we have the technology to add a new form of transportation energy in the form of electric cars. However, there is an entire segment of the population who have been convinced by their favorite talk show host to oppose anything except the oil monopoly if you love America and hate communism.

So yes, if we weren't entangled in the Middle East over oil, I think the jihadists would be as concerned with US as they are Brazil.
 
Last edited:
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…