• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

If today you can't stand Trump as POTUS, was there a time when you were willing to give him a shot?

If today you can't stand Trump as POTUS, was there a time when you were willing to give him a shot?


  • Total voters
    46

Skeptic Bob

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 6, 2014
Messages
16,626
Reaction score
19,488
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
Yes, that also figured into my thoughts.

He is so covetous of good approval numbers, and at any point in his presidency he could have seen a large jump in approval numbers if he would just have controlled his tongue and twitter fingers for a whole week. But he can't do it. He digs his hole and then gets embarrassed and upset that he's in the whole and so he digs it deeper. I did not expect that from ... well, from anyone who had any sort of stature in the business world.

So, though he still stews about not getting approval from more people, he seems mostly to have given up on even making the simplest adjustments to try to earn it, and instead he has doubled down on the giant dog-whistle laden pity party he throws with his loyal supporters.


Even the media has given him a shot from time to time -- like after his first address to a joint session of Congress. Happened on a Tuesday. He was getting great press. But he couldn't even ride that triumphal train until Sunday. He had to step all over his good press on Saturday with a garbled version of a conspiracy theory about Obama. So of course that became the topic of the Sunday talk shows and Trump was outraged again about how negative the press coverage was. He could have had good coverage. He HAD good coverage. But he just couldn't shut up and enjoy it. Couldn't build on it. Couldn't let the growing economy help him broaden his appeal. He just doubles down on what it is that he thinks will fire up those loyal few who won't turn their backs on him even if his trade wars put them in the unemployment line.

I am still hopeful about one thing, and it is a major thing. While it is still early in his term he hasn’t gotten us into any new wars, and that is something his last several predecessors can’t say. And I do realize that could change but for now I consider that a major positive of his Presidency because that is something he could do, practically speaking, without Congress or the courts stopping him, in the immediate term at least.

If he finishes his term without getting us into a new war, I wouldn’t in good conscience be able to call him the worst President of my lifetime.
 

Xelor

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 20, 2018
Messages
10,257
Reaction score
4,161
Location
Washington, D.C.
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I can't remember the first time Trump entered my conscience... maybe the late 1970s. It didn't take long for me to consider him an attention whore. I never considered him worthy of POTUS.

One time I watched him get really annoyed when an interviewer asked him if he had ever changed a diaper. He said no.... that other people take care of things like that, and that no one (as in people who might watch the interview) had any interest in him answering that kind of question.

I certainly had an interest in his answer! I predict and hope Chump does not finish his term. Chump talks like a dimwit, lies compulsively and lacks integrity. I voted NO in the poll.
  1. Blue:
    The things that interest people astounds me, frankly, but there's no telling what does or may them. To wit, folks have a strange curiosity about the wealthy/famous people's mundanities. Lord only knows why, for they're no different than non-wealthy people's. Rich or poor, changing diapers the same and it sucks. "Nobody" hears their baby crying and thinks "Wouldn't it be great if I have to change his diaper."

    I wouldn't have thought people would be interested in the diaper changing experiences of persons whom they don't know. Parents will trade funny stories about it with their friends. Though I think that, I do find it odd that he didn't just answer the question and move on. All he had to was say "no" and nothing else. He didn't have to air his presumptuousness about what interests other people -- but that's typical Trump, not knowing what to say, how to say it, and not knowing what not to say.
  2. Trump in a pathological liar, but I don't think he was lying about having never changed a diaper. It's one of the few things he's said that comports with what we know about him. Though I can't say I know anyone who's never changed a diaper, I know plenty who've done so fewer than half-a-dozen times.

    Shortly before we had our first child, I was dreading the prospect of changing diapers so I asked Dad if he ever changed a diaper. He said he hadn't, but that I threw up on him once. I asked him how he managed that. He said (1) it was "women's work," (2) we had a nanny[SUP]1[/SUP], (3) you either don't take your incontinent child out of the house or you, if you must do, you take the nanny too, and (4) we kids were all potty-trained by 10-13 months so at any given point, you only ever have one that isn't potty-trained.

    People had that system figured out generations ago. It's part of the parental guidance that parents give their adult kids. (And unlike some of the guidance parents give their kids, it's readily heeded, as well it should be. LOL) I'm sure Trump knew of it. Trump's truly a dimwit, but I don't think he's that much of one.

Note:​


  1. [*=2]Dad said Momma was inflexible on that. She told him it was either going to be "we change diapers" or "we don't change diapers," but it wasn't going to be "I change diapers" and "you don't change diapers." He says that was the ultimatum and she didn't care which way he decided. He didn't want to deal with diapers, so nanny it was.

    I asked if he knew she was going to be so strident. He said they'd, when they were dating, talked about parenting and that he had a good idea of what her position was going to be when the time came to deal with it. So he was was prepared for what his choices were.

 

Perotista

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 31, 2013
Messages
26,334
Reaction score
19,002
Location
Georgia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Thanks for the long thoughtful post. Isn’t impeaching without conviction a recipe for disaster? Theater that ends badly, imo.

Possible, but not necessarily so. Bill Clinton's impeachment trial began in January of 1999, immediately after the 1998 midterm elections. During the trial we saw Bill's approval number improve from 58% up to 63%. That is enough for me to know most Americans didn't want Bill impeached. Did disaster follow for the Republicans? Not really.

The GOP won the White House in 2000, but lost 5 senate seats and 2 house seats. Although the American people didn't want Bill Clinton impeached and removed from office, there wasn't any major retribution against the Republicans. Perhaps because there was almost 2 years between impeachment and the 2000 elections. I'm more inclined to think because Bill wasn't removed, most forgot about impeachment. It wasn't a campaign issue.

If the Democrats retake the House this November, there's no doubt that an impeachment trial in the senate will be a lot closer to the 2020 elections than was Bill's. That could make a difference, or not. If impeachment is seen as a political vendetta, then yes, repercussions against the Democrats could happen. There needs to be substance to the charges. Not just political hate or revenge for losing an election. There actually was substance to Bill Clinton's impeachment. Of course the amount of substance will depend on which side of the aisle on sits.

A lot would depend on the mood of the people. How many actually want Trump removed along with what the charges are. How most Americans view impeachment and the trial. Bill Clinton isn't a good example for this as everyone knew the senate wasn't going to convict no matter what. It was just going through the motions.

So my final answer is, hard to tell. So much would depend on hard evidence available, how most Americans view that evidence. Did Trump actually do something so bad it merits removal from office or is it just political. I'll stick with hard to tell.
 

RetiredUSN

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
27,515
Reaction score
14,006
Location
Norfolk Virginia area.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Sorry but not voting does not give you a "clean conscience". You have abdicated on your most important duty as an American. All of us were given plenty of warnings from both sides about who Trump was and how dangerous he would be as President. Ignoring them was not the answer.

Voting for either is nothing more than welcoming what we have going on right now.
 

Chagos

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
29,046
Reaction score
7,577
Location
in expatria
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Private
I don't know that I even believe Hawkeye. He likes to say provocative unspecific things for the purpose of inciting aimless argy-barby.
Now ain't that the truth. :applaud
 

Chagos

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
29,046
Reaction score
7,577
Location
in expatria
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Private
No !!!

Never !!!!

From times long before he even announced his intention to run.

Whatever political camp he then decided to run for (with) having nothing to do with anything, he could have run for Pastafarians anonymous for all I care or cared.

I'll say though that (now that he's Prez.) he's met my expectations to the fullest.

Just as he did long before that.
 

Logician Man

Smooth Operator
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 23, 2018
Messages
26,205
Reaction score
9,606
Location
On the Threshold of a Dream
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
NO..Trump proved a very long time ago he is a racist,a misogynist,and horrible example for our youth.On the job training can be a good thing.But Trump has proved before and after his election what type of person he is,and always will be.A person who is totally unqualified to be POTUS.
 

roguenuke

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
51,765
Reaction score
18,970
Location
Rolesville, NC
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
I think around the time he won the primaries, I thought to myself, "well now, maybe, we will see that he was simply pandering to the far right, and will become more moderate". Unfortunately I was obviously wrong. He either really believes the crap he puts out or he believes it is his best bet when it comes to getting the most praise. I don't believe he has the country's best interest in mind at all.
 

Chagos

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
29,046
Reaction score
7,577
Location
in expatria
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Private
Voting for either is nothing more than welcoming what we have going on right now.

I'd greet with much enthusiasm if the option of "all of you are utterly unworthy" were offered in the voting process. And, more importantly, were counted and subsequently published.

The democratic process cannot mean that one has abdicated one's duties by refusing to cast one's ballot for the lesser of two evils.

At the end of the day it would imply that one still has to vote for an evil.
 

haymarket

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Messages
120,954
Reaction score
28,528
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Let me ask you about this... we were talking about what he might to in another thread. Some were saying, that Trump could go to Russia or the Russian Embassy, and act like Snowden and try to get some kind refugee. This is usually sound totally insane, but it's Trump, and he is really good at shocking decision making.

I had this horrible thought enter my mind. I thought, what if, he is sitting there and sees no way out. He knows his legacy will be tarnished and he will be exposed. His enemies (media personalities) will be on TV reporting it all. He can't handle that, but he would still really want to control the message in some way... even control his legacy... so how likely would it be, he kills himself. This thought really came into my mind.

I love true crime. I read about all kinds of weird stuff, and some people do kill themselves as a means of control. Some of them also, like Jim Jones, they are victims in their deaths. They are always the victim and the martyr.

I am not hoping that such a thing happens, but the thought entered my mind.

And if that were to happen, I think his loyal supporters would see him a victim, witch hunt out of control, etc. etc.

In any case, I hope who he really is gets exposed, and I hope we get answers about his campaign activity.

You bring up a very interesting possibility of Trump and suicide. For my two cents, I do not think he could ever take such an action as it would demonstrate that - for a brief moment - he can leave his delusional alternate reality that he has lived in for several decades now and actually face reality and how badly he has performed in reality. Trump is so far gone that he could never arrive at that moment causing him to even contemplate such a self destructive action.

Instead, I would see Trump coming up with an elaborate hoax centered around a phony or greatly exaggerated health problem that forces him out of office despite "all the great things I have done for this country".

There is little doubt that you and many of us will get our wish and Trump is going to be completely exposed for what he is and has been for a long time now. I would put the probability of that at over 90%.
 

wellwisher

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 20, 2017
Messages
1,215
Reaction score
455
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Trump is not the ideal person you watch on TV. However, he is someone who keeps his promise and gets things done even under very difficult circumstances. The left prefers pretentious people who make promise they don't intend to keep as, long as they look good doing it. The difference between the two is the Trump supporter prefers a man's man, while the left prefers a woman's man.

A man's man is not about looks or image. It is about being strong and able to function successfully even under hardship. A woman's man is about a handsome superficial appearance and a choreographed message that tells woman what they want to hear. Go to a bar and you can see woman's men. Go to war and you can see the man's man.

Trump supporters look at Trump as a man's man and don't mind if he is rough around the edges and unkept, as long as he gets the job done and meets the promises he made. The left is more about image and maintaining pretty little lies.

The left wing tactic has been to make Trump look like the worse the pickup artist, so he does not appeal to their base. He is not rehearsed enough but talks of the cuff which is not the way pickup artists works. Trump voters are not fooled by pickup artists. So this left wing countering strategy does not change their view. They still want a man's man, who is like a good father and husband, who does not have to be perfect, but who pushes the family forward even under adversity. He may not always be pretty, but he has their back and their best interests at heart.

As an example of this contrast, President Trump and Bill Clinton both have a history of chasing skirts. The main difference was after the affairs, the Clintons would try to destroy the women that Bill conned or raped; bimbo eruption squad. Trump, on the other hand, would give them a generous gift of money so they do not feel used or abused. That is one difference between a man's man and a woman's man. A man's man will try to make amends while the woman's man can be heartless and egotistic, due to being the product of a spoiling mother.
 

Greenbeard

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 10, 2013
Messages
14,756
Reaction score
13,132
Location
Cambridge, MA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Trump is not the ideal person you watch on TV. However, he is someone who keeps his promise and gets things done even under very difficult circumstances. The left prefers pretentious people who make promise they don't intend to keep as, long as they look good doing it.

Promise:


Reality:

Trump Administration Move Imperils Pre-Existing Condition Protections
If that argument prevails in the courts, it would render unconstitutional Obamacare provisions that ban insurance companies from denying coverage to people with pre-existing conditions — arguably the most popular component of the 2010 health care law.
 

Jetboogieman

Somewhere in Babylon
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Messages
32,047
Reaction score
35,910
Location
Somewhere in Babylon...
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
There was one moment, in which I was willing to see what he may do.

He is a loudmouth moron.

I mean even for a hardcore republican the idea when he was talking about ISIS that he "Knew more than the generals" in how to defeat them, should have been laughable (instead it was laudable... apparently).

But I had this image of him coming into office, being surrounded by Generals, intelligence officials, economic advisers who are all far smarter and far more capable than he could ever hope to be... And him being humbled and finally realizing the gravity of the position he had aquired.

But nah... He got even worse, especially given the fact he treats the president like his personal plaything.

If you support this man, you are a lost soul, he's not worthy of anyones support let alone yours.

I say this again but he's the type of man that would sooner **** your wife and have the audacity to wipe his dick with your towel on his way out than help you even move a couch... And you give someone like that your undying love and support.

Foolish.
 

upsideguy

Pragmatic Idealist
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
18,079
Reaction score
11,024
Location
Rocky Mtn. High
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Yes. Although during the 2016 campaign, I made numerous posts about Trump being an arrogant, ignorant, thin-skinned, impulsive, not very bright, narcissistic man-child, once he was elected, I tried to deal with it as maybe he won't be so bad. As he was running, I thought he is a bit of an opportunist, that coupled with his business background, might have him govern more from the middle, playing Dems against Reps, but in the end governing from a centrist position. That was my operating fantasy that got me through the post election blues. I even posted something to that effect here on DP in the weeks after the election.

My bubble burst, however, when he started making cabinet selections, many of whom seemed corrupt, vindictive and sorely unqualified in their own right. The selection of Scott Pruitt at the EPA (I am a stanch environmentalist) pierced my bubble of naivete followed by Trumps impulsive EO's, many of whom seemed vindictive and petty in their own right, often just to undo what Obama had done, killed any chance of the Don and I being in a good relationship.

In the end, I realized what I said about him during the campaign was incorrect because I was not dire enough in my description of how unfit the man actually was to be POTUS.
 

Logician Man

Smooth Operator
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 23, 2018
Messages
26,205
Reaction score
9,606
Location
On the Threshold of a Dream
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Yes. Although during the 2016 campaign, I made numerous posts about Trump being an arrogant, ignorant, thin-skinned, impulsive, not very bright, narcissistic man-child, once he was elected, I tried to deal with it as maybe he won't be so bad. As he was running, I thought he is a bit of an opportunist, that coupled with his business background, might have him govern more from the middle, playing Dems against Reps, but in the end governing from a centrist position. That was my operating fantasy that got me through the post election blues. I even posted something to that effect here on DP in the weeks after the election.

My bubble burst, however, when he started making cabinet selections, many of whom seemed corrupt, vindictive and sorely unqualified in their own right. The selection of Scott Pruitt at the EPA (I am a stanch environmentalist) pierced my bubble of naivete followed by Trumps impulsive EO's, many of whom seemed vindictive and petty in their own right, often just to undo what Obama had done, killed any chance of the Don and I being in a good relationship.

In the end, I realized what I said about him during the campaign was incorrect because I was not dire enough in my description of how unfit the man actually was to be POTUS.

Trump had shown long before he was elected he was an 'Island of One." This was verified many times after he was elected when it became very evident he had ZERO interest in actually surrounding himself with the 'best men and women." His definition of 'best' is those who will commit to put Trump above party and country with their 'loyalty pledges' which he tried his damndest to always be made one-on-one as not to have 3rd party witnesses. Removing Jeff Sessions from the Oval Office as he attempted to 'feel out' Comey comes to mind.Trump has always been a bad apple.Sued/settled/lost for discriminating against blacks in the early 70's..Ripping off people via his phony Trump University.There is no excuse for electing this POS.Playing the HRC card is just a reason,not an excuse.
 

apdst

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2009
Messages
133,631
Reaction score
30,928
Location
Bagdad, La.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Some of the folks who voted yes are lying.
 

Media_Truth

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
Messages
11,375
Reaction score
2,648
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Trump was not fit to be president before he was elected. And it's obvious that he cannot handle the job. He has only worked with the Congress and Senate on one bill - tax cuts for billionaires. A dismal failure at every other attempt. How about that Health Care that he promised on the campaign trail?
 

roguenuke

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
51,765
Reaction score
18,970
Location
Rolesville, NC
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
Trump is not the ideal person you watch on TV. However, he is someone who keeps his promise and gets things done even under very difficult circumstances. The left prefers pretentious people who make promise they don't intend to keep as, long as they look good doing it. The difference between the two is the Trump supporter prefers a man's man, while the left prefers a woman's man.

A man's man is not about looks or image. It is about being strong and able to function successfully even under hardship. A woman's man is about a handsome superficial appearance and a choreographed message that tells woman what they want to hear. Go to a bar and you can see woman's men. Go to war and you can see the man's man.

Trump supporters look at Trump as a man's man and don't mind if he is rough around the edges and unkept, as long as he gets the job done and meets the promises he made. The left is more about image and maintaining pretty little lies.

The left wing tactic has been to make Trump look like the worse the pickup artist, so he does not appeal to their base. He is not rehearsed enough but talks of the cuff which is not the way pickup artists works. Trump voters are not fooled by pickup artists. So this left wing countering strategy does not change their view. They still want a man's man, who is like a good father and husband, who does not have to be perfect, but who pushes the family forward even under adversity. He may not always be pretty, but he has their back and their best interests at heart.

As an example of this contrast, President Trump and Bill Clinton both have a history of chasing skirts. The main difference was after the affairs, the Clintons would try to destroy the women that Bill conned or raped; bimbo eruption squad. Trump, on the other hand, would give them a generous gift of money so they do not feel used or abused. That is one difference between a man's man and a woman's man. A man's man will try to make amends while the woman's man can be heartless and egotistic, due to being the product of a spoiling mother.

Even your last paragraph is utter bull****. Trump is far worse than Clinton when it comes to covering up for his "chasing skirts" indiscretions. In fact, he threatened to sue any and all women who "badmouthed" him after the election. Pretty sure Clinton didn't do that.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/11/politics/donald-trump-women-allegations/index.html

One of his claimed "witnesses" wasn't even present at the event that he allegedly went into the dressing room but still said "As far as the rumors surrounding him coming backstage and things like that, dressing rooms -- absolutely not,". But she wasn't there. He even admitted to going back into the dressing room on another show before he decided to run.

So please tell us all again how honorably he handles the accusations about sexual harassment and assault and just plain cheating.
 

Xelor

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 20, 2018
Messages
10,257
Reaction score
4,161
Location
Washington, D.C.
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Even your last paragraph is utter bull****. Trump is far worse than Clinton when it comes to covering up for his "chasing skirts" indiscretions. In fact, he threatened to sue any and all women who "badmouthed" him after the election. Pretty sure Clinton didn't do that.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/11/politics/donald-trump-women-allegations/index.html

One of his claimed "witnesses" wasn't even present at the event that he allegedly went into the dressing room but still said "As far as the rumors surrounding him coming backstage and things like that, dressing rooms -- absolutely not,". But she wasn't there. He even admitted to going back into the dressing room on another show before he decided to run.

So please tell us all again how honorably he handles the accusations about sexual harassment and assault and just plain cheating.

Trump and Clinton both are/were philanderers. That's where the substantive similarity between them and the criminal investigations into their activities begin and end. Hell, I challenge anyone to find forty instances of Clinton having called the Starr (or Fiske) investigation a "witch hunt." (As of August 3rd, Trump'd called the Mueller investigation a "witch hunt" at least 84 times in public.)
 

Deuce

Outer space potato man
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
80,817
Reaction score
36,205
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Shot of tequila maybe. That dude needs to chill the **** out
 

disneydude

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
25,528
Reaction score
8,470
Location
Los Angeles
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
I wasn't happy with the election....BUT.....I was willing to give Trump a chance. That was until he came out on day 1 and declared everyone who didn't vote for him "his enemies"...and doubled down on stupid. That was the end of the road for me...and he's proven himself to be nothing but a buffoon since.
 

StillBallin75

Basketball Nerd
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 16, 2011
Messages
22,152
Reaction score
13,902
Location
Fort Drum, New York
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Socialist
He pretty much revealed himself to be a gigantic ****head when the whole birtherism thing came about. Dunno why any rational person would look at that and be like, "Oh hey, I'm comfortable with that occupying the Oval Office." And it's only gone downhill from there.

So no, I was never willing to give him a chance, because he never demonstrated the capacity to earn that chance, and I didn't think it was possible for him to sink below my initial low expectations of him, but he has done that in every way possible and failed every test of character and competence with flying colors.
 

MrWonka

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 21, 2016
Messages
10,535
Reaction score
5,560
Location
Charleston, SC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
I don't hold against him that he didn't attenuate or alter his character. I hold against him his character, for it's incorrigible. To wit, that he has no shame is what it is. That he has no shame while having plenty to be ashamed of is the problem, and that is among the things I hold against him.

The Character of future Biff in Back to the Future II was based on Donald Trump.
 
Top Bottom