If today you can't stand Trump as POTUS, was there a time when you were willing to give him a shot?

[Greenbeard]

The first African-American President of the United States of America.

And the consensus pick of the plurality of Americans as the best president of their lifetimes.

 

[jimbo]

The first African-American President of the United States of America.

Exactly. The sole reason Obama was elected.

 

[Rexedgar]

I didn't vote for Trump (or Hillary) and considered his election campaign-promises as populist hooey and dishonest, but decided to see how things went.

It didn't take long. The inauguration crowd size outright lie by Sean Spicer (with the Conway 'alternative-facts' garbage) turned me off, the House Republicans (Jan. 2, 2017) voted to effectively kill the Office of Congressional Ethics watchdog, and it became obvious [to me] that Trump was going to stonewall on releasing his tax returns, and his Trump Organization management arrangement (no blind trust at all) was a sham.

The first few weeks were more than enough for me. Done.

I agree with this post and to sort of quantify my vote in the poll, once he was elected, there was no alternative but to see how the “pivot” was going to work. We all know now that there was no “pivot” and Trump has said on more than one occasion that he could be “Presidential.” Like the way pigs could talk......if they wanted to.

 

[ecofarm]

I agree with this post and to sort of quantify my vote in the poll, once he was elected, there was no alternative but to see how the “pivot” was going to work. We all know now that there was no “pivot” and Trump has said on more than one occasion that he could be “Presidential.”

His first State of the Union (which wasn't really a State of the Union because he had not been in office long enough so it was just a Speech Before a Joint Session of Congress, whatever).

He opened applauding Black History Month and noting the need for it. He supported an aspect of feminism. Overall, that speech was good and might have approached great were it not for "great great wall" and a handful of other fumbles.

Then there was the meeting with the Canadian PM where, with Ivanka, feminism was front and center. An international organization was established. The main talk was tax cuts or infrastructure project, which first. I was happy with either.

That was a good month.

 

[Perotista]

In 2014, I first heard -- in what are my anecdotally "reliable" circles, aka from the folks in my "grapevine" -- that Trump would likely run for POTUS. Prior to that time, I'd heard some scuttlebutt about his reprobate character (reprobate by the standards of folks in my circles) and his disingenuousness in business dealings, but I figured a variety of things:

• Well, he's hooligan, but surely the presidency and seeking it will inspire him to exercise temperamental discipline and refinement befitting someone who'd be POTUS that he was taught as a young person.
• Well, he's a businessman, so he'll exercise the due rigor, soundness and cogency of thought, analysis and solutioneering concomitant with a Fortune 500 CEO.
• Well, he runs a large global business, surely he'll effect in government the operational and communicative coherence, collaborative culture and comportmental constancy characteristic of the best run of such firms.

I thought a few other things too, but those were the main ones. Taken together, in 2014 and 2015 I was optimistic about the notion of a Trump presidency. Then he came down that escalator opened his mouth about Mexicans and I began to have my doubts. Sometime between then and the GOP convention, I realized that all I'd head about the kind of man Trump is was true and that he wasn't going to change, nor even mollify/remake his public persona.[SUP]1[/SUP] It was then that Trump scuttled the opportunity to earn my approbation of his candidacy/presidency. In short, I did give him a chance. He blew it.


Note:

1. Mind, I don't hold against him that he didn't attenuate or alter his character. I hold against him his character, for it's incorrigible. To wit, that he has no shame is what it is. That he has no shame while having plenty to be ashamed of is the problem, and that is among the things I hold against him.

Trump never really interested me. When he dissed our POW's for not being good soldiers because they got caught, that ensured I would never support him as a candidate for the presidency. Like any other president during my lifetime, he has done some things I like, some I didn't. What I can't stand is the man throwing this childish temper tantrums and name calling like a five year old whose parents didn't teach him any manners. It's Trump's reality TV game show host persona that he brought to the White House.

He doesn't act like an adult at all, he acts more like a schoolyard bully than someone who is suppose to be leader of the free world. Like a spoiled brat who threatens to take his ball home if he doesn't get his way. That being said, I'll support him on issues I think good for the country, oppose him on issues I think bad for the nation. As for the man himself, him I can't support. His constant childish actions, his rude behavior, his uncouth and obnoxious personality, that is just too much.

This child in a man's body needs for someone to take him over their knee and give him a good spanking along with teaching him some manners and that the office of the presidency, deserves some respect from the one who now abides there.

 

[Logician Man]

Exactly. The sole reason Obama was elected.

the play of the racist card.^^^^^

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

Let me ask you about this... we were talking about what he might to in another thread. Some were saying, that Trump could go to Russia or the Russian Embassy, and act like Snowden and try to get some kind refugee. This is usually sound totally insane, but it's Trump, and he is really good at shocking decision making.

I had this horrible thought enter my mind. I thought, what if, he is sitting there and sees no way out. He knows his legacy will be tarnished and he will be exposed. His enemies (media personalities) will be on TV reporting it all. He can't handle that, but he would still really want to control the message in some way... even control his legacy... so how likely would it be, he kills himself. This thought really came into my mind.

I love true crime. I read about all kinds of weird stuff, and some people do kill themselves as a means of control. Some of them also, like Jim Jones, they are victims in their deaths. They are always the victim and the martyr.

I am not hoping that such a thing happens, but the thought entered my mind.

And if that were to happen, I think his loyal supporters would see him a victim, witch hunt out of control, etc. etc.

In any case, I hope who he really is gets exposed, and I hope we get answers about his campaign activity.

What he is has already been exposed. Problem is the GOP controls Congress and his base really don't care if he shoots someone on 5th Avenue. Of course all of that will change, then the fun starts.

What will he do exactly? Idk. But I do know he will look out for himself 1st. He's been this way all his life.

His friends, his family, his business associates mean nothing to him. He's proven that a 100 times. With him it's all about Donald Trump.

 

[Kobie]

Trump never really interested me. When he dissed our POW's for not being good soldiers because they got caught, that ensured I would never support him as a candidate for the presidency. Like any other president during my lifetime, he has done some things I like, some I didn't. What I can't stand is the man throwing this childish temper tantrums and name calling like a five year old whose parents didn't teach him any manners. It's Trump's reality TV game show host persona that he brought to the White House.

He doesn't act like an adult at all, he acts more like a schoolyard bully than someone who is suppose to be leader of the free world. Like a spoiled brat who threatens to take his ball home if he doesn't get his way. That being said, I'll support him on issues I think good for the country, oppose him on issues I think bad for the nation. As for the man himself, him I can't support. His constant childish actions, his rude behavior, his uncouth and obnoxious personality, that is just too much.

This child in a man's body needs for someone to take him over their knee and give him a good spanking along with teaching him some manners and that the office of the presidency, deserves some respect from the one who now abides there.

He’d probably enjoy that.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Exactly. The sole reason Obama was elected.

If one has a racist point of view about it...

 

[jimbo]

the play of the racist card.^^^^^

I didn't bring it up. You brought it up. I just agreed with you.

 

[Logician Man]

I didn't bring it up. You brought it up. I just agreed with you.

///I agreed with you////.No where in my post did I say his heritage had anything to do with him being elected. I posted a statement of fact. you posted
a racist opinion.You're struggling...try again if you dare.

 

[Greenbeard]

He’d probably enjoy that.

As long as the spanking is administered with a magazine featuring his face on the cover.

 

[JMR]

Exactly. The sole reason Obama was elected.

Along with the fact that Obama brought out the vote, he was also a much better candidate than McCain (who went down the drain with the Palin pick) and Romney, who inspired exactly no one. Obama won the black, Latino, youth, women, and college educated voters.

Obama will be regarded in history books as a very good president. Get over it.

 

[Rexedgar]

Trump never really interested me. When he dissed our POW's for not being good soldiers because they got caught, that ensured I would never support him as a candidate for the presidency. Like any other president during my lifetime, he has done some things I like, some I didn't. What I can't stand is the man throwing this childish temper tantrums and name calling like a five year old whose parents didn't teach him any manners. It's Trump's reality TV game show host persona that he brought to the White House.

He doesn't act like an adult at all, he acts more like a schoolyard bully than someone who is suppose to be leader of the free world. Like a spoiled brat who threatens to take his ball home if he doesn't get his way. That being said, I'll support him on issues I think good for the country, oppose him on issues I think bad for the nation. As for the man himself, him I can't support. His constant childish actions, his rude behavior, his uncouth and obnoxious personality, that is just too much.

This child in a man's body needs for someone to take him over their knee and give him a good spanking along with teaching him some manners and that the office of the presidency, deserves some respect from the one who now abides there.

It’s my opinion that the bolded is true. This is the first time there have been any consequences for Donald Trump’s actions. He is clueless how to deal with consequences.



Edit: I’m gonna guess Wharton has no basic physics courses; action/reaction

 

[Logician Man]

It’s my opinion that the bolded is true. This is the first time there have been any consequences for Donald Trump’s actions. He is clueless how to deal with consequences.

Many signals out there he may very well get a crash course in dealing with consequences....very serious consequences

 

[SDET]

US society has degraded to voters who want free stuff and voters who want their ears tickled. Ear tickling is cheaper for the taxpayers. If a coalition of people who value real conservative principles and people who want their ears tickled is the best we can do for a majority, Trump may be the best we can hope for. That's a sad thought.

Does anyone here think a Ted Cruz, Mike Lee or Ben Sasse could win the White House? I wonder how many here would consider them an improvement over Trump.

 

[Casper]

Trump is AWESOME!

I am going to miss him when he is gone.

You really do amaze me, but hey I learned long ago to grasp where you are coming from, too bad most of not.

 

[beancounter]

At some point, I remember hoping that he would act more like a northeast conservative vs. a crazy ass southern conservative.

I remember when Sarah Palin visited my state, the Republicans gave her litttle more than polite applause. I respected them for knowing a bad apple when they saw one, but with Trump, it seems they've all jumped off the deep end.

 

[Perotista]

It’s my opinion that the bolded is true. This is the first time there have been any consequences for Donald Trump’s actions. He is clueless how to deal with consequences.



Edit: I’m gonna guess Wharton has no basic physics courses; action/reaction

Neither Trump nor his supporters realize that his actions, his weird and at times childish behavior behavior has turned a majority of Americans against him. At least disapprove of him. When poll after poll show this to be true, all we get from them is the old "Polls are wrong," meme.

We will find out how much the polls are wrong in November. Also perhaps, pound into Trump and his Trumpers the fact the guy just isn't liked.

 

[Rexedgar]

Neither Trump nor his supporters realize that his actions, his weird and at times childish behavior behavior has turned a majority of Americans against him. At least disapprove of him. When poll after poll show this to be true, all we get from them is the old "Polls are wrong," meme.

We will find out how much the polls are wrong in November. Also perhaps, pound into Trump and his Trumpers the fact the guy just isn't liked.

Aren’t you into prognostication? If there is not an overwhelming repudiation of the current Administration, come November, it will be just like the House voting for impeachment and the Senate voting to acquit; just like the stoker throwing coal to the boiler, full speed ahead! “How do you impeach someone who is doing a great job?”

 

[Nickyjo]

I think a lot of people did.

Back in 2009, I think a lot of people gave Obama a shot. In 2017, a lot of people gave Trump a shot.

It's what we do. Partly of course because we want our country to succeed, partly because it's how the human mind copes with things we can't change, and because, frankly, in spite of how polarized the country feels most of us really aren't very wonky politically. If Trump had shown some gravitas, most of the nation would have breathed a sigh of relief and gone back to their regularly scheduled entertainment. Most of the nation still is wanting to do that, but Trump keeps going out of his way to unsettle things.

Great post. But have to admit Trump lost me on style coming down the escalator. The Mexican rapist thing sealed the deal on substance, tho the “I alone can fix things” Mussolini imitation buried him. America is about “we,” not “I”. First word of the Constitution.

 

[EnigmaO01]

Never was willing to give him a shot as I could see right through him. And I did'n't and still don't think he's terribly bright.

I knew he would probably make our worst president ever and he hasn't disappointed. And I did then, and still think; he will be impeached.

 

[Perotista]

Aren’t you into prognostication? If there is not an overwhelming repudiation of the current Administration, come November, it will be just like the House voting for impeachment and the Senate voting to acquit; just like the stoker throwing coal to the boiler, full speed ahead! “How do you impeach someone who is doing a great job?”

LOL, yeah, my monthly senate and house forecasts. I think if the midterms were held today the Democrats would pickup between 35-50 seats in the house. Senate, the Democrats would pickup Arizona, Nevada and possibly, an even chance of Tennessee. 2 or 3 seats currently held by the Republicans. But lose Indiana and North Dakota, with Florida and Missouri even money. This is as of today. The election is still a bit over two months away, anything can happen between now and then.

Still, maintaining the status quo in the senate is a major victory for the Democrats. Remember they have 26 seats up for reelection vs. only 9 for the Republicans. With those numbers and considering some of the states where Democrats have incumbents running, North Dakota, Montana, West Virginia, Missouri, Indiana, Ohio which for the most part are deep red states which all went for Trump big time in 2016, The Democrats should be losing four or five seats. They shouldn't be in a position with 26 seats up for reelection this cycle of maintaining the status quo with an outside chance, very long odds of actually taking over the senate.

It's possible, Let the Dems win Arizona, Nevada and Tennessee which is neck and neck at the point in time. Then they can afford to lose one seat and still come out with a 51-49 advantage. Long odds for sure, but possible and I'm not predicting that.

With the house, if things go like they look they will today, the Democrats will be able to impeach Trump anytime they want. Getting a conviction in the senate, it take 2/3rds of the senate to vote guilty, that isn't about to happen. Shades of Bill Clinton's impeachment and trial abound here.

What the Democrats don't need is an impeachment trial that looks like a political vendetta for losing an election. That could very well backfire into a Trump reelection in 2020.

 

[Rexedgar]

LOL, yeah, my monthly senate and house forecasts. I think if the midterms were held today the Democrats would pickup between 35-50 seats in the house. Senate, the Democrats would pickup Arizona, Nevada and possibly, an even chance of Tennessee. 2 or 3 seats currently held by the Republicans. But lose Indiana and North Dakota, with Florida and Missouri even money. This is as of today. The election is still a bit over two months away, anything can happen between now and then.

Still, maintaining the status quo in the senate is a major victory for the Democrats. Remember they have 26 seats up for reelection vs. only 9 for the Republicans. With those numbers and considering some of the states where Democrats have incumbents running, North Dakota, Montana, West Virginia, Missouri, Indiana, Ohio which for the most part are deep red states which all went for Trump big time in 2016, The Democrats should be losing four or five seats. They shouldn't be in a position with 26 seats up for reelection this cycle of maintaining the status quo with an outside chance, very long odds of actually taking over the senate.

It's possible, Let the Dems win Arizona, Nevada and Tennessee which is neck and neck at the point in time. Then they can afford to lose one seat and still come out with a 51-49 advantage. Long odds for sure, but possible and I'm not predicting that.

With the house, if things go like they look they will today, the Democrats will be able to impeach Trump anytime they want. Getting a conviction in the senate, it take 2/3rds of the senate to vote guilty, that isn't about to happen. Shades of Bill Clinton's impeachment and trial abound here.

What the Democrats don't need is an impeachment trial that looks like a political vendetta for losing an election. That could very well backfire into a Trump reelection in 2020.

Thanks for the long thoughtful post. Isn’t impeaching without conviction a recipe for disaster? Theater that ends badly, imo.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

A friend and I decided to attempt to maintain political decorum and look on the bright side. I'm still holding. I've never bashed Trump, I defend him against blatantly unfair attacks and I highlight that which I agree with. My friend gave up months ago, he's what might be described here as having "TDS". My friend is a good man of considerable will, but he hasn't the experience to remain Stoic against disappointment.

I think that is a big difference between partisans and nonpartisans. Partisans actively root for the other side to fail because they view it as a personal victory for their side. While you certainly hold some strong ideological positions (so do I), I definitely wouldn’t classify you as a partisan.