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If there is sufficient proof should Trump be indicted?

Galactic Spin

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Guilty of having a rally? yes
Is there a statute against having a rally? no

So having the rally is not a crime.....and he himself, did not storm the capitol

And his speech is not a crime either....

So the government must prove that he ordered the attack.....and so far, that has not happened

SO based on FACTS, not opinions or feelings, or conjecture and theory, how is he guilty?
Trot out a few hundred insurrections that say, under oath, he told them and invited them to do it. Let them answer your question in front of a jury.

Point to Trump's dereliction and even inflammatory actions during the riot.

Trot out his closest people, under oath, and have them tell the jury what Trump was doing for 3 hours.

Point to his efforts to let armed people in.

Point to his efforts to go there, despite knowing what was happening.

And tie it all to a larger conspiracy with several tendrils.
 

Jacksprat

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Guilty of having a rally? yes
Is there a statute against having a rally? no

So having the rally is not a crime.....and he himself, did not storm the capitol

And his speech is not a crime either....

So the government must prove that he ordered the attack.....and so far, that has not happened

SO based on FACTS, not opinions or feelings, or conjecture and theory, how is he guilty?

As President of the United States I tell you to go home. It really was that simple to prevent the ensuing violence.
 

Gateman_Wen

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The OP is the one who started this thread and is the one I was talking to. Is that so hard for you to understand?

If it is, too bad. I don't care.

You are dismissed.
Then why did you quote me if you were talking to him?
 

switt

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There is several investigations into possible Trump wrong doing. To name a few, January 6th. , The attempt to change the outcome of the Georgia election by finding more votes, The documents removed from the White House and stored at Mar A Lago. There is also a possible one in New York concerning his manipulation of values of his properties. So far there have been no indictments, but if they find sufficient proof should Trump be indicted?
There was sufficient proof long ago. The only reason he hasn't been indicated is because he is who he is.
 

Nickyjo

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Every day people "get away" with robbing stores, sucker punching perfectly innocent people and brazenly looting stores.

They are always treated solicitously by woke prosecutors.

Why shouldn't a former President receive equal treatment?
You seem unaware that -as I understand it- the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world.
 

soap box

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There is several investigations into possible Trump wrong doing. To name a few, January 6th. , The attempt to change the outcome of the Georgia election by finding more votes, The documents removed from the White House and stored at Mar A Lago. There is also a possible one in New York concerning his manipulation of values of his properties. So far there have been no indictments, but if they find sufficient proof should Trump be indicted?

Ok I'll answer your question first.
Hell yeah!
If you want to open a can of worms another question is could/should he be convicted. And then the biggest of all is sentencing.

My odds-on pick is that the clearest case to understand is the Maralago files. But the J6 grand jury might reveal something that is equally clear to reasonable people . Either case might end in a conviction. The Watergate burglary happened in June of 72, but the public didn't grasp the issue until late in 73. It will take more time but I think DOJ has to clearly make a sound case both in court and in hearts and minds. I think it's important the facts get to the public.

I would not want to see him incarcerated or detained. I just think he should be barred from office, it fits the crimes and he's elderly.

I know you must have already considered these , what do you say?
 

Fishking

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There is several investigations into possible Trump wrong doing. To name a few, January 6th. , The attempt to change the outcome of the Georgia election by finding more votes, The documents removed from the White House and stored at Mar A Lago. There is also a possible one in New York concerning his manipulation of values of his properties. So far there have been no indictments, but if they find sufficient proof should Trump be indicted?
If proof of coordination with violent rioters, yes.
Georgia vote thing is misrepresented, so no.
No for the documents, there's no mechanism for it.
Yes if property situation is proven.
 

jcgriff2

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There is several investigations into possible Trump wrong doing. To name a few, January 6th. , The attempt to change the outcome of the Georgia election by finding more votes, The documents removed from the White House and stored at Mar A Lago. There is also a possible one in New York concerning his manipulation of values of his properties. So far there have been no indictments, but if they find sufficient proof should Trump be indicted?
ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Here we go again. Same questions over and over and over - and the results will be the same.

For the record, that last one you mentioned about "manipulation of values...." is a civil suit by the NY AG as she damn well knows she could never win a criminal case on that garbage.

Once upon a time, DOJ lied to and mislead a FISA judge who then signed a FISA warrant(s) allowing the democrats (Hillary Clinton, Obama, Biden, Garland, others) to spy on Trump/Trump 2016 campaign because democrats came up with the Russian Collusion hoax, which Special Counsel Mueller investigated for 22 months and cleared Trump.

All of the radical left's so-called "evidence" collected, invented, placed, or whatever is fruit of their poisonous tree and is therefore tainted as none of it can be trusted.

It is absolutely incredible how scared the radical left is of President Trump as I cannot think of any other person in history that an opposition party has tried so hard, gloves off, to eliminate for the sole purpose of totally discrediting and destroying Trump, his policies, and the Republican party so the democrats can become the sole political party of the United States and force total socialism along with their perversion upon us all. But now that the American people (who are nowhere near as stupid as the left thinks we all are) have seen what that opposition party has in store for us after nearly 2 years under the iron rule of Biden, voters will definitely begin cleaning house this November and again in 2024, be it Trump or DeSantis, who the left is already taking pot shots at.

There is nothing to indict President Trump or any of his children on as none have committed any crimes.

Come January 2023, WH oversight resumes and the Biden Family's crimes will then be investigated. Now that will be a show worthy of a Hollywood production.

Here you go again...putting the cart before the horse.

You should be waiting to find out if there is "sufficient proof" before you should ask if Trump should be indicted.
Excellent post!!
 

jcgriff2

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On December 19, 2020, President Trump, for all practical purposes, circled the date. The Times reports, "For weeks, President Trump and his supporters had been proclaiming Jan. 6, 2021, as a day of reckoning. A day to gather in Washington to “save America” and “stop the steal.”
Trump and his followers are doing the bidding of our foreign adversaries by attacking the foundation of our democracy, free and fair elections. Trump and his misguided followers are still saying he won the election without ever producing evidence of such an outrageous lie.


I do not expect Trump Republicans to respond to the issues in these two posts.

I'll answer.

1. Written by a once-great newspaper, but now the NYT only praises democrats and always trashes Republicans.

2. GOP 2020 election deniers - yes, they obviously do exist. But as I've said before... it is OK when democrats do something -- like denying an election - or three in the democrat's case. But if a republican does the same - shoot us on sight, right?

The democrats denied the presidential elections of 2000, 2004, 2016 - to this day - and... "NO EVIDENCE OF SUCH AN OUTRAGEOUS LIE" - to quote you - (but this is OK because the election deniers are democrats -

 

TheParser

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You seem unaware that -as I understand it- the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world.
I do know that it has the highest incarceration rate in the world.

People are right, IMHO, that non-violent drug crimes should not result in prison.

But all other violent crimes should.

And many people (including me) think that they know the reason for there being so many other violent crimes in this country.

One of President Reagan's Cabinet members even explicitly spoke about the reason in a radio interview but the next day quickly apologized for being so frank. We all are expected (especially in 2022) to keep mum on the reason.

Have a nice day!
 

WorldWatcher

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No for the documents, there's no mechanism for it.

1664448921912.png

In what world is t here no mechanism for the criminal indictment of a private citizen for being in illegal possession of government property and classified documetns and willfully retraining them when notified they need to be returned and then stonewalling the responsible agency for 16 months (NARA), an additional 2 months for the combined NARA and FBI, failure to comply with a Grad Jury Subpoena, and lying about certification that the conditions of the subpoena were satisfied?

Actually there is.

(NOTE: The above does not require said documents to even be classified.)

WW
 

Michael Cole

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I do know that it has the highest incarceration rate in the world.

People are right, IMHO, that non-violent drug crimes should not result in prison.

But all other violent crimes should.

And many people (including me) think that they know the reason for there being so many other violent crimes in this country.

One of President Reagan's Cabinet members even explicitly spoke about the reason in a radio interview but the next day quickly apologized for being so frank. We all are expected (especially in 2022) to keep mum on the reason.

Have a nice day!
THE BLACKS!!!!!

yeah, we know. your posts aren't very covert

Someone who bitches constantly about "THE BLACKS!!!" and says nothing else...ever...should move to a lily white part of the world. Save himself all that unnecessary bitching.
 
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Razoo

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There is several investigations into possible Trump wrong doing. To name a few, January 6th. , The attempt to change the outcome of the Georgia election by finding more votes, The documents removed from the White House and stored at Mar A Lago. There is also a possible one in New York concerning his manipulation of values of his properties. So far there have been no indictments, but if they find sufficient proof should Trump be indicted?
Hell yes .......... why wait until after midterms?
 

eohrnberger

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Trump deserves to be tortured and die in prison.
Your leftist tyranny is showing, this treatment reserved for anyone who have the temerity to hold differing political opinions and positions.

May you and your like never have the levers of power.
 

ElChupacabra

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There is several investigations into possible Trump wrong doing. To name a few, January 6th. , The attempt to change the outcome of the Georgia election by finding more votes, The documents removed from the White House and stored at Mar A Lago. There is also a possible one in New York concerning his manipulation of values of his properties. So far there have been no indictments, but if they find sufficient proof should Trump be indicted?
The best indicator of that will be the indictments themselves, and the caveat there is they will happen if the USAG thinks the case(s) can be won. This is a pretty interesting scenario in that the political aspect of all this comes into play too, and as a nation we haven't done very well at holding the powerful accountable.
 

Michael Cole

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Your leftist tyranny is showing, this treatment reserved for anyone who have the temerity to hold differing political opinions and positions.
Liz Cheney and Ron Portman hold differing political views. Trump is a criminal.
May you and your like never have the levers of power.
wslr8.jpg
 

KLATTU

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It looks like James is truly conducting a with hunt. Doesn't seem like much there .

Garland will most certainly charge him with something as it appears he does have the evidence.Right now, I think he is looking for something that indicates he did something more with that classified evidence then having it in boxes at Mar-A Lago. He is well aware that Hillary Clinton WASN't charged basically because they couldn't prove she did anything malevolent with classified information.
 

The AntiDonald

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I repeat, if there is sufficient evidence, should Trump be indicted? It’s a valid question, given his status and how unprecedented it would be. I imagine potential prosecutors will consider the enormity of such a move.
If they weren't considering such a move, Trump would already be under indictment. Hell, Mueller left enough evidence in the DOJs hands to indict him on obstruction charges 4 years ago.

Believe me, prosecutors are tip toeing through the tulips.
 

gdgyva

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As President of the United States I tell you to go home. It really was that simple to prevent the ensuing violence.
So guilty of bad judgement
Exactly what "crime" is that

See this is where the rubber meets the road

Trump is an idiot, an imbecile, and probably one of the most egotistical people ever to be elected
He never fathomed that he could lose
But i am not sure he committed an actual crime in regards to 1/6

He should have, could have done many other things

But what he did do....is there an actual crime there

Unless the DOJ can show he had phone calls or actual conversations with the people that actually committed the act....

But i guess we will see....
 

Fishking

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In what world is t here no mechanism for the criminal indictment of a private citizen for being in illegal possession of government property and classified documetns and willfully retraining them when notified they need to be returned and then stonewalling the responsible agency for 16 months (NARA), an additional 2 months for the combined NARA and FBI, failure to comply with a Grad Jury Subpoena, and lying about certification that the conditions of the subpoena were satisfied?

Actually there is.

(NOTE: The above does not require said documents to even be classified.)

WW
Because the President has special access and authority over this information.
 

WorldWatcher

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Because the President has special access and authority over this information.

After noon on January 20, 2021 the FPOTUS was no longer President. Documents were retrieved well after he left office such as those subject to the Grand Jury Subpoena in June 2022 and those confiscated per a search warrant executed in August 2022.

This has nothing to with with the FPOTUS possession of documents during his term of office, it has to do with his illegal possession of Presidential Records and Classified Documents that are the property of the United States Government **AFTER** he left office.

W
 

DCCougar

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I repeat, if there is sufficient evidence, should Trump be indicted? It’s a valid question....
Actually, it's not a valid question. Is there ANYONE who claims that even though there is sufficient evidence of a serious crime, Trump should NOT be indicted? Who would say that? Trump MUST be indicted and convicted if there is sufficient evidence that he committed a serious crime, and I believe there IS such sufficient evidence already available to the public. The coming indictment is only a matter of timing.
 

DCCougar

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Because the President has special access and authority over this information.
Newsflash! Trump is no longer "the President." He's just a regular big mac-eating citizen. He is subject to the law like anybody else.
 

Fishking

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After noon on January 20, 2021 the FPOTUS was no longer President. Documents were retrieved well after he left office such as those subject to the Grand Jury Subpoena in June 2022 and those confiscated per a search warrant executed in August 2022.

This has nothing to with with the FPOTUS possession of documents during his term of office, it has to do with his illegal possession of Presidential Records and Classified Documents that are the property of the United States Government **AFTER** he left office.

W
Correct. But the way a President can handle information, with the authority of their position, makes it an unclear case. As much as people want to make fun of the idea, there is nothing saying that the President can't literally just declare things unclassified and not privileged information, because all the regulations surrounding it are an EO, which is derived off of the President's authority itself. It's also not unprecedented.
 
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