If the War in Iraq Was About Freeing the Iraqis, Would You Support It?

If the War in Iraq Was About Freeing the Iraqis, Would You Support It?

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You mean supporting it by building a new prison and sticking 60,000 of their citizens in there. Strange kind of free, don't you think?

Navy Pride said:

I believe Saddam violated 17 UN resolutions.....That is good enough reason to take him out.....................

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Israel has violated 60 or more. Should we take them out?:roll:

Kelzie said:

So I was talking to a vet from the beginning of the Iraq War, and he painted a different picture than what the media does. According to him, he has never met an Iraqi that wasn't glad the US was there. He was very proud of the fact that we were there, despite the hardships (he lost two of his men in Fallujah), and he honestly believes we are doing good.

Now I personally don't believe we went there with the Iraqi people in mind. But if we had, I think I would have been okay with the war. Howbout everyone else? If the US had honestly gone into Iraq to free the Iraqi people, would you be okay with it? Is it okay for the US to invade a sovereign country if their people are being abused?

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If the Iraqis had wanted to be "freed" they would have done it themselves. Iraqis have plenty of guns and obviously are willing to fight those they dislike(us). The Shiite majority didn't like Saddam but obviously they didn't hate him enough to get off their butts and overthrow him. They did not ask us to invade. You can't march into another country, demolish it and then tell them how things are going to be from now on and expect the natives to be happy.

Kelzie said:

So I was talking to a vet from the beginning of the Iraq War, and he painted a different picture than what the media does. According to him, he has never met an Iraqi that wasn't glad the US was there. He was very proud of the fact that we were there, despite the hardships (he lost two of his men in Fallujah), and he honestly believes we are doing good.

Now I personally don't believe we went there with the Iraqi people in mind. But if we had, I think I would have been okay with the war. Howbout everyone else? If the US had honestly gone into Iraq to free the Iraqi people, would you be okay with it? Is it okay for the US to invade a sovereign country if their people are being abused?

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No staryting a war is never okay. Theres never a justifiable reason to do it.

It sickens me that so many lives have been lost in Iraq. American soldiers haved died, so that a secular dictator scum bug, can instantly be replaced by Islamic scholar theocrats. That deep down despise the very American soldiers that have just given them the chance to speel out their theocratic nightmare.

These people don't deserve democracy. Cultures that have not known of the concept of pluralism, freedom of speech, diversity of opinion, freedom of religion, cannot suddenly become democratic.

There is a reason that the West, overtook the Arab world. The renaissance brought free thinking to Europe, challenged the established church, and opened people's minds. This is what, Europe, U.S.A and Australia are ultimately benefiting from. Freedom from religious authoritarianism.

There is no point in trying to impose democracies in countries that do not and have never understood the meaning of democracy.

Saddam was a SOB, but is he any worse, than the other despot autocratic leaders in the middle east? That we turn a blind eye to just because we need their oil?

Kelzie said:

So I was talking to a vet from the beginning of the Iraq War, and he painted a different picture than what the media does. According to him, he has never met an Iraqi that wasn't glad the US was there. He was very proud of the fact that we were there, despite the hardships (he lost two of his men in Fallujah), and he honestly believes we are doing good.

Now I personally don't believe we went there with the Iraqi people in mind. But if we had, I think I would have been okay with the war. Howbout everyone else? If the US had honestly gone into Iraq to free the Iraqi people, would you be okay with it? Is it okay for the US to invade a sovereign country if their people are being abused?

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Wow, I'm impressed. I thought you were of the fantasy opinion that there is never cause for war. I apologize. I, personally would have supported removing Saddam for any of the justifiable reasons available, including this one. I believe historically speaking that free people are far less likely to go to war, because they themselves will suffer the immense, nightmarish violence. A sociopathic dictator has none of these reservations. I also believe that Iraq's free people will inspire other middle east countries (their people) to question their own bondage and repression. This also may require our assistance in many cases, and I hope we can continue to give it. I think the administration, sadly, felt they had to spin to accomplish their goal, and had they brought this reason alone to the rabid partisans on the left, Rwanda and 100 other examples would have ended up derailing it for them. I am very proud of our actions and I am sure that future generations of free iraqis will validate my pride.

Originally posted by thoracle:
Wow, I'm impressed. I thought you were of the fantasy opinion that there is never cause for war. I apologize. I, personally would have supported removing Saddam for any of the justifiable reasons available, including this one. I believe historically speaking that free people are far less likely to go to war, because they themselves will suffer the immense, nightmarish violence. A sociopathic dictator has none of these reservations. I also believe that Iraq's free people will inspire other middle east countries (their people) to question their own bondage and repression. This also may require our assistance in many cases, and I hope we can continue to give it. I think the administration, sadly, felt they had to spin to accomplish their goal, and had they brought this reason alone to the rabid partisans on the left, Rwanda and 100 other examples would have ended up derailing it for them. I am very proud of our actions and I am sure that future generations of free iraqis will validate my pride.

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Do you want to know what Iraqis think? Here's an Iraqi living in Iraq and what they have to say.

U.S. turns innocent Iraqis into fodder of its war on ‘terror’By Fatih Abdulsalam Azzaman, September 18, 2005

To persuade Americans that the war on ‘terror’ is worth the price in money and human life, the U.S. administration keeps telling them that Iraq has become the hub for terrorists in the world.

The U.S., the administration says, will remain safe so long as U.S. troops remain in that country fighting terrorists thousands of miles away from home.

But the administration fails to mention that Iraq harbored no such terrorists before its decision to invade the country and station more than 130,000 troops there.

As this U.S.’s Third World War rages, we the Iraqis have become its fodder whether we like it or not.

Everyone with a grudge against America, or everyone who hates American and would like it to be preoccupied with Iraq, now has a stake in this war.

As this ruinous struggle continues, we are the ones who are paying with our blood.

The U.S. war on terror, now being waged on our land, is a creation of the U.S. invasion of our country and has turned upside down U.S. plans and strategies for a vital region in the world of which Iraq is only one part.
There is no way our government, no matter how good-intentioned or powerful, to succeed under such circumstances.

Warring parties – U.S. and anti-U.S. forces – have converged on our land. And for many Iraqis taking sides is an easy matter. Instinctively, most of them cannot side with the foreigners who have come to occupy their country.

The results of circumstances like these are not hard to predict. If any thing, they can never be favorable for Iraq.

The ten successive and highly coordinated suicide bombings in the morning of a single day last week provide clear evidence that this war on ‘terror’ raging on our land cannot and will not be of benefit to us.

Those who paid for this reckless, brutal and inhumane bombing were innocent Iraqi victims and no one else.

Innocent Iraqis have become this war’s fodder.

http://www.azzaman.com/english/index.asp?fname=editorial\2005-09-18\10522.htm

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Now, keep in mind I'm not disputing what Kelzie said, which is probably also true.

Billo_Really said:

Do you want to know what Iraqis think? Here's an Iraqi living in Iraq and what they have to say.

Now, keep in mind I'm not disputing what Kelzie said, which is probably also true.

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CAN you post support from just 1 million other iraqis who have the same sentiment? I think not so this claim is irrelevent.

Also I suppot the war regardless. I think we all know that

Originally posted by SKILMATIC:
CAN you post support from just 1 million other iraqis who have the same sentiment? I think not so this claim is irrelevent.

Also I suppot the war regardless. I think we all know that

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Your saying what an Iraqi thinks about the occupation of Iraq while living in Iraq is not relevent to what a free Iraqi thinks?

Billo_Really said:

Your saying what an Iraqi thinks about the occupation of Iraq while living in Iraq is not relevent to what a free Iraqi thinks?

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Not 1 out of 60plus million who reside there. Remember majority my friend not minority and in this case a mini monority. Its like saying the terrorist were right for what they did when the far majority disagree you will agree with the minority(terrorists)? Polls indicate that less than 7% oppose the US occupation there for any reason. 30% oppose it because of religious reason(they beleive its the holyland and we arent holy)but they understand that we need to be there for the tranquility of their safety. But the rest of 63%are for our help and occupation till they get everything squared away. But even some of the Iraqi officials agree that we should have a base on their homeland much like alot of other countries.

Originally posted by SKILMATIC:
Not 1 out of 60plus million who reside there. Remember majority my friend not minority and in this case a mini monority. Its like saying the terrorist were right for what they did when the far majority disagree you will agree with the minority(terrorists)? Polls indicate that less than 7% oppose the US occupation there for any reason. 30% oppose it because of religious reason(they beleive its the holyland and we arent holy)but they understand that we need to be there for the tranquility of their safety. But the rest of 63%are for our help and occupation till they get everything squared away. But even some of the Iraqi officials agree that we should have a base on their homeland much like alot of other countries.

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What do Iraqi officials know about average Iraqi citizens? They stay barricaded in the Green Zone. How do they know whats going on in the rest of the country? They don't. All they know is that their missing one billion dollars of our taxpayer money that is now un-accounted for.

Billo_Really said:

What do Iraqi officials know about average Iraqi citizens? They stay barricaded in the Green Zone. How do they know whats going on in the rest of the country? They don't. All they know is that their missing one billion dollars of our taxpayer money that is now un-accounted for.

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The Marines and soldiers know, but you don't seem to care about that either. The people that are beniffitting from the vast improvements to infrastructure to include outlying areas know. I told you before, "Fatih Abdulsalam" is a journalist who writes opinionated editorials for an Arabic newspaper called the 'Azzaman' (The Times). I often agree with him, however he is known to write depending on the mood he is in. He is well known to the intel circuit. (NOT for negative reasons.) He is not an average Iraqi. Why do you persist to only focus on what you want the picture to look like? Perhaps you would be interested in something else he wrote before the elections.....

"The word ``democracy'' is at the tip of almost every tongue in Iraq. It is a nice word provided it is applied properly. In Iraq, it is not difficult to see how different and fractious the various political parties are. While they differ on almost everything, they have exhibited a remarkable degree of concurrence when talking about the word ``democracy.'' It is a household appellation in their political literature, employed so frequently in the writing of banners, headlines and editorials. But it appears that these factions, without exception, would not accept the notion that democracy, among other things, means you have no right to erect concrete barriers that protrude onto the pavement and down to the main street allegedly to protect your party office against a bomb attack. It is hard to persuade these factions that their bragging about democracy contradicts the presence of their armed militiamen who take the law into their own hands. We in Iraq need to be taught that there is more to democracy than the freedom of speech, gathering and formation of political parties. Democracy means keeping the street; the park and the neighborhood clean and tidy even in the absence of municipal observers. Under a democracy political parties as well as individuals keep an eye on public property and infrastructure instead of wrecking it. If we cannot maintain our public telephones, preserve our school buildings and other state-owned utilities, democracy will have no meaning. Under a democracy, citizens cooperate with the police to reinstate stability and report on those upsetting public order. There is no doubt that we now enjoy freedoms we did not dream of under the rule of Saddam Hussein. But at the same time we see horrors we rarely heard of during his long reign of terror.When Iraqis do not feel ready to take on the added responsibilities that come with democracy, there will be no one to protect polling centers and ballot boxes in the forthcoming general elections."

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/iraq/2004/09/imm-040905-unami.htm

Basicly, he is saying what I have said. Iraq has an opportunity to do something good, but they are wasting it. Since the above was written, Iraqi civilians have been car bombed by disruptive local Sunni and Zarqawi forces. They are going through a tough time, but they also are not stepping up to the plate like they should to help us help them. They are quite possibly going to fail themselves, because once we leave (sooner than you think), they will be on their own and it will be up to the Iraqi military, the police force, and the common citizen to hold the defense and integrity of it together in the face of their own Muslim brothers.