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If the U.S. wants to let Russia (and the rest of the world) know we're serious...restart the draft.

Dayton3 said:
Forget sanctions, forget stationing more U.S. forces overseas, forget putting U.S. nuclear weapons on alert, a step that would really put the Russians and the rest of the world on notice (including both our enemies and our friends) would be restarting conscription in the United States.

Such a move would be extremely serious, expensive, and controversial but not immediately provocative to the Russians or China. If the Biden Admin. proposed it and pushed to get it through Congress despite the mammoth opposition it would announce more than anything else that the U.S. is serious about resisting Russian (and Chinese) foreign adventurism. Not to mention in one fell swoop it would show Americans just how serious the global situation is now. And perhaps get Americans to stop whining about gasoline prices and other economic troubles
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We are not sending our troops to face a nuclear holocaust so this topic is inane. Starting the draft would only make fighting the conflicts we choose to engage in even harder. People will always whine about gas prices too.
 
MamboDervish said:
The Pentagon - the recipient of new troops - would never go for it, and for many reasons. According to the Pentagon, conscripts are part of the reason we lost in Vietnam. When professional soldiers enlist, their families don't complain when they come home in body bags, because they know it was their own child's choice. When conscripts come back in body bags, their families take to the streets and protest in the tens-of-thousands. That's what they did during the Vietnam conflict. A "professional" military doesn't question the mission because they signed on as a career.

Also, the professional military we have now is far more specialized than it has ever been in our history. The days when 95% of them came out of boot camp and were handed a rifle and a backpack are long gone. It takes more time and money now to train them for the roles they'll be expected to fill. The days of amassing huge infantries have been fading for a long time. The Pentagon is looking to cultivate robot mechanics, drone pilots, IT experts, etc. . . . . . not for cannon fodder.
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Vietnam was not lost by conscripts fer ****s sake.

It was lost by Washington D.C.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Vietnam was not lost by conscripts fer ****s sake.

It was lost by Washington D.C.
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Vietnam was lost before it began. It was a war fought on false pretenses against a country we had no business being involved with. The "domino" theory was a lie. Vietnam is now our ally against China.
 
Dayton3 said:
You obviously have never read about the staggering numbers and percentages of U.S. soldiers court-martialed during World War Two.
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Another meaningless factoid that has nothing to do with the reasons the Pentagon did away with conscription, lobbying instead for an "all volunteer" military.
 
Dayton3 said:
You don't realize do you that the U.S. military during the Vietnam War had a far LOWER percentage of draftees than the U.S. military in World War Two.?

So your entire first paragraph is false.
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You lost me. He never said anything that would suggest more people were drafted in Vietnam than in WW2. Also your anology makes no sense. Vietnam was not Nazi Germany or Japan threatening the entire world. For that matter Korea was not Iraq or Afghanistan. Comparing different military interventions as being the same makes no sense. If heaven forbid Russia attacks a NATO country you might get your wish.

Also the analogy with you if it was accurate actually would are you willing to give up your dialysis so someone in the armed forces who was drafted can get it, if the need arose? You see? Its easy to talk about sacrifices of others. Too easy. That is also not a fair question to throw at you or anyone else. I can not assume to know what it is like to be in your shoes or anyone else's when it comes to telling them about what they must do. That was my point.

Yes there is a legitimate argument to make that at certain times drafts may be required. When that is-remains the issue.

I jalso ust don't think comparing wars and conflicts and putting them all in one category is fair analysis.

By the way your hero Donny Trumpet never put his fat ass on the line for anyone please remember that. That fat ass insulted genuine war vets. He can phack himself for that.

IBefore anyone discusses drafts of what people should do they need to shut up and listen to the perspective of vets not people who know their lives are not ever going to be on the line in a war.
 
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75% of American soldiers did not shoot to kill in Vietnam .

The other 25% were presumably not very skilled .

Better that American youth sticks to rapping .Nowhere near as tricky .
 
Dayton3 said:
You don't know that I'm 54 years old with major medical conditions that would preclude me from getting in the military even if I begged them?
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Huh, I could swear I remember you saying you're in your 80s. Mistake I guess.
 
iguanaman said:
Vietnam was lost before it began. It was a war fought on false pretenses against a country we had no business being involved with. The "domino" theory was a lie. Vietnam is now our ally against China.
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False. Though the Second Gulf of Tonkin Incident did not happen the first one certainly did and the North Vietnamese openly admitted it.
 
Mika-El said:
By the way your hero Donny Trumpet never put his fat ass on the line for anyone please remember that. That fat ass insulted genuine war vets. He can phack himself for that.
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You have obviously forgotten that I hate Donald Trump. I didn't vote to put him in office.
 
Dayton3 said:
Forget sanctions, forget stationing more U.S. forces overseas, forget putting U.S. nuclear weapons on alert, a step that would really put the Russians and the rest of the world on notice (including both our enemies and our friends) would be restarting conscription in the United States.
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Yeah, why NOT completely **** the military up right when we need it?
 
yeah, we're not powerful militarily.
 
Hamish Howl said:
Tell me of your expertise in this matter.
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My dad was drafted to fight in Korea. He would never have volunteered. He hated the thought of going. Yet by all accounts he was a quite accomplished soldier.

How is that?
 
Dayton3 said:
My dad was drafted to fight in Korea. He would never have volunteered. He hated the thought of going. Yet by all accounts he was a quite accomplished soldier.

How is that?
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The plural of anecdote is not data.
 
Dayton3 said:
Don't know what you mean by that.
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The fact that you can point to a single reputed instance of conscription working out okay does not mean that conscription as a whole is a viable means of serving the strategic interests of the United States.
 
Why on earth would anyone think it a good idea to reinstate the draft?

It was a bad idea when it existed - it would be a worse idea now.
 
Dayton3 said:
Forget sanctions, forget stationing more U.S. forces overseas, forget putting U.S. nuclear weapons on alert, a step that would really put the Russians and the rest of the world on notice (including both our enemies and our friends) would be restarting conscription in the United States.

Such a move would be extremely serious, expensive, and controversial but not immediately provocative to the Russians or China. If the Biden Admin. proposed it and pushed to get it through Congress despite the mammoth opposition it would announce more than anything else that the U.S. is serious about resisting Russian (and Chinese) foreign adventurism. Not to mention in one fell swoop it would show Americans just how serious the global situation is now. And perhaps get Americans to stop whining about gasoline prices and other economic troubles
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First, it seems like the conservatives are the whiners, 61% of Americans accept higher gas prices to place sanctions on Russia.... :unsure:

Second, creating cannon fodder doesn't threaten anyone. The cost of paying the new recruits would be crippling. Crippling the Russian economy and stripping wealth from Putin's cronies makes far more sense.

Third, I doubt Putin would be afraid of conscripts- especially if the inductees are films bitching about induction. His conscripts suck major buttocks, I doubt he'd see ours as much of a threat... ✌️
 
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