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If the Arab ME became democratic would there still be hostilty towards Israel?

Chris

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A hypothetical question here. Suppose that every predominantly Arabic country (minus the Palestinian territories) became democratic and secular. How do you feel this would effect their view of Israel/Judaism/Zionism, etc. Would Arabs remain vehmently opposed to the existance of the Jewish state or embrace Israel as a friend and ally?

Your thoughts?
 
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I think that if all the Arabic countries of the world had modern government systems, their relations would probably become closer to Israel. I think that probably the Muslims that are most opposed to the state of Israel are the more hardcore extremists and uneducated ones. I think, that if all of the middle east had modern government, than it would be no problem for a Muslim in any middle eastern state to visit the Gaza strip (which is now going to the Palestineans anyways) and they probably wouldn't find it worthwhile to kill people as often in the name of their religion. The same has shown true of most similar religions for the most part.

I'm sure they'll always rather that everyone is a Muslim, and rather that Muslims controlled Juresalem, but like other religions, they will probably become more concerned about "converting" people than killing infidels.
 

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No, at least not immediately. They would still harbor their hatred for "inferiors" and "infidels". Their issues with Jews and Israel, among other lesser things, is simple and pure anti-Semitic racism. The slaughtering of 2 million black Christians in the Sudan by fundamental Islamists on a religious rampage shows just how far militant Islamics will go. Their superiority complexes don't just stop at Israel and Democracy will only offer them the chance to mend their failing civilization. It isn't a matter of changing their governments to a more democratic practice, they must change and evolve their religion. When an entire civilization embraces the butchery of their "martyrs", both the civilization and the religion are in trouble. Underneath their democracy, they will still practice a barbaric version of Islam and they will continue to breed the worst kind of religious zealot - the self-appointed executioner of God.

For a better understanding of this...look at the Kurds. That poor state of Kurdistan has advanced past the arab rich Middle East. They practice democracy and they practice equality among the genders. They educate beyond what the Arab Cleric restrict. They practice a more civilized version of Islam and is at peace with Israel. How curious that they are seen as the trash amongst other Muslim sects (Shi'ites and Sunni).
 
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MiamiFlorida

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Chris said:
A hypothetical question here. Suppose that every predominantly Arabic country (minus the Palestinian territories) became democratic and secular. How do you feel this would effect their view of Israel/Judaism/Zionism, etc. Would Arabs remain vehmently opposed to the existance of the Jewish state or embrace Israel as a friend and ally?

Your thoughts?
Democratic/Secular governments don't teach antisemitism in their classrooms and don't sponsor terrorism. It would take a while for all the hatred to subside. It would certainly be a long journey.
 

cherokee

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GySgt said:
No, at least not immediately. They would still harbor their hatred for "inferiors" and "infidels". Their issues with Jews and Israel, among other lesser things, is simple and pure anti-Semitic racism. The slaughtering of 2 million black Christians in the Sudan by fundamental Islamists on a religious rampage shows just how far militant Islamics will go. Their superiority complexes don't just stop at Israel and Democracy will only offer them the chance to mend their failing civilization. It isn't a matter of changing their governments to a more democratic practice, they must change and evolve their religion. When an entire civilization embraces the butchery of their "martyrs", both the civilization and the religion are in trouble. Underneath their democracy, they will still practice a barbaric version of Islam and they will continue to breed the worst kind of religious zealot - the self-appointed executioner of God.

For a better understanding of this...look at the Kurds. That poor state of Kurdistan has advanced past the arab rich Middle East. They practice democracy and they practice equality among the genders. They educate beyond what the Arab Cleric restrict. They practice a more civilized version of Islam and is at peace with Israel. How curious that they are seen as the trash amongst other Muslim sects (Shi'ites and Sunni).


Good reply.:agree
 

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What does Democracy have to do with Arabs hating the Israeli's treat Palestinians?
 

MiamiFlorida

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Surenderer said:
What does Democracy have to do with Arabs hating the Israeli's treat Palestinians?
And how do Palestinians treat the Israelis?
 

Chris

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Democratization of the Arabic world would be of great benefit to the lives of millions of oppressed people. Without corrupt dictators exploiting anti-semitic, sexist, and religious fundamentalist feelings to distract from their own degradation of Arabic culture, intolerance of foreigners would likely decrease.

For genuine democracy and freedom to take hold there would need to be social and political openness both of which are sorely lacking under the existing regimes. While I condone hatred of Jews I don't find it the least bit surprising that there would be such strong anti-Jewish sediment amongst many Arabs. When the ruling regimes are constantly feeding their people nothing but negative propaganda about Jews and Judaism is it really surprising?

To answer my original question. I do believe that genuinely democratic Arab states would be much more tolerant to ward Jews. I would place religious reconciliation and secularization as being among the foremost tasks of newly democratic Arab states. However while I see Arabs as showing tolerance to wards Jews and other minorities and perhaps even extending the hand of friendship to Israel, I can't see them ever accepting the exiting status quo or embracing Zionism.

I believe that if the yolk of Arab dictators where thrown off it would radically alter the landscape of the Middle East. Integration and Pan Arabism would likely re-emerge as a viable force in Arabic politics. A United Arab state(s) with the genuine capacity to resist or even destroy Israel, while perhaps sympathetic to Jewish suffering and Israel's existence, would quickly put an end to Israeli occupation of Gaza, the West Bank, and other disputed territories. Special status regarding Jerusalem and other sites of mutual significance to Jews and Muslims would have to negotiated. Additionally Israel would likely be forced to give compensation and right of return to Palestinian refugees

While a democratic Middle East could very well usher in a new era of peace it would also serve as a uniting factor for the greatly divided Arabic world, effectively halting any Israeli expansion and removing Israel as the dominant Eco-political power in the region.
 

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Very well said. I too share many of your sentiments, except the condoning hatred of Jews. I don't condone hating anyone. I do, however, condone the finger pointing of a group (Sunni) that are running amock and are the root of the Middle Eastern problem.
 

Chris

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:doh oh crap
"condemn" is what I meant to say
 

MSgt

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Bwahahaha.

Get a moderator to change it for you. I must admit, I found it to be such a bold statement that I laughed.
 

MiamiFlorida

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Chris said:
Democratization of the Arabic world would be of great benefit to the lives of millions of oppressed people. Without corrupt dictators exploiting anti-semitic, sexist, and religious fundamentalist feelings to distract from their own degradation of Arabic culture, intolerance of foreigners would likely decrease.

For genuine democracy and freedom to take hold there would need to be social and political openness both of which are sorely lacking under the existing regimes. While I condone hatred of Jews I don't find it the least bit surprising that there would be such strong anti-Jewish sediment amongst many Arabs. When the ruling regimes are constantly feeding their people nothing but negative propaganda about Jews and Judaism is it really surprising?
To answer my original question. I do believe that genuinely democratic Arab states would be much more tolerant to ward Jews. I would place religious reconciliation and secularization as being among the foremost tasks of newly democratic Arab states. However while I see Arabs as showing tolerance to wards Jews and other minorities and perhaps even extending the hand of friendship to Israel, I can't see them ever accepting the exiting status quo or embracing Zionism.

I believe that if the yolk of Arab dictators where thrown off it would radically alter the landscape of the Middle East. Integration and Pan Arabism would likely re-emerge as a viable force in Arabic politics. A United Arab state(s) with the genuine capacity to resist or even destroy Israel, while perhaps sympathetic to Jewish suffering and Israel's existence, would quickly put an end to Israeli occupation of Gaza, the West Bank, and other disputed territories. Special status regarding Jerusalem and other sites of mutual significance to Jews and Muslims would have to negotiated. Additionally Israel would likely be forced to give compensation and right of return to Palestinian refugees

While a democratic Middle East could very well usher in a new era of peace it would also serve as a uniting factor for the greatly divided Arabic world, effectively halting any Israeli expansion and removing Israel as the dominant Eco-political power in the region.
You brought up some very good points. The Arabs, Jews and Christians of Granada, Seville and Cordoba in the Middle Ages got along well....until religious fundamentalism arrived.
 
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