If president trump declares a national emergency so he can keep his campaign promise...

[Mycroft]

Does not change the fact that once he lets that kitty out of the bag, it's not going back in ever again.
Do you ever learn anything?

LOL!!

The "kitty" is already out of the bag. It's been out of the bag for decades.

Do YOU ever learn anything?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

LOL!!

The "kitty" is already out of the bag. It's been out of the bag for decades.

Do YOU ever learn anything?

Are you referring to the so called "thirty ongoing national emergencies"?

 

[Mycroft]

Are you referring to the so called "thirty ongoing national emergencies"?

I'm referring to every President going back to Carter declaring national emergencies for all manner of things...including Trump.

 

[Deuce]

I'm referring to every President going back to Carter declaring national emergencies for all manner of things...including Trump.

And this one is clearly motivated just to gin up the base, not something he actually considers an emergency.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I'm referring to every President going back to Carter declaring national emergencies for all manner of things...including Trump.

So you won't have any trouble listing a few of them.

 

[Mycroft]

And this one is clearly motivated just to gin up the base, not something he actually considers an emergency.

LOL!!

Of course he considers this an emergency.

 

[Mycroft]

So you won't have any trouble listing a few of them.

Are you doubting the truth of what I say?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Are you doubting the truth of what I say?

I asked you to list a few as examples. You brought them up, so it's your job to list them if you want. Or don't list them, but I don't intend to do your work for you. Pick your favorites.

By the way, past Democratic presidents have triggered shutdowns, just not any lasting thirty-five days followed by a threat to repeat the process again in three weeks.

 

[NotreDame]

I disagree with you on this last point. The word emergency means that something is happening right now that has to be addressed right now You don't call 911 and say you have an emergency but if you get here 2 years later it is okay.

Assuming a 9-11 style “emergency” is what the statute is also contemplating as an “emergency.” Yet, the statute doesn’t define “emergency,” rendering your argument a bit weak.

In addition, declaring a national emergency allows the President access to 123 statutory powers for the President to exercise. In other words, declaring a national emergency gives the President access to vast statutory powers he otherwise lacks statutorily without declaring a national emergency.

So, it could be there was a national emergency but Trump chose not to invoke it, believing other means could perhaps be used to meet the national emergency. In other words, perhaps there’s been a national emergency but Trump didn’t believe previously he needed any of the 123 national emergency statutory powers granted to him to address the national emergency, hence he didn’t declare one previously.

Indeed, if you look into the history of some of those prior 58 declared national emergencies, you’ll quickly realize some of the circumstances of some of those national emergencies had existed for some time before a national emergency was declared.

I have no doubt this will end up in court. I hope the courts render the statutes unconstitutional. But I suspect, given the broad statutory language vesting wife latitude and discretion by Congress to the President, the federal judiciary will invoke the Political Question Doctrine, and punt on the issue.


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[marke]

If president trump declares a national emergency so he can keep his campaign promise I would like to make a suggestion. The confederate statues that have come down, put them on top of the wall. That should scare any potential border jumpers to turn around and go back.

Tens of millions of people are for border barriers. That is why democrats paid for walls to be built under Obama. They cannot help do the collective national will in building more walls now that Trump has gotten behind the idea because if they support walls now it will look like Trump is doing a good thing for America by promoting border security. Now the fickle democrats are not for keeping the government open, for getting government workers paid or for building more border barriers no matter how many tens of millions of Americans want them to because they feel they must take a stand against Trump at all costs.

 

[Nickyjo]

He has defined the crisis multiple times in just the last couple months. Haven't you been listening?

Let’s see. Two issues: Illegal immigration and a human rights situation in Central America producing refugees that the US and other nations have to deal with. Illegal immigration has been down for the past few years and he has changed the rules to make Central Americans largely ineligible for asylum. Sounds like the only crisis might be for him in the courts as his illegal policy is challenged.

 

[Deuce]

LOL!!

Of course he considers this an emergency.

A really ****in slow emergency

 

[Luckyone]

Assuming a 9-11 style “emergency” is what the statute is also contemplating as an “emergency.” Yet, the statute doesn’t define “emergency,” rendering your argument a bit weak.

In addition, declaring a national emergency allows the President access to 123 statutory powers for the President to exercise. In other words, declaring a national emergency gives the President access to vast statutory powers he otherwise lacks statutorily without declaring a national emergency.

So, it could be there was a national emergency but Trump chose not to invoke it, believing other means could perhaps be used to meet the national emergency. In other words, perhaps there’s been a national emergency but Trump didn’t believe previously he needed any of the 123 national emergency statutory powers granted to him to address the national emergency, hence he didn’t declare one previously.

Indeed, if you look into the history of some of those prior 58 declared national emergencies, you’ll quickly realize some of the circumstances of some of those national emergencies had existed for some time before a national emergency was declared.

I have no doubt this will end up in court. I hope the courts render the statutes unconstitutional. But I suspect, given the broad statutory language vesting wife latitude and discretion by Congress to the President, the federal judiciary will invoke the Political Question Doctrine, and punt on the issue.


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One thing that has not been mentioned but is an important part of declaring an emergency. It would mean the President would be appropriating funds from somewhere else where the funds have already been allocated. The Military, Social Security, Education fall in that category and that would be a clear disaster for Trump because other programs that are move important would be affected and none of those areas would support such action and the public would not support it either.

 

[NotreDame]

One thing that has not been mentioned but is an important part of declaring an emergency. It would mean the President would be appropriating funds from somewhere else where the funds have already been allocated. The Military, Social Security, Education fall in that category and that would be a clear disaster for Trump because other programs that are move important would be affected and none of those areas would support such action and the public would not support it either.

Actually, if I’ve read the statute right, there is guiding statutory language governing how he can appropriate the Pentagon funds he desires for the wall. I’m not sure he can meet those statutory provisos.


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[NotreDame]

At some point doesn't he have to define the crisis? Is it masses of duct-taped women being smuggled across the border? Mexican rapists? Un-vetted Syrian refugees? Drug smugglers with cantaloupe-calves? Polite Canadians?

Perhaps, but the statute gives him such broad discretion and wide latitude that I fear the courts will characterize the declaration of a national emergency as a political question under the Political Question Doctrine.


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[NotreDame]

Declaring a national emergency takes him all of twenty minutes. He’s waited two years.

So?


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[Mycroft]

I asked you to list a few as examples. You brought them up, so it's your job to list them if you want. Or don't list them, but I don't intend to do your work for you. Pick your favorites.

By the way, past Democratic presidents have triggered shutdowns, just not any lasting thirty-five days followed by a threat to repeat the process again in three weeks.

Not interested in doing your homework for you. If you want your list, go find it.

If you think I'm lying about what I said, say so and present your evidence.

Debate. Don't play games.

 

[Mycroft]

Let’s see. Two issues: Illegal immigration and a human rights situation in Central America producing refugees that the US and other nations have to deal with. Illegal immigration has been down for the past few years and he has changed the rules to make Central Americans largely ineligible for asylum. Sounds like the only crisis might be for him in the courts as his illegal policy is challenged.

So...you haven't been listening.

Trump has defined the crisis as humanitarian and security.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Not interested in doing your homework for you. If you want your list, go find it.

If you think I'm lying about what I said, say so and present your evidence.

Debate. Don't play games.

Excuse me, when you make a statement like THIS:

I'm referring to every President going back to Carter declaring national emergencies for all manner of things...including Trump.

It is YOUR homework.
So now everyone in this forum sees that you are acting like a child, great job! :applaud

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Then every year when the government tries to pass a budget we can hold the entire thing hostage unless we get our special liberal programs passed.

Except Democrats have bet the farm on never allowing a shutdown of this nature again.
Senator Mark Warner even introduced a bill to prevent the government from shutting down in such an impasse.

The Stop Stupidity Act

Even a couple of GOP Senators are introducing similar bills of their own. The distaste for a stunt is very strong on both sides of the aisle.

 

[Deuce]

So?


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So why wait

 

[Nickyjo]

Perhaps, but the statute gives him such broad discretion and wide latitude that I fear the courts will characterize the declaration of a national emergency as a political question under the Political Question Doctrine.


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And thus the republic is endangered.

 

[Nickyjo]

So...you haven't been listening.ught

Trump has defined the crisis as humanitarian and security.

Trump the humanitarian. Strange, never thought of him that way.

 

[Mycroft]

Trump the humanitarian. Strange, never thought of him that way.

Why not?

 

[Nickyjo]

Why not?

Lessee: his lying about Syrian refugees vetting, his separation of kids from their families and putting kids in cages as a deterrent, his actions on the Central Park Five, his reversing course and allowing dumping of mine waste into streams, his weakening of workplace safety rules, his proposed total Muslim ban, his suggestion that Middle Easterners were part of the caravan, his Mexicans are rapists speech, his spreading false info on black on white crime... the list goes on.