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If Obama wins

Tigger

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Not complaining they got ahead by who they know, complaining they get farther ahead because of government regulations, tax laws, etc...

On that we will agree.

First off mediCARE is paid for out of your payroll taxes. Take a look at your paycheck, you will see the deduction there. So granny damn sure worked for it.

In a lot of cases she's got it through her deceased husband's Social Security benefits, because she was where she should have been.... AT HOME, not in the workforce

Second, you really are bitter, aren't you? You honestly think all birth defects are because of the mothers lack of self care during pregnancy?

Not at all. My birth defect is purely a genetic issue, as are most. However, many children today do suffer because of the poor choices their parents make before and during pregnancy.

Third, with the views you have towards the health and welfare of your fellow americans, I would assume you have no problem with abortion? Or are you saying those people who are found to be less healthy in the womb, their mothers should be forced to give birth (because to abort would be wrong) so the child can live desperate, painful, miserable lives? (because giving them aid would be wrong too).

I am against abortion in all cases except Rape and where the LIFE (not health) of the mother is in IMMEDIATE danger. Other than that the woman made a conscious decision to engage in the act that created the pregnancy and she should be required to deal with those consequences. If she cannot or does not want to deal with the child, she can always put it up for adoption.

Yeah, see, that's the wrong mentality. Those people who write your paycheck, they need you just as much as you need them. If it weren't for you, they wouldn't be making the money they make, now would they? You give them an honest days work, they need to give you an honest days pay.

If I wasn't doing the work they'd find someone else to do it, whether here in the US or elsewhere. That's the reality of the situation. Or they would find a way to mechanize my work. Ether way, I end up broke.
 

Diogenes

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I think if we could ever get the sides clearly defined, both sides would employ that type of tactic. As I tell people all the time, Conservatism isn't about SMALL Government as much as it is about PROPERLY FOCUSED Government.

Very well said, a concise statement of the core problem.
 

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True. What makes those who aren't making money less acceptable is their desire to have the government take money from those who ARE making it to pay for their own wants, needs, and desires. This is especially true in the cases of those who have the ability to make money but who are not for one reason or another and those whose inability to make money is directly attributable to poor choices they themselves made.

Most people do not have the desire to live off Government aid. All I have to say is, if we take the social welfare programs out of government, then we must also take the corporate welfare our of government. Rich people have their hand out to government as much as poor people do. There will always be those who want government hand outs, rich and poor. I see no reason to bad mouth the poor for accepting government help and ignore the fact that there are rich people that feed off of government also.
 

Hairytic

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If Obama wins, it will be a huge step toward some very troublesome times for this country.

If times that are this awful for so many, led by a president this embarassingly disconnected and clueless, and with an increasingly unfixable debt approaching $16 trillion, does not result in a change in office.....then essentially we will become fully and completely headed toward a European-style socialist existence. Liberals would have officially accomplished their goal, and austerity measure talk and riots in the streets will be around the corner for the U.S., too.

However, there's still a huge faction of people left to fight this in the only way they'll have left. There's a war brewing within our borders. How it will be fought is scary to think about, but it will be inevitable.

This isn't your grandpa's presidential election. This is different. These implications are imminently real, not a can we can kick down the road yet again.

There is no indication this country is headed for a war within it's boarders. If Obama is re-elected, the sky will not fall and the end of the world will not be around the corner.
 

Tigger

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Most people do not have the desire to live off Government aid. All I have to say is, if we take the social welfare programs out of government, then we must also take the corporate welfare our of government. Rich people have their hand out to government as much as poor people do. There will always be those who want government hand outs, rich and poor. I see no reason to bad mouth the poor for accepting government help and ignore the fact that there are rich people that feed off of government also.

We are 100% in agreement. There should be no personal welfare, corporate welfare, nor international welfare in the US Budget/Government.
 

Somerville

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We are 100% in agreement. There should be no personal welfare, corporate welfare, nor international welfare in the US Budget/Government.


[sarcasm]Oh yeah, that would make for a nice peaceful nation.[/sarcasm]


:gunner: :gunsmilie :blastem:
 

Tigger

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Somerville, what is it that makes you think removing these unConstitutional items would incite some form of mass revolt?
 

TheNextEra

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Somerville, what is it that makes you think removing these unConstitutional items would incite some form of mass revolt?


Because what do you think will happen when you cut personal welfare completely off cold turkey and then you have millions of people on the street?

Sorry, but I am so glad there is noone of importance even CLOSE to what your lean is on the right.
 

winston53660

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Because what do you think will happen when you cut personal welfare completely off cold turkey and then you have millions of people on the street?

Well they can bake cakes and eat them;)
 

Tigger

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Because what do you think will happen when you cut personal welfare completely off cold turkey and then you have millions of people on the street?

What's going to happen to a lot of them is that they're going to get lead poisoning while trying to rob places.
 

EyesWideOpen

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In a lot of cases she's got it through her deceased husband's Social Security benefits, because she was where she should have been.... AT HOME, not in the workforce

You didn't really think that one out did you? First you say granny's getting aid she didn't work a day in her life for, now you're saying she got if from her husbands benefits, because that's where she should be? Let me tell you, any woman who is a stay at home mother/wife works a hella lot harder than most people give credit for. Either way, granny sure did earn that mediCARE.
And BTW, I know plenty men who are stay at home fathers/husbands, and do a good job of it. They too earned the benefits of their spouse.



I am against abortion in all cases except Rape and where the LIFE (not health) of the mother is in IMMEDIATE danger. Other than that the woman made a conscious decision to engage in the act that created the pregnancy and she should be required to deal with those consequences. If she cannot or does not want to deal with the child, she can always put it up for adoption.

Again, poorly thought out. You want to force women to have children they do not want to have? You think they're going to take maternal care of the pregnancy?
Now you have more unhealthy babies. Babies that will be given up for adoption. Babies that are now more difficult to adopt out because they have medical problems.
Most people want healthy, "perfect" babies to adopt. So.... do we now throw those babies into the street to die? Because by your standards, no government monies for them. Your "morals" and "ethics" don't add up. Just sounds like a bunch of nasty, bitter rhetoric.
 

TheNextEra

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What's going to happen to a lot of them is that they're going to get lead poisoning while trying to rob places.

That's a possibility if that were to happen. My comment was mainly a response to your question of why we would think there would be mass riots if all forms of personal welfare would be cut off.

I am forever glad that there are no authoritarian politicians in any position to make that happen.
 

Tigger

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You didn't really think that one out did you? First you say granny's getting aid she didn't work a day in her life for, now you're saying she got if from her husbands benefits, because that's where she should be? Let me tell you, any woman who is a stay at home mother/wife works a hella lot harder than most people give credit for. Either way, granny sure did earn that mediCARE.

She didn't work for it, her husband did. I agree that housewives and mothers do a lot of work. However, we don't give them MediCare for it because there is no payment into the system for their work. Their benefit is derived from what their husband paid in.

And BTW, I know plenty men who are stay at home fathers/husbands, and do a good job of it. They too earned the benefits of their spouse.

I would tend to disagree.

Again, poorly thought out. You want to force women to have children they do not want to have? You think they're going to take maternal care of the pregnancy? Now you have more unhealthy babies. Babies that will be given up for adoption.

I don't care whether tehy take care of the pregnancy or not. I simply want them to be punished for their improper act with 9 months of discomfort and displeasure. I would also like to punish them with a ring, and the father of their child with a matching one, with no chance for divorce.

Babies that are now more difficult to adopt out because they have medical problems. Most people want healthy, "perfect" babies to adopt. So.... do we now throw those babies into the street to die? Because by your standards, no government monies for them.

We simply tell these potential adoptive parents that these are the children available. If they don't want them, that's fine. They've been given their chance and they can now get to the back of the line again. The proper place for these children to be supported, if necessary, is through PRIVATE charitable groups, not the government.

Your "morals" and "ethics" don't add up. Just sounds like a bunch of nasty, bitter rhetoric.

No, they're just based on something that isn't very popular these days.... PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.
 

EyesWideOpen

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No, they're just based on something that isn't very popular these days.... PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

Not my definition of PERSONAL RESPONSIBIITY.

MY definition is - It is my responsibility to care for those who paved the road I now walk on. Those who came before me, to make my path better.
It is my responsibility to pave the road ahead of me, so that those who come behind me can walk the road I have set.
It is my responsibility to help those who can not walk the road, but who can add to the meaning of it.

Those are the personal responsibilities I have. Yours seem selfish to me.

Yes, there are those who take advantage, and they are in many different financial/social levels.
I just don't see them as the majority.
 

Tigger

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MY definition of Personal Responsibility is very simple: Taking care of yourself and those in your immedate family and close friends. Owning up to the decisions you have made/not made and enduring the consequences of those actions/inactions. Always considering life as an investment - what will you get back for the time, energy, money, etc.... that you invest in something.
 

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he wont win.. but our country will be quickly sliding toward France and the USA that was the world beacon will be gone and all freedom loving people will be in peril.. the Jihad will go into a more active and violent period..

the GOP will survive as Liberalism is a failure

You're delusional.
 

Diogenes

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Not my definition of PERSONAL RESPONSIBIITY.

MY definition is - It is my responsibility to care for those who paved the road I now walk on. Those who came before me, to make my path better.
It is my responsibility to pave the road ahead of me, so that those who come behind me can walk the road I have set.
It is my responsibility to help those who can not walk the road, but who can add to the meaning of it.

Those are the personal responsibilities I have. Yours seem selfish to me.

Yes, there are those who take advantage, and they are in many different financial/social levels.
I just don't see them as the majority.

Commendable. If more people felt that way, we could dispense with inefficient and destructive government welfare programs altogether and go back to the days of private charity.
 

iguanaman

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Birth control is a medical procedure and a choice, not a right.

And a "choice" can be taken away, so thanks for backing me up.
They have already proven that they want to take away that choice and ban health policies that offer it.
 

EyesWideOpen

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Commendable. If more people felt that way, we could dispense with inefficient and destructive government welfare programs altogether and go back to the days of private charity.

Unfortunately, there never was a day that private charity took care of it. Yes, private charity does a large part, but it in no way covers all of it. That's why the government had to step in and do it.
 

Captain America

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Most everyone realizes, (our disillusioned members notwithstanding,) that Romney's toast.

But the GOP will survive. It may have to kick the aforementioned disillusioned members aside to regain credibility but it WILL survive.

Those who have hijacked it and given it such a bad name will be of no value to the party if it can't win elections. They will be FORCED to separate themselves from this ilk. And after this election, I think they will finally get the message. I look forward to the new and improved GOP. It has a lot of potential. They just have to quit letting the whackos define them.
 

Tigger

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Most everyone realizes, (our disillusioned members notwithstanding,) that Romney's toast.

But the GOP will survive. It may have to kick the aforementioned disillusioned members aside to regain credibility but it WILL survive.

Those who have hijacked it and given it such a bad name will be of no value to the party if it can't win elections. They will be FORCED to separate themselves from this ilk. And after this election, I think they will finally get the message. I look forward to the new and improved GOP. It has a lot of potential. They just have to quit letting the whackos define them.

So basically you're saying exactly what I did..... the Republican Party will end up merging with the Democrats and a new, CONSERVATIVE Party will be formed for those of us with a Soul and actual Principles.
 

Captain America

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So basically you're saying exactly what I did..... the Republican Party will end up merging with the Democrats and a new, CONSERVATIVE Party will be formed for those of us with a Soul and actual Principles.

Whatever Tig. I do wish the <20 or so percent of the whacko rightwing would form their own party. Everyone deserves a voice. Even the peanut gallery. As it is, we have tiny voices screaming demands at the majority that the majority wants no part of. The GOP needs to make these tiny voices insignificant if they have any hope of survival.

But until the GOP rids itself of these whackos, mainstream America will get further and further away from the GOP.
 

Diogenes

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Unfortunately, there never was a day that private charity took care of it. Yes, private charity does a large part, but it in no way covers all of it. That's why the government had to step in and do it.

No, you were claiming it was a personal responsibility, not a societal one.
 

Captain America

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Can I quote you on that in a couple of months? :mrgreen:

Yes sir, you may.

And if I'm wrong, I would expect you to take a moment to gloat just as I took the BRIEF moment to gloat last time when you guys INSISTED that Obama would never be elected to begin with.

When Obama wins again, I assume you have no objection for me to remind you of this conversation as well?
 
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