If Nancy is doing her job and Donald is doing his...

[Mycroft]

Yeah, I did. I notice you didn't quote it.



Where does the Second amendment mention congress? Or is the writing so bad in this sentence that the "it" refers to something entirely out of context?

sigh...

Yes, it says "Congress", but no court will say a President isn't covered also.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Yup. He's a hostage taker willing to shut down the government over new policy. Even a scintilla of a whiff of a win for him on this will only encourage his continued battery.

If there's any value in this thing, it is that Congress has an opportunity to reassert its natural and constitutional role.

That's going to take a lot of spine and zero help from the senate.

That's what everything has distilled itself into at this point, and a lot of people, Trumpers mostly, do not realize that it stopped being "about the wall" a long time ago, a couple of weeks ago at least.

I've said several times that I could be persuaded to support a couple of billion to build more walls. I doubt it would amount to much but okay whatever. But the reason I have dug my heels in, (and I keep repeating it) is:

BECAUSE TRUMP HAD A HISSY FIT AND SHUT DOWN THE GOVERNMENT!

If he wanted to negotiate seriously, he wouldn't have done that.
And I keep repeating that this fight is ABOUT the SHUTDOWN and ONLY about the shutdown and NO ONE on the other side wants to hear it. They keep carping about how I don't support border security.
No...I don't support assholes who shut the government down when the democratic process doesn't go the way they wanted!

So yes, it is going to take a lot of stomach and a lot of spine to hold fast and teach these jerks that they don't get to take hostages when they don't like the way things went. And if we don't put a stop to this crap right here, right now, once and for all, it will continue and it will get worse.

No deals, no negotiations until the government is reopened and it STAYS open.

 

[MrPeanut]

Why are you asking me?

McConnell has already given you his reason.

What do you think of McConnell's reason?

 

[Mycroft]

What do you think of McConnell's reason?

shrug...

It works for him.

I don't care.

 

[holbritter]

I never said they didn't get anything accomplished. If you think I did, please show me where.

What I DID argue was that if this is the most dire problem the country faces right now, why the hell wasn't it more of a priority when they could have done basically whatever they wanted to to solve it?

I would expect that the first two years of a Presidents term that they would focus on what they consider to be the most important issues they see. They may not get it all accomplished, but they could at least give the air that they actually meant what they said. And if they have total control of the government when they get in, yes, I expect even more.

You notice that in the first two years of Obamas first term, he focused on fulfilling his campaign promise of healthcare reform while he had control of the Congress. Agree or disagree with that legislation, you can't say that he wasted that time from a strategic standpoint.

I see your point.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Do you think everything any President is voted in for, is accomplished in the first two years? Did all promises Obama make happen in the first two years.

I keep seeing this little complaint pop up and it makes no sense. It would be a valid complaint if nothing was accomplished, but he has done what he promised so far. Whether someone likes it or not is a different argument.

So when the next President is elected, D or R, you will expect all promises made while a candidate, be accomplished within the first two years, right?

Will you swear on a Bible that you never even ONCE participated in the "Democrats had a supermajority in Congress the first two years of the Obama administration and they didn't get anything done" trope?

 

[marke]

Will the government ever open again?

My thought is Nancy and Chuck are doing exactly what 53 million Americans that voted in the midterms want them to do.

While Donald is doing what 62 million Americans that voted in 2016 wanted him to do.

How can this ever end without either sides feeling as if they got burnt?
I don't know the answer but what I do know is we need to pay the people that are working on our behalf and those that can not get jobs due to their government contract anything else is ridiculous.
What are your thoughts on this?

Democrats have long demonstrated their #1 goal has become preservation of democrat power. This is not about border security. Democrats are for border security also if it helps them get elected. But democrats must stop Trump before 2020, and the wall has become a battleground for democrats seeking to bring down Trump by forcing him to fail to fulfill his campaign promises. If a "few eggs get broken" like they say, as in the government shutdown, or as in something like lying about the Benghazi fiasco, then "What difference does that make?" as long as it benefits the goals of the democrats?

 

[Middle_Ground]

Democrats have long demonstrated their #1 goal has become preservation of democrat power. This is not about border security. Democrats are for border security also if it helps them get elected. But democrats must stop Trump before 2020, and the wall has become a battleground for democrats seeking to bring down Trump by forcing him to fail to fulfill his campaign promises. If a "few eggs get broken" like they say, as in the government shutdown, or as in something like lying about the Benghazi fiasco, then "What difference does that make?" as long as it benefits the goals of the democrats?

Bull****.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

Democrats have long demonstrated their #1 goal has become preservation of democrat power. This is not about border security. Democrats are for border security also if it helps them get elected. But democrats must stop Trump before 2020, and the wall has become a battleground for democrats seeking to bring down Trump by forcing him to fail to fulfill his campaign promises. If a "few eggs get broken" like they say, as in the government shutdown, or as in something like lying about the Benghazi fiasco, then "What difference does that make?" as long as it benefits the goals of the democrats?

The wall doesn't matter. It is your side losing that is important to the resistance. Just like when we kept Bush from passing NAFTA. It has nothing to do with NAFTA but stopping Bush from accomplishing anything. As soon as our man Clinton got into office we pushed NAFTA through. If we need a wall we will build a wall but Trump will not build a wall. That is how the resistance works. It is not what the people want but what the people who fund the candidates and both party want. The rich and powerful that fund both parties want Trump gone. Trump is history. It is just a matter of time.

 

[marke]

The wall doesn't matter. It is your side losing that is important to the resistance. Just like when we kept Bush from passing NAFTA. It has nothing to do with NAFTA but stopping Bush from accomplishing anything. As soon as our man Clinton got into office we pushed NAFTA through. If we need a wall we will build a wall but Trump will not build a wall. That is how the resistance works. It is not what the people want but what the people who fund the candidates and both party want. The rich and powerful that fund both parties want Trump gone. Trump is history. It is just a matter of time.

While people on both sides continue the debate, our border patrol agents are being completely overwhelmed by the volume of illegal crossings they say a wall would stop.

 

[holbritter]

Will you swear on a Bible that you never even ONCE participated in the "Democrats had a supermajority in Congress the first two years of the Obama administration and they didn't get anything done" trope?

Yes, I do. Because yes, they did.

 

[Middle_Ground]

While people on both sides continue the debate, our border patrol agents are being completely overwhelmed by the volume of illegal crossings they say a wall would stop.

I think actually getting paid for all that overwhelming work they're doing is what's on their minds now!

 

[marke]

I think actually getting paid for all that overwhelming work they're doing is what's on their minds now!

I bet. Will the democrats finally start negotiating or will they continue to maintain their stubborn resistance to everything Trump and, by extension, resistance to everything American?