If most of the world agrees putin is committing war crimes, why are we not doing more like actually confronting him with military force?

[bongsaway]

Are you gen X or older?

I am much older, so old I think I'm starting to regress. I'm duck and cover old.

 

[Mycroft]

Why are you surprised about Mycroft's flip-flop?

I haven't flip flopped.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

I'm just finishing my brisket from a few days ago, good luck with yours. It seems to me I keep hearing on here, we should be doing more. So, I go and suggest sending troops and all I hear is oh no, can't do that, nukes. So what do we do, send more thoughts and prayers? I'm sure you got the gist of my blah, blah, blah. Have fun on the bike today.

I'm not sending thoughts and prayers. That would be pretty silly.
I wish Ukraine well.
Thats it.

 

[Cardinal]

I am much older, so old I think I'm starting to regress. I'm duck and cover old.

Okay. If you’re duck-and-cover old then I think you can appreciate that America militarily engaging Russia by itself is not a meaningful distinction from NATO engaging Russia in direct combat.

 

[Tigerace117]

Should one man with nukes be able to hold the whole world hostage? What if he decides to invade poland, does the whole nuke thing just go out the window because poland is a part of nato?

At what point is it time to stop him?

That’s how nukes work. That’s why nobody tried to oppose the US’ invasion of Iraq with force of arms either, despite the howls of outrage.

This is not anything new either.

 

[Perotista]

Should one man with nukes be able to hold the whole world hostage? What if he decides to invade poland, does the whole nuke thing just go out the window because poland is a part of nato?

At what point is it time to stop him?

One always needs to size up militarily your opponent’s capabilities. Russia doesn’t fall into the category of an Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Bosnia, etc. which are countries we’re used to pushing around or going after for war crimes. The Ukraine sits right on Russia’s border. Would the invasion occurred if the U.S. and NATO guaranteed to Russia that the Ukraine wouldn’t be allowed to join that western organization? No one knows since it didn’t happen.

Does Russia feel threaten by that possibility of having the Ukraine as a NATO member. I’d say so. How’d the U.S. feel and or act if Canada or Mexico were about to join a Russian organized and run military defense structure or organization akin to NATO?

I do think realistically with Russia’s militarily capabilities we have done all that’s possible short of direct military intervention which very well could be suicidal. Not only for us, but for the whole world. One needs to weigh the risks to any potential outcome and strategy taken. Where does the risks become too great? How close to that line are we as sanctions and providing military equipment to the Ukraine we are doing? Do we want to risk going over that line? Do we really want a war with Russia? There’s plenty to think about before we just jump. We need to think, we need to assess, we need to weigh our actions with what may happen. Then again, we may have backed Putin into a corner when we didn’t agree or state the Ukraine wouldn’t become a NATO member right on Russia’s doorstep or border. Maybe we didn’t give him any choice? Who knows? I don’t, but I’m not a fan of knee jerk reactions without thought and weighing the consequences.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Ummm...no.

I equate "balls" with courage.

Ok.
Are you considering sprouting yourself some or what?
Whats your point? Is there one?

 

[Mycroft]

Ok.
Are you considering sprouting yourself some or what?
Whats your point? Is there one?

I already made my point in my first post.

And I'm not worried about my balls. I have plenty of courage.

You are dismissed.

 

[Gateman_Wen]

Should one man with nukes be able to hold the whole world hostage? What if he decides to invade poland, does the whole nuke thing just go out the window because poland is a part of nato?

At what point is it time to stop him?

Should he? No.

Can he? Yes.

 

[bongsaway]

Okay. If you’re duck-and-cover old then I think you can appreciate that America militarily engaging Russia by itself is not a meaningful distinction from NATO engaging Russia in direct combat.

I seriously doubt it will come to america acting alone. I'm just throwing out hypotheticals like everyone else.

 

[noonereal]

At what point is it time to stop him?

Way easy question, when he invades a NATO country.

in the meantime we work, without direct conflict, against him, as we are doing. Joe has been brilliant.

 

[Cardinal]

I seriously doubt it will come to america acting alone. I'm just throwing out hypotheticals like everyone else.

I understand that, and I'm addressing that hypothetical. It's not a meaningful distinction, especially when you factor in that Russia certainly doesn't make such distinctions. To them, it's the "West."

 

[noonereal]

Yes if he invaded his Poland the whole nuke thing goes out the window. Poland was made promises and had to make promises when it joined NATO

I think I agree with you but I am not sure what you mean. Can you put this into more definitive and understandable language? Thanks

 

[bongsaway]

One always needs to size up militarily your opponent’s capabilities. Russia doesn’t fall into the category of an Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Bosnia, etc. which are countries we’re used to pushing around or going after for war crimes. The Ukraine sits right on Russia’s border. Would the invasion occurred if the U.S. and NATO guaranteed to Russia that the Ukraine wouldn’t be allowed to join that western organization? No one knows since it didn’t happen.

Does Russia feel threaten by that possibility of having the Ukraine as a NATO member. I’d say so. How’d the U.S. feel and or act if Canada or Mexico were about to join a Russian organized and run military defense structure or organization akin to NATO?

I do think realistically with Russia’s militarily capabilities we have done all that’s possible short of direct military intervention which very well could be suicidal. Not only for us, but for the whole world. One needs to weigh the risks to any potential outcome and strategy taken. Where does the risks become too great? How close to that line are we as sanctions and providing military equipment to the Ukraine we are doing? Do we want to risk going over that line? Do we really want a war with Russia? There’s plenty to think about before we just jump. We need to think, we need to assess, we need to weigh our actions with what may happen. Then again, we may have backed Putin into a corner when we didn’t agree or state the Ukraine wouldn’t become a NATO member right on Russia’s doorstep or border. Maybe we didn’t give him any choice? Who knows? I don’t, but I’m not a fan of knee jerk reactions without thought and weighing the consequences.

My thoughts, if canada or mexico wanted to attach itself to russia, we wouldn't invade either country. Would we like it, no. Putin backed himself into a corner by demanding another free democracy do what he wishes, he wasn't backed into anything. I think the decision as to whether ukraine joins nato is up to ukraine, not russia. Of course we don't want a war with russia but do you see another way of stopping a guy who decides today is the day I think I'll invade ukraine and just swallow that country? What happens when next week he decides to swallow another country and then another? Does the world just sit by awaiting their turn to be swallowed?

 

[noonereal]

I understand that, and I'm addressing that hypothetical. It's not a meaningful distinction, especially when you factor in that Russia certainly doesn't make such distinctions. To them, it's the "West."

No, to Putin it is America, teh USA and the West is simply a part of America.

 

[bongsaway]

I understand that, and I'm addressing that hypothetical. It's not a meaningful distinction, especially when you factor in that Russia certainly doesn't make such distinctions. To them, it's the "West."

Understood. When putin says the west it's like republicans saying the libs. He makes no distinction but we do.

 

[Cardinal]

No, to Putin it is America, teh USA and the West is simply a part of America.

No, I can say for a fact that to Russia we are The West.

 

[Cardinal]

Understood. When putin says the west it's like republicans saying the libs. He makes no distinction but we do.

That point was only to address one component of it.

 

[Chainsawmassacre]

Naive....its is not a matter of balls.Its a matter of process.

Ummmm.....you need a platform for it.

It would be done under the auspices of whom??? Under what agreement signed by which countries?

This is what we have the International courts for. It will take a long time to gain a result but that is their function.

Those with no balls hide behind due process.

 

[noonereal]

No, I can say for a fact that to Russia we are The West.

I agree. My point of distinction is that he sees the USA as the central adversary.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

I think I agree with you but I am not sure what you mean. Can you put this into more definitive and understandable language? Thanks

If a nato country is attacked then it gets defended no matter who the other country is or what they have ie nukes. That is the point of nato. Poland is part of nato, Ukraine is not

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Wasn’t there a security guarantee agreed to when Ukraine surrendered their nuclear weapons back in the mid 1990s?



Edit: Pretty good article from earlier this year, “assurance” and “guarantee” are not similar in any way?

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www.washingtonpost.com

There were promises that Nato would not expand, not part of any treaty mind you but still were made.

Nato was not attacked and should not be used in Ukraine. Individual countries could get involved that are part of Nato but if attacked in response Nato should ignore that as it is a defensive pact and should not be used to support offensive actions

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

My thoughts, if canada or mexico wanted to attach itself to russia, we wouldn't invade either country. Would we like it, no. Putin backed himself into a corner by demanding another free democracy do what he wishes, he wasn't backed into anything. I think the decision as to whether ukraine joins nato is up to ukraine, not russia. Of course we don't want a war with russia but do you see another way of stopping a guy who decides today is the day I think I'll invade ukraine and just swallow that country? What happens when next week he decides to swallow another country and then another? Does the world just sit by awaiting their turn to be swallowed?

If Canada made a military alliance with Russia, the Canadian government would be removed from power in a few months from CIA backed activities.

That is 100% true. Every government in the western hemisphere knows that they can only go so far against US policy before seeing CIA interference

 

[smallvoice]

Because our liberals in charge have never had the stomach for doing what needs to be done.

 

[Tigerace117]

My thoughts, if canada or mexico wanted to attach itself to russia, we wouldn't invade either country. Would we like it, no. Putin backed himself into a corner by demanding another free democracy do what he wishes, he wasn't backed into anything. I think the decision as to whether ukraine joins nato is up to ukraine, not russia. Of course we don't want a war with russia but do you see another way of stopping a guy who decides today is the day I think I'll invade ukraine and just swallow that country? What happens when next week he decides to swallow another country and then another? Does the world just sit by awaiting their turn to be swallowed?

Of course not. We’d just have the CIA try to topple said governments by any means necessary, including sponsoring terrorist groups. Just look at what happened when the Castro dictatorship was established in Cuba.