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If it was an idea in 62 why not in 01 (1 Viewer)

All I saw was more Conspiracy BS. I would like to know what page 3 said. I wonder why its blacked out? The author says “ secrets papers he uncovered” The whole thing was de-classed in 1994, he wrote his book in 2001..:roll:

Also from the same site, Pearl Harbor was a planned attack to get the USA in WWII. By the powers that be in the USA…oooook:cuckoo:
 
cherokee said:
All I saw was more Conspiracy BS. I would like to know what page 3 said. I wonder why its blacked out? The author says “ secrets papers he uncovered” The whole thing was de-classed in 1994, he wrote his book in 2001..:roll:

Also from the same site, Pearl Harbor was a planned attack to get the USA in WWII. By the powers that be in the USA…oooook:cuckoo:


The 3rd page is not blacked out its just a realy bad copy, if you open it in photoshop you can read it.

It amazes me how much more evidence do some ppl need to realise not everthing is like media says it. I am not a conspiracy freak but the amount of info that keeps coming up about the whole 9/11 thing is just geting to the point where i serously ask myself what realy happned.
 
NonAmerican said:
The 3rd page is not blacked out its just a realy bad copy, if you open it in photoshop you can read it.
It amazes me how much more evidence do some ppl need to realise not everthing is like media says it. I am not a conspiracy freak but the amount of info that keeps coming up about the whole 9/11 thing is just geting to the point where i serously ask myself what realy happned.


What proof or info keeps coming up thats not total BS? The fact is Arab men all members of bin laden’s sick twisted group flew planes into American buildings.
 
NonAmerican

Are you making a claim that Pearl Harbor was a conspiracy?

cherokee

Well said.
I like to follow an old principle...
The simplest explanation tends to be the correct explanation.
Occam's Razor

I am continually confounded as to why people want to make things so difficult in life…
Of course that takes us to Buddha and his Four Noble Truth’s…
Life is difficult, and once you accept this fact…life then becomes simple.
 
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Im not sure what happened on 9/11. The fact is that I like the fact that there are more than one explaination out there.
I know that I wouldnt want to live in a place where the government just says "some arab guys attacked us and we should go attack them and reap the rewards". Although that seems to be in essence what our government has been telling us.
Basically the conspiracy theorys are another way of trying not to let our government just herd us like sheep through crap propaganda, and I think such conspiracy theorys should be heard out. Not just be "Nuh-uh"ed at.
In my view there is more evidence out there for the conspiracy theory than against it, so IDK.
"The simplest explaination tends to be the right one" Oh, so disease really is caused by demons? I thought they were caused by complicated viruses. Whats that you say? the sun is really just apollo's chariot? not a mass of burning helium.
 
I believe that direct plotting against your own people is kind of against the social contract. I say we revolt and over throw the government yay! Unfortunately we are not willing to do this at this time cuz it would take too much effort so what do you suggest we do about these fake terror things.

I believe that pearl harbor happened cuz it made too much sense for the japanese not to do it. However 9/11? that attack made no sense so I am inclined to believe that maybe that was rigged.
 
PeaceBrother

What part about 9/11 makes no sense?
What is more complicated?

The President, CIA, and or other agencies plotting and conspiring against America...hiring or training terrorists from a network already dedicated to hating America, having them trust that agenda and doing all of the other conspiracy garbage...

OR

The terrorists just did the same thing minus all of the conspiracy that nobody has been able to conclusivly prove...and in a case this fricking big, that is fricking amazing in itself.

So, OBVIOUSLY, the first one is more complicated...less variables aside, lending credence to the fact that the second is a more simplistic theory and most likely correct.


PeaceBrother

"The simplest explaination tends to be the right one" Oh, so disease really is caused by demons? I thought they were caused by complicated viruses. Whats that you say? the sun is really just apollo's chariot? not a mass of burning helium.



This is a joke, right? Do you really think that you can compare an explanation to a fantasy? Can you compare stories made up to explain something to reality? Science evolves and so does our understanding. Blame Occam...

If I see an bear sleeping on the ground for the first time ever and I ask the guy next to me what it is...he has no idea, because he has never seen one either, but he tells me that some other guy once told him that it is a mouse, yet different from other mice and that it poses no harm... what is simplest? That it is a mouse and I can catch it by grabbing its tail because we do not know better and therefore that is simple and correct or that we are ignorant of the truth and that stories and misunderstanding hold no place whatsoever in this conversation?

The simplest explanation is that the sun is the sun and that we are in orbit around it...you make it sound as if all of the thought and legend of gods is actually very simple when it is not... They made the rising and setting and heat of the sun much more complicated by combining this already confusing topic with gods and all that they entail...

Chew on that for a bit.
 
BodiSatva said:
PeaceBrother

What part about 9/11 makes no sense?
What is more complicated?

The President, CIA, and or other agencies plotting and conspiring against America...hiring or training terrorists from a network already dedicated to hating America, having them trust that agenda and doing all of the other conspiracy garbage...

OR

The terrorists just did the same thing minus all of the conspiracy that nobody has been able to conclusivly prove...and in a case this fricking big, that is fricking amazing in itself.

So, OBVIOUSLY, the first one is more complicated...less variables aside, lending credence to the fact that the second is a more simplistic theory and most likely correct.






This is a joke, right? Do you really think that you can compare an explanation to a fantasy? Can you compare stories made up to explain something to reality? Science evolves and so does our understanding. Blame Occam...

If I see an bear sleeping on the ground for the first time ever and I ask the guy next to me what it is...he has no idea, because he has never seen one either, but he tells me that some other guy once told him that it is a mouse, yet different from other mice and that it poses no harm... what is simplest? That it is a mouse and I can catch it by grabbing its tail because we do not know better and therefore that is simple and correct or that we are ignorant of the truth and that stories and misunderstanding hold no place whatsoever in this conversation?

The simplest explanation is that the sun is the sun and that we are in orbit around it...you make it sound as if all of the thought and legend of gods is actually very simple when it is not... They made the rising and setting and heat of the sun much more complicated by combining this already confusing topic with gods and all that they entail...

Chew on that for a bit.

McChew! done. that was fast. yes that demon and sun thing was a little hyperbole, i was kidding. I was just emphasising that just because a theory is simple or common, doesnt mean it is true. no need to flip out. cuz that was a small point. At least you didnt chew me out for grammar, thats the lamest comeback. But i digress.
"what part of 9/11 makes no sense" I dont know. Lots of stuff. The way the towers fell, the large confiscations of video cameras, the cover ups, the fact that no one at the pentagon actually saw a plane fly in, the fact that lots of government officials bought tons of insurance and what not on airline stock, the fact that days before 9/11 the pentagon had evacuation drills in the rare case of a plane crashing into the building. Lots of little things like that. Im no conspiracy fanatic. I just get the feeling somethings fishy. I am by no means extremely well read on this theory, there are tons of threads about it which would have more well informed people then me. I just find it interesting.
But the main thing is that I see no reason for the terrorists doing it. sure they hate us, but they knew it wouldnt really do that much to us. They knew it would start something they couldnt finish. I dont know Im torn. I guess Im just a moderate on this conspiracy stuff. However the manner in which how fast everybody jumped onto it for political gain is what scared me about it.

As was said in the original post, if it was suggested in 62 why couldnt it have happened for real in 01. Im telling you, the government is getting too much control and is just herding the people like sheep. They control the information, they have secret agencys, and they are monitoring our activities now. How much else are they doing without us knowing. They could pretty much release a video of a nuclear explosion somewhere and say it was Argentina or something and blow the piss out of it. We have no idea wether they were telling the truth, and we would have followed them all the way because they can sway our opinions that much.

Anyway thanks for letting me rant there, Im not really crazy or paranoid. Just concerned that Big Brother is getting closer and closer to reality. The sheer thought that our government could be doing this gives me the jitters. I hope they are not, but I cant be sure. That is whats scary, we just dont know.
 
BodiSatva said:
NonAmerican

Are you making a claim that Pearl Harbor was a conspiracy?

No i am saying that there is proof that there was an idea back in 1962 to preform a series of fake terrorist attacks on america including a commertial plane being blown up over Cuba planed by an US general to make an exuse to start a war on Cuba.

And if that was an idea back in 62` why wouldnt there be a tendency to make it true on 9/11
 
BodiSatva said:
Well said.
I like to follow an old principle...
The simplest explanation tends to be the correct explanation.
Occam's Razor



That has to be the most ignorant and non inteligent principle i have seen so far....
 
cherokee said:
What proof or info keeps coming up thats not total BS? The fact is Arab men all members of bin laden’s sick twisted group flew planes into American buildings.

Yes, they flew planes into buildings. Maybe Arabs did it; maybe they didn't. We will probably never know the true identities of the hijackers. These men were ultra religious - yet they went to strip clubs and ate pork. They went out of their way to flaunt their fake identities in the weeks leading up to the attacks. If you had fake identity - including passport, credit cards, etc. - would you use it every chance you could? Would you use a credit card to pay for a pizza under those circumstances? Would you go out of your way to make it easy for the "authorities" to "figure out" who you are after you're dead?

I wouldn't...

Another fact is that no steel structure has EVER collapsed due to fire. EVER. In our entire recorded history. Except for those three buildings on one day. Those buildings, when they collapsed, exhibited all six signs of a controlled demolition. ALL SIX. Including falling straight down into a tidy pile of debris no longer than 20 feet, and the 'squibs' clearly visible in footage of the collapse.

And let's not forget the HUNDREDS of eyewitnesses that claim to have heard, seen, or felt explosions prior to the collapses.

Yes, there are legitimate questions. Questions that we deserve the answers to. And before you ask, no, I don't have all the answers. That does not detract from my right to ask them.
 
I would like to point out that there is a very well documented book out on the subject (has been since 2003) called "Crossing the Rubicon" by Michael Ruppert. It doesn't deal, perhaps wisely, with the physical evidence. However, I would go so far as to say that he proved that something other than the official version was going on. The most likely explanation, given the evidence he presents, is that a highly placed group in our government learned that the attacks were being planned, contacted the planners, arranged to help them, did so as the attacks were happening, and covered the whole thing up afterward.

Some of the things he points out are:

1) Insider trading in the days leading up to September 11th. Worldwide, it appears that about $2 billion was risked in options trading on the companies whose stock was most likely to be affected by the attacks. The trading patterns were highly irregular--for instance, in the 2 days leading up to 9/11, American Airlines stock showed an increase of 90 times (not 90 percent) the level of put options being written. The only other airline exhibiting a similar pattern was United, the other airline involved in the attacks. Given that both airlines were listed by most major brokerages as good buys, this makes little sense unless those buying the contracts knew about the attacks before hand and knew they would succeed. Unlike with stocks, it's possible to lose all your money in options trading if the stock doesn't go the way you think it will.

Financial institutions and other publicly traded companies with offices in the WTC buildings experienced similar patterns of trading prior to the attacks, whereas in every case, companies not involved in the attacks had no such similar patterns.

Furthermore, the brokerage that handled the largest volume of the trades in the U.S., A.B. Brown, was formerly run by the number 3 guy at the CIA--Buzzy Krongard.

The Kean commission had the power to subpoena records as to who made those trades, at least in the U.S., but did not do so. They did make the statement in the record of their proceedings that they thought it was unimportant.

Given the amount of money risked, it's very unlikely that Al-Qaeda would be responsible for it all.

2) There were at least four investigations prior to 9/11 that would have exposed the attacks before they occurred (or at least had the potential to do so). All of them were stopped by a special agent at FBI HQ named Dave Frasca, who shortly after 9/11 was promoted to Deputy Director of the FBI by Bush. The agents who were doing the investigations had all written letters to then director Mueller, who classified them all. The only one he couldn't do that with (because she published it before sending to him) was written by Colleen Rowley. It has been published in its entirety; I strongly suggest reading it. Here's a link to an edited version:

http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101020603/memo.html

Other whistle-blowers have come forward.

3) Related to point 2, we had extensive infiltration of Al Qaeda prior to 9/11. We had seized their assets on multiple occasions. 3 of the hijackers spent a few months living with an FBI informant who relayed his concerns to FBI HQ. No fewer than 16 foreign countries tried to give us detailed and urgent warnings about the impending attacks, and not only did we ignore them, we rebuffed them. The strangest example seems to have occurred when Malaysian intelligence services tried to give the FBI a taped conversation between two of the hijackers in which they discussed their plans at some length. According to the Malaysian officers (whose names escape me at the moment), they were told that not only were we not interested, further attempts to gather or give us such information might be met with sanctions against their country.

There was an Israeli company called ZIM Israeli Navigation that broke their lease to get out of the WTC towers 2 weeks prior to the attacks. The Israelis claim to have tried on no fewer than 3 separate occasions to warn us that attacks against the towers were imminent. We didn't listen, so they got their people out.

A CIA field officer named Randy Glass repeatedly faxed letters to the office of Porter Goss (at that time, chair of the Senate Select Committee on intelligence, also recently stepped-down Director of Central Intelligence) warning of imminent attacks in New York City involving hijacked airliners.

The list goes on.

4) Speaking of Porter Goss, the head of the Pakistani intelligence agency, the ISI, was at the time a man named Mahmoud Ahmad. General Ahmad wired $100,000 to Mohammed Atta in May of 2001. On the morning of September 11th, 2001, Mahmoud Ahmad was having breakfast with Porter Goss. Later that week, Condi Rice would deny meeting with him shortly before one of her aides, in a separate interview, embarrassingly confirmed that they had met on September 10th. General Ahmad was one of the men tasked with catching Bin Laden at Tora Bora (anyone else think it's odd that even though we had Bin Laden surrounded at Tora Bora, we pulled our troops back and sent the Pakistanis in?). Of course, Bin Laden escaped.

5) It was reported in the Asian Times, as well as in several European Newspapers, that, while attending a low-level economic summit in Moscow, we announced plans to go to war in Afganistan in October of that year. Those newspapers are extant; if we didn't announce it, it was surely the best bit of journalistic prognostication ever.

6) We were conducting no less than 5 separate exercises that day--at least 3 of which were rescheduled in the months prior to 9/11--that give every appearance of being designed to confuse the air traffic controllers. Two of the exercises involved radar inserts simulating hijacked aircraft, and one involved a live-fly exercise simulating a hijacked aircraft.

In the 8 months prior to 9/11, NORAD scrambled military jets to intercept commercial or private flights that strayed from their registered flight plans no fewer than 41 times, with a mean response time of 7 minutes. However, apparently, on 9/11, we were not capable of scrambling jets for well over an hour and a half. The timeline Ruppert presents, based on statements from official sources, is absolutely compelling. He even shows how the Kean Commission creates a misleading timeline from their own published sources (apparently they thought no one would actually check).

There's plenty more in the book. That said, though, there are parts that wax a little paranoid, so I wouldn't say that I agree with everything in the book. Ruppert's story, if it's true (I have no reason to think it isn't), would probably make anyone's teeth itch if they had lived it, so I don't feel inclined to throw the baby out with the bathwater. But a reasonable person should be able to tell when there's genuine meat on the bone (which is about 90% of the book) and when things need to be taken with a grain of salt.

And, all that said, no, I don't get paid for talking the book up. I don't know Mike Ruppert personally or anything. I just think it's a book that everyone ought to read--any reasonable person couldn't read it and come away thinking there was nothing fishy going on.
 
I'm not so sure Occams razor should be used when analyzing complex geo-politics or even just domestic events.


cherokee said:
All I saw was more Conspiracy BS. I would like to know what page 3 said. I wonder why its blacked out? The author says “ secrets papers he uncovered” The whole thing was de-classed in 1994, he wrote his book in 2001..

Also from the same site, Pearl Harbor was a planned attack to get the USA in WWII. By the powers that be in the USA…oooook


What part of an official government document do you think is BS ?

I assume you are aware that we had Japans secret code broken and monitored their communication before they attacked.
 

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