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If Iraqis Vote for USA to leave, do we?

If Iraqis Vote for the American Military To Leave, Should We Go?

  • YES

    Votes: 31 83.8%
  • NO (Please explain)

    Votes: 6 16.2%

  • Total voters
    37

26 X World Champs

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If a vote were taken today in Iraq and the majority of Iraqis voted that they want Americans to leave, should we? If no, how come? After all, if we're building a democracy shouldn't we respect the majority vote?

 

LaMidRighter

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If that's what the Iraqis want, I say yes, it is their country. I don't think they will vote that way yet, but then again we never know.
 

Peralin

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If we were voted out of the country by the people of Iraq (as long as they were voting freely), we would have to leave. If we did not, America would have gained nothing by entering Iraq in the first place. We came to free the people, and if the people that we have freed decide that they don't want our help any more, we would be forced to leave.

If we did not leave after being voted out, we would be keeping the Iraqis from being free. Just because they vote for something that our government does not like does not mean that we should reject their decision.

However, if a small minority of Iraqis vote for us to leave, then we would have to consider why more didn't vote. If we believe that they didn't vote because they were threatened or simply afraid, we may want to hang around a bit longer.
 

FiremanRyan

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its hard to answer this question because it would never happen. of course the majority of Iraqi's would vote to have us leave but if you took a poll of a bunch of little kids asking them if they wanted to eat cookies for dinner every night, im sure theyd say yes too. sadly, the majority of Iraqi's wouldnt be able to have that kind of authority over the issue because they just dont understand the implications of a US pull out.

hypothetically if it did happen and the people of Iraq made it clear that they wanted us to leave, we would have to come to some sort of agreement to pull out a certain amount of forces in the country but leave some to help establish their new government. they have shown that they are close to doing it on their own but just not there yet. the problem is that we should be doing this regardless. either way, none of us know even 5% of what is actually going on over their nor are we military tacticians, so does it really matter what we think either? any parent who would give little kids cookies for dinner just becaue the majority asked for it would be one seriously irresponsible parent.
 
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Simon W. Moon

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FiremanRyan said:
of course the majority of Iraqi's would vote to have us leave but if you took a poll of a bunch of little kids asking them if they wanted to eat cookies for dinner every night, im sure theyd say yes too. sadly, the majority of Iraqi's wouldnt be able to have that kind of authority over the issue because they just dont understand the implications of a US pull out.
You think we're bearing the White Man's Burden for the poor childlike Iraqis who don't know any better.
 
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FiremanRyan

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Simon W. Moon said:
You think we're bearing the White Man's Burden for the poor childlike Iraqis who don't know any better.
how did i know someone would say that :roll:

if you bothered to read the rest of the post...

FiremanRyan said:
either way, none of us know even 5% of what is actually going on over their nor are we military tacticians, so does it really matter what we think either?
we dont have enough information to vote on this subject as well. if you made a vote of Iraqi or American officials, that would be one thing. but to be so naive to say that the common people of either country understand the neccessity of our presense there is irresponsible. though i never said they were childlike, the Iraqi people dont know any better. at least any better than us.
 

Missouri Mule

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26 X World Champs said:
If a vote were taken today in Iraq and the majority of Iraqis voted that they want Americans to leave, should we? If no, how come? After all, if we're building a democracy shouldn't we respect the majority vote?

I don't think we would have any choice. The sooner the better. Let the Iraqis settle their own affairs.
 

FiremanRyan

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Missouri Mule said:
I don't think we would have any choice. The sooner the better. Let the Iraqis settle their own affairs.
if you cared at all about the success of the Iraqi people you wouldnt feel that way. let me ask you this...say a contractor was adding a new addition onto your house. you dont know much about construction but all the banging and drilling is just getting really annoying, so half way through the job, you tell the guy to take off. well now your left with a half-built addition and his tools and supplies laying all over the place. you didnt understand exactly what was involved with building this new addition (ie the noise). would this be an ideal situation?

same goes for the Iraqi people. they may be getting annoyed with the US presense there, but they dont fully understand what its going to take to establish their new government. if they ignorantly voted us to leave because of the "noise" we've been making, they'd be left with nothing but a half-empty house and no way of finishing it.
 

FiremanRyan

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Navy Pride...have you been in the Navy? if you have, you know that many civilians dont know the way the military works and how operations like Iraq are handled. same goes for the Iraqi civilians. how are they supposed to vote and have ulitmate authority on a subject that know very little about? its naive to think they do.

trust me guys, we arent in Iraq still for shits and giggles. their government has yet to be established. they are laying out a constitution as we speak and are preparing to go on with this alone, but it cant be now. even though it would never happen, if they did have this vote, the people would only be harming themselves if they were to send us out. they are ignorant to the matter just as we are and would be the sole cause of their new government's failure. putting the fate of an infantile democracy in the hands of its poorly educated people is suicide.
 

Peralin

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I agree, Ryan. Though I'm sticking to my post above, I also agree that most Americans have no clue what's going on in Iraq. All the information that I get comes from the news, which seems to tell the bad stuff but leave out the good. The truth is, I have no idea how well things are going in Iraq and I definitely can't decide what choices the country should make.
 

Simon W. Moon

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FiremanRyan said:
how did i know someone would say that :roll:
if you bothered to read the rest of the post...
None of the rest of your post changes the fact that you compared the Iraqi people to "bunch of little kids" who lack the understandng, information and impulse control to keep from eating cookies for dinner.

If you knew that what you wrote would come across as something you didn't mean, why did you post it?
FiremanRyan said:
we dont have enough information to vote on this subject as well.
So what? This a poll on an internet MB. Not a damn bit of harm will come of us expressing our opinions no matter how well or poorly informed those opinions are.
FiremanRyan said:
but to be so naive to say that the common people of either country understand the neccessity of our presense there is irresponsible.
As one of the "common people" allow me to point out that this sentiment's pretty elitist of ya.
 
H

HTColeman

Fireman Ryan,

Firstly, Iraq is a country, not our ward. It is not up to us to decide what is best for them. Besides, what makes us sure that we know what is best for them? If they were to vote us out, we should leave.

Furthermore, this is my opinion about setting up their gov't:

Why do Americans have so much pride in the American Revolution? Because we did it ourselves and developed a sense of identity, American Pride.

By setting up their gov't, I don't think they will truly appreciate it the way it should be appreciated. Which are you more proud of the shack you built or the shack someone else built for you?

So, if they don't have proper pride in it, then they wouldn't protect it above all costs, leaving room for another Saddam to come and take it away from them. Then the U.S. will have to go back and do the whole thing over again.

We are simply teaching them to depend on the U.S.
 

faminedynasty

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They will never really support or submit to a government fabricated by a foreign government. It was not a revolution, it was a foreign invasion, and a good portion of Iraqis of all of the religious and ethnic groups are fiercely nationalistic. We had no right to be there in the first place, and therefore if they ask us to leave, we had better. If we don't then it becomes blatant, shameless imperialism.
 

teacher

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Peralin said:
I agree, Ryan. Though I'm sticking to my post above, I also agree that most Americans have no clue what's going on in Iraq. All the information that I get comes from the news, which seems to tell the bad stuff but leave out the good. The truth is, I have no idea how well things are going in Iraq and I definitely can't decide what choices the country should make.
Then maybe you should find someone who has been there recently. Oh my. What a coincidence. Go ask GySgt. View all his posts. There's your answer.
 

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I would be very concerned about doing any "cut and run." I voted no. Mainly because the time line was not defined. If they voted tomorrow I don't think we should leave the day after tomorrow. I do think we should honor their vote and begin a removal of troops.
 

Tim_B

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I'm on the fence with this one. Occupying Iraq gives the country stability, somewhat. Granted there is still terrorism occurring, but if we leave totally, the terrorist will run wild, like a kid in a candy store. On the other hand, I am tired of seeing America's soldiers getting killed in bombings and other forms of violence. If Iraq wants us out, we leave, if the country prefers for us to stay, then we need to complete the mission and ensure the country has stable footing before we start the "Welcome Home" celebrations.

-Tim
 

Navy Pride

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I think we should stay in Iraq until they can handle their own security.........As a Iraqi battalion stands up and American battalion stands down and comes home.....

Make no mistake about it though if the Iraqi government asks to leave we do just that.........
 

cnredd

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Navy Pride said:
I think we should stay in Iraq until they can handle their own security.........As a Iraqi battalion stands up and American battalion stands down and comes home.....

Make no mistake about it though if the Iraqi government asks to leave we do just that.........
Which brings up a VERY serious question...

If the Iraqi Gov't asks us to leave, and we do...then a year later asks us BACK because they now realize they've asked us to leave too early, do we go back?
 

FiremanRyan

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Simon W. Moon said:
None of the rest of your post changes the fact that you compared the Iraqi people to "bunch of little kids" who lack the understandng, information and impulse control to keep from eating cookies for dinner.
jesus, its an analogy not to be taken literally. giving uniformed people the right to vote on the future of their democracy is much like giving a child the ability to vote over whether or not he eats cookies for dinner everynight. the child will vote for the cookies because its what he wants, but he doesnt understand the nutritional side of it. please dont twist what i say. i said Americans are just as uninformed and naive as Iraqi's, did i not? it has nothing to do with a child mentality. what it has to do with is placing power in the hands of uninformed people. it has nothing to do with impulse control but they do lack the understanding, im sorry if you cant look at a situation for what it is and realize that its true.

If you knew that what you wrote would come across as something you didn't mean, why did you post it?
because i knew someone would see it as an opportunity to attack me. but i figured most here would understand the analogy i made.

As one of the "common people" allow me to point out that this sentiment's pretty elitist of ya.
its elitist to think that most Iraqi's and Americans (as well as myself which ive already said) dont understand the process of developing a democracy and handing their government over to them? once again, its fact. any rational person with the welfare of Iraq in mind can see this. sometimes i feel like people disagree just for the fun of argument.
 
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FiremanRyan

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HTColeman said:
Fireman Ryan,

Firstly, Iraq is a country, not our ward. It is not up to us to decide what is best for them. Besides, what makes us sure that we know what is best for them? If they were to vote us out, we should leave.

let me ask you one question. do you actually believe that the Iraqi people know enough about this process to vote for the future of their country? if you had a vote with Iraq's new government and officials THEN i would agree to a pull out. but Joe Iraqi doesnt understand this and will vote yes because they dont want us to have to stay there as much as we dont.


im not againts a vote. what im against is a vote among the people who are just as uniformed as we are. a vote should be made by authorities on the issue from Iraq.
 

Navy Pride

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cnredd said:
Which brings up a VERY serious question...

If the Iraqi Gov't asks us to leave, and we do...then a year later asks us BACK because they now realize they've asked us to leave too early, do we go back?
I don't deal in hypotheticals but I don't think the Iraqis will ask us to leave until they are absolutley sure they can handle the security.......
 

debate_junkie

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Pacridge said:
I would be very concerned about doing any "cut and run." I voted no. Mainly because the time line was not defined. If they voted tomorrow I don't think we should leave the day after tomorrow. I do think we should honor their vote and begin a removal of troops.

If that vote ever took place, timed troop removal, I agree, is the best mode.
 
H

HTColeman

FiremanRyan said:
let me ask you one question. do you actually believe that the Iraqi people know enough about this process to vote for the future of their country? if you had a vote with Iraq's new government and officials THEN i would agree to a pull out. but Joe Iraqi doesnt understand this and will vote yes because they dont want us to have to stay there as much as we dont.

im not againts a vote. what im against is a vote among the people who are just as uniformed as we are. a vote should be made by authorities on the issue from Iraq.
They may not, but experience is the best teacher. Let them know what it feels like to vote and have results according to their vote. As I said before, we are teaching them to be dependent on us. sometimes you have to let people pick themselves up so that they will learn better. (Obviously if we were to pull out, we would still be there to support)
 

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" We came to free the people, and if the people that we have freed decide that they don't want our help any more, we would be forced to leave. "

I have a gold mine in Southern Arkansas that's for sale if you're interrested.
 
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