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If Everyone Had A gun, 4th Of July Parades Would Be safe

Antiwar

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... I'm also intelligent enough to comprehend the fact that guns aren't the problem.

With respect:

Are guns a part of America's gun violence problem?
 

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If the AR's were not readily available so many people would not be dead. Without AR's criminals cannot kill so many or maybe criminals would find some other way to demonstrate their anger.
 

The Old Soul

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Really?

How's that been working out for you?. The country with the most liberal laws on death machines has the highest crime rate, highest incarceration rate, highest recidivism rate and the widest wedge between haves and have-nots.


Meanwhile, countries with the toughest gun laws have the lower crime rates; a distinction which is fading in Canada because an estimated $3 million in weapons are smuggled from the US.

Oh yeah! That's the ticket, Give bad people and mental cases MORE guns so there will be less shooting.

Where the **** do you people get this horseshit?
I think i am on your side - I agree about the gun laws and was pre-refuting the 'guns don't kill people' argument. I see guns more in the 'hammer / nail' argument.
 

Razoo

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If the AR's were not readily available so many people would not be dead. Without AR's criminals cannot kill so many or maybe criminals would find some other way to demonstrate their anger.
as among the solutions in order to help those who cannot help themselves .....

THE USA GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO STOP PUSHING BACK AGAINST THE PEOPLE AS IN WE WANT THESE AR MILITARY STYLE WEAPONS OFF THE STREET AND OFF THE RETAIL SHELVES AND OUT OF GUN SHOWS.
 

The Old Soul

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OH the "I was a gun owner but now" trope. So obviously not true.
I still am a gun owner with several revolvers, a deer rifle, a varmint 22 gallery gun (the wife's actually), some civil-war era black-powder pistols, and a derringer. My grandfather was a gunsmith, and made the deer rifle himself based on the .300 Savage.

I had an 1866 brass frame Winchester 44/40, but sold it when the value on the collector market broke the $5K mark - shoulda kept that one...
 

Winston

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Can you show me where I said that guns are good things?

The world would be better off without guns. But I'm not going to ignore the fact that criminals will always be able to get guns, whether they are illegal or not. By calling for the abolishment of the 2nd amendment or banning guns outright, this puts law abiding citizens in danger because the criminals (those who violate the law, by definition) will still have them.

I've already pointed out that the problem isn't the guns themselves, but the people using them to commit murders and crimes. You chose to ignore that. When a gun decides on its own to just start shooting people without being in the hand of a criminal, then, and only then, would guns be the actual problem.

It occurs to me that getting fully automatic weapons due to them being Class III, is very difficult for ordinary people.

This illustrates two things:

1. Gun control on those fully auto weapons is working. Most the guns used in mass shootings are semi-automatic.

2. You are severely disadvantaged since criminals do not follow these laws. Have the restrictions on fully auto weapons put your life in jeopardy? And would you be safer without it?
 

Fearandloathing

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I think i am on your side - I agree about the gun laws and was pre-refuting the 'guns don't kill people' argument. I see guns more in the 'hammer / nail' argument.


One of the reasons I love Canada (Technically I am a citizen of both Canada & the US) is how free we lead our lives. Not something I have ever taken for granted, but even living in a building with 25 other apartments I never think to lock my door. Neither does anyone else. In 33 years there have been two break-ins, both by ex-boyfriends and long ago. My female friends don't have to be escorted at night and would pound the shit of anyone who suggested such.

While generally peaceful & polite, Homus Canadianum will erupt in extreme violence wreaking havoc across the land with specific causation....that would be losing the Stanley cup and WW2

Here, in BC, more people are treated for bear wounds than bullets and that's only because people forget the number one rule about seeing a bear" Run mother****er! At least faster than another guy.

I have friends on the coast as well as western New York. One of them in northern California lives in a gated community with it's own police force and is afraid to "go into town"

I, and presumably other Canadians, refuse to live like that. We are further than the US from a "police state", yet the crime rate is a fraction of the US. In making that statement I acknowledge also that as many as 100 people get shot every night on TV in the US, movies where everyone is a super marksman able to shoot a thread from 200 yards. & suggest It's only a matter of time before the same lamebrains who still support Trump get the idea they can be a super marksman too, and live for the imagined day when they shoot the gun out of the hand of a bank robber at 100 yards.
 

Callen

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Criminals shoot people using guns, law abiding citizens don't. Why do you hate law abiding citizens?
Law abiding citizens are law abiding citizens until they are not. Likely this animal was law abiding until today.
 

Craig234

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Law abiding citizens are law abiding citizens until they are not. Likely this animal was law abiding until today.
That's not fair to animals. Only cats are known to commit mas shootings.
 

Court Jester

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With a closet of guns myself, I was against gun legislation - but the escalating violence and aggression by gun zealots has pushed me to the other side of that fence.


Feel free to donate your guns to me, and I will give them a very welcome home in my own closet full of guns....the ones which have never harmed anyone or been used in any illegal manner for 50+ years.


Been a while since I've heard any feel-good stories about guns being the saving grace in the hand of a 'good' person, but way too many innocents being gunned down.

Not all the facts are known about the shooter in this incident, but have you seen the photo of "the person of interest" as well as some of the known backround on him through his social media?

The problem is not the gun. The problem is about how a human being becomes this type of monster?


Troll or not, I am all for the abolition of the 2nd, and will vote accordingly;
Well, good luck with that. Just understand that the process for amending the constitution is not simply achieved through some change.org fantasy wish. So, maybe look up how constitutional amendments may happen, and then after seeing the futility of your fantasy wish, maybe come back to the table and we can attempt to discuss the ways we might change things in order understand how and why these monsters do what the do?


I suspect more are joining the troll ranks instead of the arm-the-populace folks.
Trolling doesn't change reality. If you are in favor or a revolution.... well, maybe don't get rid of your closet full of guns too quickly. Or go ahead and take a run at that changing the constitution thing if you feel like that will work....;)
 

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Can you show me where I said that guns are good things?

The world would be better off without guns. But I'm not going to ignore the fact that criminals will always be able to get guns, whether they are illegal or not. By calling for the abolishment of the 2nd amendment or banning guns outright, this puts law abiding citizens in danger because the criminals (those who violate the law, by definition) will still have them.

I've already pointed out that the problem isn't the guns themselves, but the people using them to commit murders and crimes. You chose to ignore that. When a gun decides on its own to just start shooting people without being in the hand of a criminal, then, and only then, would guns be the actual problem.
That thought seems sort of logical, but only until you try to prove it. Reality is that in similar countries that control guns, the chance of a normal person being confronted by a criminal with gun is next to non existant. I've lived and worked in several of them. Guns just aren't given a thought when it comes to personal safety.
 

Callen

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Not all the facts are known about the shooter in this incident, but have you seen the photo of "the person of interest" as will as some of the known backround on him through his social media?

The problem is not the gun. The problem is about how a human being becomes this type of monster
The problem is that a person like him can easily, very easily, get a gun.
 

RedAkston

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The Old Soul

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One of the reasons I love Canada (Technically I am a citizen of both Canada & the US) is how free we lead our lives. Not something I have ever taken for granted, but even living in a building with 25 other apartments I never think to lock my door. Neither does anyone else. In 33 years there have been two break-ins, both by ex-boyfriends and long ago. My female friends don't have to be escorted at night and would pound the shit of anyone who suggested such.

While generally peaceful & polite, Homus Canadianum will erupt in extreme violence wreaking havoc across the land with specific causation....that would be losing the Stanley cup and WW2

Here, in BC, more people are treated for bear wounds than bullets and that's only because people forget the number one rule about seeing a bear" Run mother****er! At least faster than another guy.

I have friends on the coast as well as western New York. One of them in northern California lives in a gated community with it's own police force and is afraid to "go into town"

I, and presumably other Canadians, refuse to live like that. We are further than the US from a "police state", yet the crime rate is a fraction of the US. In making that statement I acknowledge also that as many as 100 people get shot every night on TV in the US, movies where everyone is a super marksman able to shoot a thread from 200 yards. & suggest It's only a matter of time before the same lamebrains who still support Trump get the idea they can be a super marksman too, and live for the imagined day when they shoot the gun out of the hand of a bank robber at 100 yards.
You could be my friend from Whitehorse the way you stand up for and stand behind your fellow Canadians; most everyone is on the same side! Here in Phoenix (and Minneapolis), you never lock up your car in hopes they thieves don't bust your windows or pry the door open to rob you instead - they are getting in either way.

Yes, America (Americans) needs a major reset. Seems there is a lot more pecking-order here than there was 50 years ago. And status money - conspicuous consumption. Americans have come to base many personal attributes on financial ability and 'looks' rather than on things that actually matter such as concern for others and the earth they live on.

But until we actually learn the better way, we have to do our best to keep the crowd under control, and minimize the opportunity and reason so much crime and animosity exists. I think that most of the violence we reek on one another can be contributed to domestic and social disagreements. I worked in the E.R. at HCMC (the county trauma hospital for Minneapolis), and most of the gunshot and stabbing victims were 1st) drunk, and 2nd) wounded in domestic disputes - actual trauma (and sometimes dead) criminals who came in with a police escort were few and far between.

Many times the convenience of a temper, a gun, and some social lubricant during a dispute results in a gunshot wound. Yea, a bullet in the face is a gruesome sight - we need to get over that...
 

RedAkston

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Almost always as a result of the shooting but not before.
Are you sure about that? Think about it before you answer.
 

Callen

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Are you sure about that? Think about it before you answer.
Yes I am sure if that. Most have their weapons legally. I think it is high time for "responsible" gun owners to admit their are lots if irresponsible gun owners and become part of the solution instead of denying the realty. Responsible gun ownership means just that...
 

The Old Soul

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Feel free to donate your guns to me, and I will give them a very welcome home in my own closet full of guns....the ones which have never harmed anyone or been used in any illegal manner for 50+ years.




Not all the facts are known about the shooter in this incident, but have you seen the photo of "the person of interest" as well as some of the known backround on him through his social media?

The problem is not the gun. The problem is about how a human being becomes this type of monster?



Well, good luck with that. Just understand that the process for amending the constitution is not simply achieved through some change.org fantasy wish. So, maybe look up how constitutional amendments may happen, and then after seeing the futility of your fantasy wish, maybe come back to the table and we can attempt to discuss the ways we might change things in order understand how and why these monsters do what the do?



Trolling doesn't change reality. If you are in favor or a revolution.... well, maybe don't get rid of your closet full of guns too quickly. Or go ahead and take a run at that changing the constitution thing if you feel like that will work....;)
Oh you kid...

Without us pragmatists, the world would still be wiping their bottoms with leaves and eating bugs for dinner. I enjoy forward thinking, and looking at where we are going as well as where we've been. The only thing that is constant is change, and I'm all for it.
 

Mr Person

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Ahh, the old "blame the gun and not the criminal" argument. That is what is getting old.

I guess Americans are just uniquely evil then. . . :rolleyes:
 

Captain Adverse

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With a closet of guns myself, I was against gun legislation - but the escalating violence and aggression by gun zealots has pushed me to the other side of that fence. Been a while since I've heard any feel-good stories about guns being the saving grace in the hand of a 'good' person, but way too many innocents being gunned down.

Troll or not, I am all for the abolition of the 2nd, and will vote accordingly; I suspect more are joining the troll ranks instead of the arm-the-populace folks.

First of all, let me state that I don't own a single firearm. That outside of my military service, and period as a police officer, I have not had a gun in my personal possession. I have handled guns owned by friends on occasion, but never owned any. Still don't to this day.

Having said that, I am a firm supporter of the individual right to keep and bear arms.

So, my first question for you is this. Has any single one of that "closet full of guns" ever walked out of that closet on its own and shot a single person?

My second question is, have you even used, or loaned one of them out to someone who then used it for nefarious purposes?

Now unless the answer to either or both of those questions is "yes," then the fact that "gun zealots" seeking to preserve an individual right to keep and bear arms (as you've admitted you've done) seems hardly a good reason to suddenly "give up your rights, and the rights of everyone else."

Nothing is stopping you from getting rid of all your own guns, as there is no "obligation" to keep and bear arms. It is simply your right to do so.

Meanwhile, everyone else who has not been legally restricted due to criminal activity, mental disability, or juvenile status should retain said rights.
 

RedAkston

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Yes I am sure if that. Most have their weapons legally. I think it is high time for "responsible" gun owners to admit their are lots if irresponsible gun owners and become part of the solution. Instead of denying the realty.
You might want to do some research. Most of these mass shooters either obtain their guns illegally or there is some sort of breakdown in the background check and they weren't supposed to be able to purchase the guns legally in the first place.

So answer me this - what percentage of mass shooters are NRA members? I mean, the NRA is the "ultimate villain" according to so many who want to ban guns, right?
 
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