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If Bush gets tough on illegals, ..democrats will flip flop

Stu Ghatze

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I can see it already. Democrats crying that Bush has not done much about the illegal alien problem, & controling our border.

Yet....if Bush really does get more serious about it, ..you can bet your bottom dollar it will be the democratic party that will fight him tooth, & nail on it.

Bush WILL be characterized once again, ..as being intolerant, racist, & a hater as in much the same fashion that most republican presidents have that ever addressed this topic in the past.;)
 
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Stu Ghatze said:
I can see it already. Democrats crying that Bush has not done much about the illegal alien problem, & controling our border.

Yet....if Bush really does get more serious about it, ..you can bet your bottom dollar it will be the democratic party that will fight him tooth, & nail on it.

Bush WILL be characterized once again, ..as being intolerant, racist, & a hater as in much the same fashion that most republican presidents have that ever addressed this topic in the past.;)
True enough. I have already written about this in another thread, but the Bush bashing crowd will not be happy about this, even though it is what they themselves have been hollering for. I can hear it now. "It's too little too late." "Bush is just trying to rally the base." "He's trying to rescue his poll numbers." It will be interesting, won't it? Who will be the first liberal to give credit where it is due? I'm not holding my breath.
 

Calm2Chaos

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Stu Ghatze said:
I can see it already. Democrats crying that Bush has not done much about the illegal alien problem, & controling our border.

Yet....if Bush really does get more serious about it, ..you can bet your bottom dollar it will be the democratic party that will fight him tooth, & nail on it.

Bush WILL be characterized once again, ..as being intolerant, racist, & a hater as in much the same fashion that most republican presidents have that ever addressed this topic in the past.;)
They will flip flop no matter what his position. The Dems don't have a plan other then to be the polar oposite of whatever the president says. That seems to be there strategy for virtually everything nowadays.
 

Iriemon

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Calm2Chaos said:
They will flip flop no matter what his position. The Dems don't have a plan other then to be the polar oposite of whatever the president says. That seems to be there strategy for virtually everything nowadays.
What was the Dems position in immigration? Let in hordes of cheap foreign labor to undercut the wages that Americans can earn? I don't recall that being their position.
 

shuamort

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Bush has been in office for almost 5 full years now. What has he actually done to stop illegal immigrants?

Also, let's be fair to the dems. Let's outline what their plan is and then see if they deviate from it. Here was their plan in 2004:

Both Lieberman and Gephardt have sponsored bills that would allow all illegal immigrants in the country to earn legalization, if they have been in the country working for five years and pass a background check.

That "earned legalization" approached is also endorsed by the front-runner in the Democratic president race, Howard Dean.

"My view is if you've lived here for a significant period of time -- whether you're undocumented or documented -- and you have contributed to your community, you have never been arrested or gone to jail or any of that stuff, and you've paid your taxes and worked hard, that you ought to have a path to earn legalization of citizenship and so forth," Dean said at an appearance in Iowa.

Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle, D-South Dakota, said he "absolutely" supported the goal of legalizing undocumented workers.
Here was Bush's plan in 2004:
KEY POINTS OF THE BUSH IMMIGRATION PROPOSAL


• Workers in the United States illegally join a temporary labor program.

• Those now-illegal immigrants then can apply for permanent residence but get no preferential consideration.

• Employers hiring these workers must show they cannot find U.S. laborers to fill their jobs.

• These undocumented workers get guaranteed wage and employment rights.

• These workers receive a temporary three-year visa, renewable once. They are expected to return to their countries of birth once their visas expire.

• Congress is urged to increase current annual limit of 140,000 "Green Cards.".

• The Department of Homeland Security is to administer the program.
More info:
Objections to Bush Immigration Proposals
To cries of protest from both Democrats and Republicans, President Bush has declared immigration reform to be a primary domestic goal during his second term in office. This issue may emerge as the most contentious of his domestic agenda.

Many Democrats object that the President's plan is too little reform, as the key points of his immigration reform proposals deal only with immigrants as workers, and don't provide plans for their lives and welfare while in the US, or a path for legalization or citizenship.

Many Democrats and Republicans argue that the President's immigration reform ideas should be scaled back, as they create undue burdens on taxpayer-funded public schools, healthcare systems and the like.
Bush's new plan has the Republican party divided too:
However, the Republican Party itself is split on the issue.

Senator John Kyl favours sending immigrants home before they can apply for a worker programme. Senator John McCain favours the provision of six-year visas while illegal immigrants apply for Green Cards.

Senator McCain's proposals were put forward jointly with Democratic Senator Ted Kennedy.
And more:
The renewed focus on immigration follows a sharp drop in the president's approval rating, and recent polls indicate most of his fellow Republicans oppose his handling of the issue.

Many of his conservative allies have criticized the guest-worker program, which they say would allow illegal immigrants to obtain legal status. Many Democrats have also opposed the proposal, which Bush first outlined in January 2004.

Rep. Tom Tancredo, an outspoken advocate of a tough stance on illegal immigration, said Bush's credibility "is on the line, big-time" over the issue.

"People even in his own party are worried about whether or not you can really take to the bank what he tells you," said the Colorado Republican. "So the president has not only got to actually say the right stuff, he's got to do the right stuff. We've got to see action on top of words."

But one GOP analyst has warned that Bush must strike a delicate balance by talking tough on border security without alienating swing voters, women and Hispanics -- the latter a group Republicans have tried to court since Bush's first presidential campaign.

"Republicans are talking about solutions rather than just making a lot of noise," said Leslie Sanchez, the former director of Hispanic communications for the Republican National Committee. "But with those solutions come a lot of things that can look like immigrant-bashing."
And in case you think I'm just quoting from CNN, here's a Newsmax article about it:
And it spotlighted perhaps the most volatile dividing line between President Bush and his party's conservative base.

Syndicated columnist Michelle Malkin warned that the president’s plan allowing illegal aliens to apply for jobs Americans supposedly don’t want is “dangerous” in that it undermines national security and “provides more opportunity for Islamic terrorists to insert themselves into the American mainstream.”
To which Schlafly, who is from Missouri, added it was not true that Americans won’t take menial jobs. Illegals, she said, gravitate to a few states. In most of heartland America, she said, “the peaches are picked, the sheets are laundered, and the beds get made.”
America, in her view, cannot survive as one nation by serving as “the hiring hall for the world.” Meanwhile, she complained, “corporations have laid off thousands of [American] engineers.”

Malkin, herself the daughter of Philippine immigrants and author of the best seller “Invasion,” mocked the term “undocumented immigrants” as a politically correct weasel word.

Malkin also took issue with President Bush’s declaration that his proposal unveiled last month is not an “amnesty” plan. She pointed out that the word “amnesty” is derived from “amnesia,” i.e., to forget. “Amnesty” for lawbreakers does not depend on a Clinton-style debate “on what the meaning of ‘is’ is.”
So, as Stu is attempting to pin down the dems and blame them for opposing whatever Bush proposes, I don't see the reps coming to any sort of consensus either.
 

Calm2Chaos

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Iriemon said:
What was the Dems position in immigration? Let in hordes of cheap foreign labor to undercut the wages that Americans can earn? I don't recall that being their position.
They had no position. They have to wait until the president picks a side so they can grab the opposite. So essentially the president dictates there position for them
 
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