• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

If Biden chooses to fight Russia over ukraine, we already know who the winner is....

DarkWizard12

Sir Poop A lot
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
14,490
Reaction score
3,019
Location
Beirut
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Communist
and it's China.

China will be the winner of the great Russian-American war.

and for what? over some bullshit provinces that not even kyiv cares about, and democrats can't even point out on a map.

China is going to eat our lunch, and russia will have no ability to stop their coming intransgience into resource-rich siberia. We're done for but.....of course, democrats like china anyway, so what do they care?

and to think it could have gone so differently. With trump, we could have pulled putin away from China.

American + Russia, we could have beat back china's rise.

Now, we have to hope that Biden is senile enough to, for some reason, go against his handlers and the rest of his party to deal honestly with Putin.

Only then can we ever hope to contain china.

if we fail at that, you might as well put on your CCP hat boys, we're all china now!
 

tacomancer

Christian Capitalist Social Democrat
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
61,742
Reaction score
43,110
Location
NE Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
You are actually correct about something for once.
 

VySky

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 12, 2019
Messages
22,719
Reaction score
8,051
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
and it's China.

China will be the winner of the great Russian-American war.

and for what? over some bullshit provinces that not even kyiv cares about, and democrats can't even point out on a map.

China is going to eat our lunch, and russia will have no ability to stop their coming intransgience into resource-rich siberia. We're done for but.....of course, democrats like china anyway, so what do they care?

and to think it could have gone so differently. With trump, we could have pulled putin away from China.

American + Russia, we could have beat back china's rise.

Now, we have to hope that Biden is senile enough to, for some reason, go against his handlers and the rest of his party to deal honestly with Putin.

Only then can we ever hope to contain china.

if we fail at that, you might as well put on your CCP hat boys, we're all china now!
He can’t even get his sanction stories right. Biden is Bush league.
 

switt

...
DP Veteran
Joined
May 7, 2020
Messages
1,968
Reaction score
1,417
Location
KY
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
and it's China.

China will be the winner of the great Russian-American war.

and for what? over some bullshit provinces that not even kyiv cares about, and democrats can't even point out on a map.

China is going to eat our lunch, and russia will have no ability to stop their coming intransgience into resource-rich siberia. We're done for but.....of course, democrats like china anyway, so what do they care?

and to think it could have gone so differently. With trump, we could have pulled putin away from China.

American + Russia, we could have beat back china's rise.

Now, we have to hope that Biden is senile enough to, for some reason, go against his handlers and the rest of his party to deal honestly with Putin.

Only then can we ever hope to contain china.

if we fail at that, you might as well put on your CCP hat boys, we're all china now!
Is that you Tucker, Don?
 

DarkWizard12

Sir Poop A lot
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
14,490
Reaction score
3,019
Location
Beirut
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Communist
Is that you Tucker, Don?
just someone who sees reality!

get your hats boys, this is china's century now! If you can't beat em...join em!

still on sale!

51weN5IIB-L._AC_UX385_.jpg
 

MamboDervish

Looking Forward
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
10,751
Reaction score
10,301
Location
The Big Apple
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Now, we have to hope that Biden is senile enough to, for some reason, go against his handlers and the rest of his party to deal honestly with Putin.
Biden isn't senile, and Biden doesn't have any handlers.

You're confused because, unlike Trump, Biden has trusted advisors - experts whose council he heeds. Trump never listened to anyone who wasn't telling him exactly what he already wanted to hear. Unlike Biden, they couldn't even get Trump to read the Presidents Daily Intelligence Briefing unless they inserted his name at least once in every paragraph or two.
 

j brown's body

CHRISTIAN-ish
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
36,467
Reaction score
28,692
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
It's China and Russia, like Germany and Japan 90 years ago. You can't ignore either one. Putin isn't just about Ukraine. Tough times for democracies.
 

DarkWizard12

Sir Poop A lot
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
14,490
Reaction score
3,019
Location
Beirut
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Communist
Biden isn't senile, and Biden doesn't have any handlers.

You're confused because, unlike Trump, Biden has trusted advisors - experts whose council he heeds. Trump never listened to anyone who wasn't telling him exactly what he already wanted to hear. Unlike Biden, they couldn't even get Trump to read the Presidents Daily Intelligence Briefing unless they inserted his name at least once in every paragraph or two.
are these, by chance, the same experts who told us unfettered trade with china was a good idea, that businesses need cheap labour from mexico to increase profits, and that Iraq had WMD's?
 

RabidAlpaca

Engineer
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2012
Messages
24,406
Reaction score
33,321
Location
American Refugee in Europe
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
You guys are ridiculous. At no point did Biden ever suggest getting into a war over Ukraine. He simply warned the world that Russia was about to attack, which was correct, and the Trump cult really tried to blame him for provoking Russia. Pathetic and transparent.

are these, by chance, the same experts who told us unfettered trade with china was a good idea, that businesses need cheap labour from mexico to increase profits, and that Iraq had WMD's?
Has Biden's cabinet been in power for decades, controlling the US economy and making corporations move their production overseas to make more money? No, that's not the case. Your attempt to blame Biden for decades of anti-worker policies is silly.
 

DarkWizard12

Sir Poop A lot
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
14,490
Reaction score
3,019
Location
Beirut
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Communist
It's China and Russia, like Germany and Japan 90 years ago. You can't ignore either one. Putin isn't just about Ukraine. Tough times for democracies.
There's bad blood between China and Russia, and we do nothing to exploit that. Instead, we force them closer together because we don't know what the **** we're doing.
 

MamboDervish

Looking Forward
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
10,751
Reaction score
10,301
Location
The Big Apple
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
are these, by chance, the same experts who told us unfettered trade with china was a good idea, that businesses need cheap labour from mexico to increase profits, and that Iraq had WMD's?
Off hand I'd say probably not, as Biden, the Democrat, is much less likely than a Republican to take advice from laissez faire economists, or Neo-Conmen.
 

DarkWizard12

Sir Poop A lot
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
14,490
Reaction score
3,019
Location
Beirut
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Communist
Has Biden's cabinet been in power for decades, controlling the US economy and making corporations move their production overseas to make more money? No, that's not the case.
What do you mean that's not the case? There's been changes of power for decades between party establishments, but nearly all of them are educated and trained by the same people that came before them.
 

DarkWizard12

Sir Poop A lot
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
14,490
Reaction score
3,019
Location
Beirut
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Communist
Off hand I'd say probably not, as Biden, the Democrat, is much less likely than a Republican to take advice from laissez faire economists, or Neo-Conmen.
well, many neocons were welcome by the democrat party in recent years, and fully integrated.

and the democrat party seems insistent on doing nothing about china, while it was trump that ignored experts and slapped tariffs on the chinese.
 

RabidAlpaca

Engineer
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2012
Messages
24,406
Reaction score
33,321
Location
American Refugee in Europe
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
What do you mean that's not the case? There's been changes of power for decades between party establishments, but nearly all of them are educated and trained by the same people that came before them.
How is what I said hard to understand? You asked if Biden's advisors were the same people who decided for each American corporation that they should move their production overseas, and I stated clearly that's not the case. If you have evidence these are the same people, present it.

What should the government do, force corporations to keep their businesses in America? Who forced them to leave in the first place? They did it because it maximized their profits. "Companies can do whatever the **** they want" is the Republican mantra, so if you're so opposed to that why do you keep voting for them?

well, many neocons were welcome by the democrat party in recent years, and fully integrated.

and the democrat party seems insistent on doing nothing about china, while it was trump that ignored experts and slapped tariffs on the chinese.
And the tariffs did nothing but hurt American workers and businesses.
 

bongsaway

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 16, 2019
Messages
38,304
Reaction score
25,277
Location
Flori-duh
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
and it's China.

China will be the winner of the great Russian-American war.

and for what? over some bullshit provinces that not even kyiv cares about, and democrats can't even point out on a map.

China is going to eat our lunch, and russia will have no ability to stop their coming intransgience into resource-rich siberia. We're done for but.....of course, democrats like china anyway, so what do they care?

and to think it could have gone so differently. With trump, we could have pulled putin away from China.

American + Russia, we could have beat back china's rise.

Now, we have to hope that Biden is senile enough to, for some reason, go against his handlers and the rest of his party to deal honestly with Putin.

Only then can we ever hope to contain china.

if we fail at that, you might as well put on your CCP hat boys, we're all china now!
Deal honestly with putin? China's troops aren't surrounding the ukraine.
 

bongsaway

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 16, 2019
Messages
38,304
Reaction score
25,277
Location
Flori-duh
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
are these, by chance, the same experts who told us unfettered trade with china was a good idea, that businesses need cheap labour from mexico to increase profits, and that Iraq had WMD's?
Trade with china was nixon's doing and reagan started the rush for cheap labor and W started the war with Iraq. You were saying?
 

MamboDervish

Looking Forward
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
10,751
Reaction score
10,301
Location
The Big Apple
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
. . . . . while it was trump that ignored experts and slapped tariffs on the chinese.
Indeed. The operative word was "slapped". Alas, we all got slapped in the process, too.


Executive Summary
  • During his time in office, former President Trump unilaterally imposed numerous new tariffs on steel, aluminum, and a variety of imports, creating upward pressure on prices in the United States.
  • While in office, President Biden has so far only replaced the tariffs on European steel and aluminum with a tariff-rate quota system, but has kept in place the tariffs for most other countries, including China.
  • Based on 2020 import levels, these tariffs currently impact over $400 billion of imports and exports and increase consumer costs by roughly $51 billion annually.
  • The tariffs are having a notable impact on trade levels, decreasing both imports and exports, which reduces consumers’ options and further increases prices in the United States.
  • Because the COVID-19 pandemic decreased global trade in 2020, the tariffs had a smaller impact compared to 2019 levels.
 

maxparrish

Conservatarian
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 28, 2011
Messages
11,977
Reaction score
7,385
Location
SF Bay Area
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
and it's China.

China will be the winner of the great Russian-American war.

and for what? over some bullshit provinces that not even kyiv cares about, and democrats can't even point out on a map.

China is going to eat our lunch, and russia will have no ability to stop their coming intransgience into resource-rich siberia. We're done for but.....of course, democrats like china anyway, so what do they care?

and to think it could have gone so differently. With trump, we could have pulled putin away from China.

American + Russia, we could have beat back china's rise.

Now, we have to hope that Biden is senile enough to, for some reason, go against his handlers and the rest of his party to deal honestly with Putin.

Only then can we ever hope to contain china.

if we fail at that, you might as well put on your CCP hat boys, we're all china now!

First, there won't be a Russian-American war. There will be, at best (or worst), a US/NATO supported war of insurgency, aka Europe's "Afghanistan".

Second, China is not the winner, but it might just be the savior of the Russian economy by helping the Russians circumvent sanctions and launder transactions.

Third, China has had no current interest in Siberia, its only historic dispute being their exact border with Russia...a dispute no longer important. They do have a great deal of interest in seizing Tiawan, the Spratley Islands, and a huge portion international water as theirs...and settling scores with India.

Four, Trump rightly provided strong focus on Chinese trade practices and theft of western technology. So much so the Biden administration hasn't attempted to move away from that. However, there is little reason to suppose that Trump would have done any better than Biden on Russia. Trump was very resistant to NATO, very reluctant to deal with Russia as a threat, and had a "thing" about Ukraine and Biden. Trump is a man driven by moods, impulsiveness, and gut feelings...someone who finds coherency in policy to be a distraction.

In short, Trump has NO strategic vision and mostly sat on his ass for four years regarding Ukraine other than to fish it for dirt.

Finally, I am as strident a conservative Biden critic as anyone else on the right. However, Trump was largely a bull who carried around his own China shop. Biden, or at least his support staff and appointments, have surprised many by their strategy and competence in dealing with Putin. Compared to their handling of the withdrawal from Afghanistan its as if they had a brain transplant.

I wish the Biden administration were a little greater risk takers and taken additional measures (e.g. 30-60 days ago redeploying US earmarked NATO brigades to Europe) BUT as a whole I am impressed with the administrations savvy.

When it came to Russia, Trump was a moron.
 

Monica33

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 10, 2021
Messages
2,535
Reaction score
419
Location
U.K.
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
You are actually correct about something for once.
Except that China has already agreed to share the spoils with Russia , providing China stops trying to' take over' across the border Russian territory and plays honest over Mongolia .

Of course China will work closely with Russia when between them they can grab a falling Empire .
 
Top Bottom