If Bernie Pulls Hillary Way To The Left Does That Help Her or Hurt Her?

[Russell797]

I'm not so sure you are right that that is where the bulk of the electorate resides. Sure, there are many on the extremes but there are also many in the middle. The trouble is the extremes control the parties and the moderates are often only left with the choice of which extreme to vote for.

Republicans who are not far right wing are called RINO. The moderate Mitt Romney lost because he was not deemed conservative enough. The wave of Tea Party Republicans in Congress represents a sharp move to the right within the Republican base.

The majority of Democrat voters support the EPA and climate change mitigation, gun rights legislation, gay marriage, the Affordable Care Act etc.....in extremely sharp contrast to conservative Republicans and Libertarians.

These are battle ground issues which represent entirely contrasting ideological world views. Either you support these issues or you don't. There is no middle ground to be had.

 

[Russell797]

And I'd add: Extreme bipartisanship is fostered & propagated by the parties (that like it that way, since it empowers them).

It empowers them because that's where the votes are. People who claim to be in the middle just are not passionate on the issues.

 

[Moderate Right]

Republicans who are not far right wing are called RINO. The moderate Mitt Romney lost because he was not deemed conservative enough. The wave of Tea Party Republicans in Congress represents a sharp move to the right within the Republican base.

The majority of Democrat voters support the EPA and climate change mitigation, gun rights legislation, gay marriage, the Affordable Care Act etc.....in extremely sharp contrast to conservative Republicans and Libertarians.

These are battle ground issues which represent entirely contrasting ideological world views. Either you support these issues or you don't. There is no middle ground to be had.

There are way more RINO's than there are far right wing. A whole lot more. That's why the voters voted for both McCain and Romney and even Trump to some extent. Even though Trump goes off the deep end on some issues, he is not far right overall. And, the Tea Party has been getting smaller, not larger. It is far right propaganda that Romney (and McCain) lost because he (they) wasn't (weren't) conservative enough. In the end, Romney lost because Independents decided he was a one percenter who could not connect with the average Joe and McCain lost because he had the economy and GWB hanging around his neck. Neither lost because they were not conservative enough. That's what the far right wants you to believe so that they can further their far right agenda. The only reason there is no middle ground to be had is because both parties have purged their own moderates. Many moderates left both parties because they didn't want to be a part of the dysfunction anymore.

 

[Chomsky]

It empowers them because that's where the votes are. People who claim to be in the middle just are not passionate on the issues.

I see it as a much more symbiotic relationship.

The parties foster this divisiveness, not just reflect it.

1/3 of the GOP voters didn't wake-up one day deciding the President is: "A non-citizen Muslim from Kenya operating as an illegal President" - without a little help! :doh

Nor did they wake-up from a dream one morning, thinking the President is implementing "death panels"!

 

[iguanaman]

Republicans who are not far right wing are called RINO. The moderate Mitt Romney lost because he was not deemed conservative enough. The wave of Tea Party Republicans in Congress represents a sharp move to the right within the Republican base.

The majority of Democrat voters support the EPA and climate change mitigation, gun rights legislation, gay marriage, the Affordable Care Act etc.....in extremely sharp contrast to conservative Republicans and Libertarians.

These are battle ground issues which represent entirely contrasting ideological world views. Either you support these issues or you don't. There is no middle ground to be had.

Actually the things you mentioned are the "middle ground". You just can't see it because you are so far from the middle. Someone who sees clean air and water as a left wing plot is not anywhere near the mainstream. It is not completely your fault, the Tea party was created by the Koch Bros. to maintain their tax cuts and you thought it was real when it was just meant to screw things up so nothing could get done. That left you guys lost in the wilderness without a clue and then someone like Trump comes along to "save" you. It is just another dead end.

 

[Russell797]

There are way more RINO's than there are far right wing. A whole lot more. That's why the voters voted for both McCain and Romney and even Trump to some extent. Even though Trump goes off the deep end on some issues, he is not far right overall. And, the Tea Party has been getting smaller, not larger. It is far right propaganda that Romney (and McCain) lost because he (they) wasn't (weren't) conservative enough. In the end, Romney lost because Independents decided he was a one percenter who could not connect with the average Joe and McCain lost because he had the economy and GWB hanging around his neck. Neither lost because they were not conservative enough. That's what the far right wants you to believe so that they can further their far right agenda. The only reason there is no middle ground to be had is because both parties have purged their own moderates. Many moderates left both parties because they didn't want to be a part of the dysfunction anymore.

Maybe the electorate has purged the moderates. People who take a stand on the issues they care deeply about are not going to be willing to compromise. Compromise is analogous to half-assed purpose and action. If something is to be done then do it right, not in some compromised fashion which limits effectiveness just to placate the opposition.

 

[Russell797]

Actually the things you mentioned are the "middle ground". You just can't see it because you are so far from the middle. Someone who sees clean air and water as a left wing plot is not anywhere near the mainstream. It is not completely your fault, the Tea party was created by the Koch Bros. to maintain their tax cuts and you thought it was real when it was just meant to screw things up so nothing could get done. That left you guys lost in the wilderness without a clue and then someone like Trump comes along to "save" you. It is just another dead end.

I think maybe you confuse me for a conservative. I am a liberal with a scientific background. Environmental issues are of great importance to me. Trump, conservative Republicans and Libertarians oppose all that I stand for. They seek to weaken the EPA, under fund the NASA Earth monitoring program and attack scientists. I would never vote for anyone affiliated with a group agenda to do such things.

 

[Moderate Right]

Maybe the electorate has purged the moderates. People who take a stand on the issues they care deeply about are not going to be willing to compromise. Compromise is analogous to half-assed purpose and action. If something is to be done then do it right, not in some compromised fashion which limits effectiveness just to placate the opposition.

No offense but, you are talking about yourself. You believe you shouldn't compromise on your liberal values and you listen to the loud mouths on the far right and you just assume that there is no middle ground. There is middle ground. People don't have to be extremists and most aren't. But those in the middle are not loud mouths and maybe that's what our problem is.

 

[washunut]

Just curious if Bernie is successful at pulling Hillary way to the left at the convention does that help her or hurt her in the general election against Trump?

I guess it depends on if you believe anything she says.

 

[iguanaman]

I think maybe you confuse me for a conservative. I am a liberal with a scientific background. Environmental issues are of great importance to me. Trump, conservative Republicans and Libertarians oppose all that I stand for. They seek to weaken the EPA, under fund the NASA Earth monitoring program and attack scientists. I would never vote for anyone affiliated with a group agenda to do such things.

I was taking about the no middle ground comment and didn't even look at you lean. Sorry. Don't you think what I said makes sense? The idea that all those things are left wing plots is meant to confuse the voters and cause a stalemate. Who doesn't believe in and want clean air and water and a safe environment for their children?

 

[iguanaman]

I guess it depends on if you believe anything she says.

Right. Some believe she would veto progressive bills because she is a "closet Republican" and "owned" by Wall Street.. I find that pretty ridiculous but it persists.

 

[washunut]

Right. Some believe she would veto progressive bills because she is a "closet Republican" and "owned" by Wall Street.. I find that pretty ridiculous but it persists.

I don't think she is a closet Republican. She isn't owned by Wall Street, but being a senator from NY must be close to many. Remember that a large portion of the biggest bank CEOs are Democrats. JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs to name a few.

 

[SDET]

As long as the free stuff crowd get their free stuff, they don't care if they get it from Crazy Bernie or Crooked Hillary.

 

[zimmer]

Just curious if Bernie is successful at pulling Hillary way to the left at the convention does that help her or hurt her in the general election against Trump?

If she goes further Left than she and Bernie already are, she's in jeopardy of falling off the flat plane she calls earth.

 

[SDET]

Hillary is a left of center hawk. In addition, she is predatory in the sense that her focus is on defeating all rivals and rewarding friends be they in politics, business, or academia. She is not "left" or "right". She is "ME, MY, and MINE".

Not so scary until you realize she has the tools to do it. For example, the Clinton Foundation for a few million now will regain the tools to disadvantage a company in a bid in a Saudi oilfield in order to help a "donor". And in the international arena, it will be a crime without fingerprints.

This is not a "left" vs "right" issue.

Does the US have any military secrets left after Bill sold them the the Chinese Communists? I think she will sell any aspect of our country that she can and launder the money to her benefit.

 

[iguanaman]

I don't think she is a closet Republican. She isn't owned by Wall Street, but being a senator from NY must be close to many. Remember that a large portion of the biggest bank CEOs are Democrats. JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs to name a few.

So that means she will veto all the progressive bills that are sent to her desk? That is what I find ludicrous. What is that saying about keeping your "enemies closer"?
It is apparent that some of Sanders people believe Hillary is all that is in the way of a "progressive utopia" and are mad as hell about it. That is childish and naive to me. They have no clue who their enemies even are.

 

[SDET]

So that means she will veto all the progressive bills that are sent to her desk? That is what I find ludicrous. What is that saying about keeping your "enemies closer"?
It is apparent that some of Sanders people believe Hillary is all that is in the way of a "progressive utopia" and are mad as hell about it. That is childish and naive to me.

Not all, of course. However Clinton will come just short of putting her vetoes up on Ebay.

 

[radcen]

There are way more RINO's than there are far right wing. A whole lot more. That's why the voters voted for both McCain and Romney and even Trump to some extent. Even though Trump goes off the deep end on some issues, he is not far right overall. And, the Tea Party has been getting smaller, not larger. It is far right propaganda that Romney (and McCain) lost because he (they) wasn't (weren't) conservative enough. In the end, Romney lost because Independents decided he was a one percenter who could not connect with the average Joe and McCain lost because he had the economy and GWB hanging around his neck. Neither lost because they were not conservative enough. That's what the far right wants you to believe so that they can further their far right agenda. The only reason there is no middle ground to be had is because both parties have purged their own moderates. Many moderates left both parties because they didn't want to be a part of the dysfunction anymore.

Maybe the electorate has purged the moderates. People who take a stand on the issues they care deeply about are not going to be willing to compromise. Compromise is analogous to half-assed purpose and action. If something is to be done then do it right, not in some compromised fashion which limits effectiveness just to placate the opposition.

I would say that Moderate Right is closer to being correct, but his point is incomplete. The parties have indeed purged their moderates, but said moderates have allowed themselves to be purged. Many have simply chosen to leave their party because the issues aren't that important enough to them to fight over. Might be their individual personalities abhorring confrontation, might be their lack of conviction for the issues, might be some of both. Regardless what the reason, it could be argued that the bullies in each party have taken over and sacrificed their party's overall health for their own narrow agendas.

 

[radcen]

I don't think she is a closet Republican. She isn't owned by Wall Street, but being a senator from NY must be close to many. Remember that a large portion of the biggest bank CEOs are Democrats. JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs to name a few.

I don't see her as a closet Republican, either, but she is beholden to Wall Street that she might as well be owned by them. I see no significant efforts to reform that area coming from her administration.

 

[washunut]

I don't see her as a closet Republican, either, but she is beholden to Wall Street that she might as well be owned by them. I see no significant efforts to reform that area coming from her administration.

We still have not put in place all of the regulations from Dodd Frank. She could break up a big bank with current legislation, under the living will provision. For that matter Obama could do it now.

 

[iguanaman]

I don't see her as a closet Republican, either, but she is beholden to Wall Street that she might as well be owned by them. I see no significant efforts to reform that area coming from her administration.

Bills originate in Congress not the oval office so you also think Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren will not make any efforts to introduce or get any bills passed as Senators? I heard Warren say she is excited about working with Hillary on the progressive agenda. I guess she is a liar too. In fact, according to some Sanders supporters there must be no one who wants progressive change at all anymore because mean old Hillary would not ignore her voters and give Sanders the nomination.

 

[mmi]

Can you tell me Hillary's position on Citizens United, campaign finance, Free Education, Breaking up the banks and opening the Federal Reserve, National Health care, Social Security?

All that inromation is easily accessible. Ya might try starting here: Hillary Clinton on the Issues.

 

[calm]

Typical Hillary just skirts around all the issues and says nothing of any consequence.

She generally says that she will look into it.

Bernie Sanders spelled it all out.

Calm

 

[radcen]

Bills originate in Congress not the oval office so you also think Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren will not make any efforts to introduce or get any bills passed as Senators? I heard Warren say she is excited about working with Hillary on the progressive agenda. I guess she is a liar too. In fact, according to some Sanders supporters there must be no one who wants progressive change at all anymore because mean old Hillary would not ignore her voters and give Sanders the nomination.

Sanders and/or Warren may very well make attempts. How much power do they wield in committee? Will said bills ever see a floor vote? Maybe, but don't hold your breath.

Except for what has proven thus far to be empty rhetoric, Hillary has shown no inclination toward actual and significant reform. As far as Warren saying she's excited about working with Hillary, I'm sure she is to some degree, but 1) people say lots of things during a campaign, and 2) Hillary is not as "progressive" as Warren or Sanders. She only moved that direction in the primaries because of Sanders' threat to her nomination. Campaigning 101... move to the right/left in the primary, move to the center in the general election campaign.

Your last sentence is incoherent.

 

[Greenbeard]

Typical Hillary just skirts around all the issues and says nothing of any consequence.

She generally says that she will look into it.

Bernie Sanders spelled it all out.

Calm

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/