If abortion = murder. Does contraception = mass murder ?

[jfuh]

And your silly swats serve nothing but to provide comic distraction. Seriously...read a little. I won't be "sucked in" to a conversation with you until you rise to a minimal level of worthy debate.

Belittling, and yet only more evasion.
I've read plenty of what you've said, and also directly asked you of your thoughts on birth control. You're against essentially all forms of birth control with the exception of pulling out or absenence. This tells me that you are completely arrogant of the realities in the real world and understand very little other than your evangelical beliefs. Thus all you've mentioned is nothing but religious rant. Since you can not distinguish between a cell and a being, not to mention the ignorance of my implications for not cutting your hair or cutting your nails. So let me explain it for you then. You argue even on implantation (religious fanatacism), well essentially then you are arguing of the potential for the life of a human being. However what you have failed to realize is that every single cell in your body has the potential to become another human entity.
Hence, I repeat again, if you can not even distinguish the difference between a single cell and an entire entity, or rather, in your case refuse to acknowledge the variance, you really have no basis for any rational arguments in this thread.
All your arguments stem not from facts or constitutional rights, but merely from your religious dogma.

 

[Felicity]

Belittling, and yet only more evasion.
I've read plenty of what you've said, and also directly asked you of your thoughts on birth control.

Have you been reading this thread? Why would I need to respond with the same position to you AND to Stinger?

You're against essentially all forms of birth control with the exception of pulling out or absenence.

See--that's wrong--I don't philosophically agree with coitus interuptus either! How 'bout that?

This tells me that you are completely arrogant of the realities in the real world

and I'm not at all concerned that you hold that opinion. What you call the "real world" is pretty much an intricate illusion of self deluding hedonists who are slaves to their appetites.

and understand very little other than your evangelical beliefs.

Get it right so you're not insulting the wrong religion. I'm not Evangelical--I'm Catholic. Commence the religion bashing at will....

Thus all you've mentioned is nothing but religious rant.

I'd like you to cite any "religious rant" ANYWHERE I have been guilty of.

Didn't think so...

Since you can not distinguish between a cell and a being, not to mention the ignorance of my implications for not cutting your hair or cutting your nails. So let me explain it for you then. You argue even on implantation (religious fanatacism), well essentially then you are arguing of the potential for the life of a human being.

Read those two "sentences" out loud....does it make sense to you?

Didn't think so.

However what you have failed to realize is that every single cell in your body has the potential to become another human entity.
Hence, I repeat again, if you can not even distinguish the difference between a single cell and an entire entity, or rather, in your case refuse to acknowledge the variance, you really have no basis for any rational arguments in this thread.
All your arguments stem not from facts or constitutional rights, but merely from your religious dogma.

Ok... :shrug: there is nothing one can say to bald ignorance...:2wave:

 

[jfuh]

Have you been reading this thread? Why would I need to respond with the same position to you AND to Stinger?
See--that's wrong--I don't philosophically agree with coitus interuptus either! How 'bout that?

What 'bout it? doesn't change anything. As I've said, evasion.

and I'm not at all concerned that you hold that opinion. What you call the "real world" is pretty much an intricate illusion of self deluding hedonists who are slaves to their appetites.

Slaves to appetites... illlusionist... hmm, let's see last I recall it is a constitutional right of every woman in this country to have an abortion, so come again about that illusionist part?

Get it right so you're not insulting the wrong religion. I'm not Evangelical--I'm Catholic. Commence the religion bashing at will....

It's not religion bashing, it's fundamentalist bashing. I could care less of what your actual faith is, the fact is your rants are nothing but fundamentalistism. A fundamentalism that is indifferent to those strapping bombs to themselves.

I'd like you to cite any "religious rant" ANYWHERE I have been guilty of.

Didn't think so...

What you think is irrelevant, because as I've stated quite clearly, your entire basis of your anti-choice argument stems from your religious beliefs, thus again your religious rant.

Read those two "sentences" out loud....does it make sense to you?

Didn't think so.

Makes perfect sense, unless you are ignorant of science.
Well here, perhaps this will get through your thick skull, everything you have stated thus far is against the destruction of a single cell. Identical to cutting of hair and cutting of nails.

Ok... :shrug: there is nothing one can say to bald ignorance...:2wave:

Evasion again? wow, you'll really do anything to get out of this since now all the facts are presented in your disfavor.

 

[Vandeervecken]

Point of fact here:

Hair and nails are not living tissue. Only the roots are living, what you cut is merely dead keratin.

 

[jfuh]

Point of fact here:

Hair and nails are not living tissue. Only the roots are living, what you cut is merely dead keratin.

Not entirely true, there is a good percentile of those cells that are alive as long as the roots are healthy.

 

[Vandeervecken]

Not entirely true, there is a good percentile of those cells that are alive as long as the roots are healthy.

Sorry but that is simply not the case.

Hair

 

[jfuh]

Sorry but that is simply not the case.

Hair

I suggest the reference to a human anatomy text book.

 

[Vandeervecken]

I suggest the reference to a human anatomy text book.

Provide one. The only anatomy book I have at hand, THE HUMAN BODY: A COMPREHENSIVE GUIDE TO THE STRUCTURE AND FUNCTIONS OF THE HUMAN BODY Arch Cafe Press (c)1989 ISBN: 0-517-68608-2 agrees with me.

 

[jfuh]

Provide one. The only anatomy book I have at hand, THE HUMAN BODY: A COMPREHENSIVE GUIDE TO THE STRUCTURE AND FUNCTIONS OF THE HUMAN BODY Arch Cafe Press (c)1989 ISBN: 0-517-68608-2 agrees with me.

Human Microscopic Anatomy: An Atlas for Students of Medicine and Biology by Radivoj V Krstic; Springer (c) 2004

Look at the integumentary system starts on page 214

 

[Felicity]

Human Microscopic Anatomy: An Atlas for Students of Medicine and Biology by Radivoj V Krstic; Springer (c) 2004

Look at the integumentary system starts on page 214

Here you go darlin'--here's the Cliff's Notes:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=177790&postcount=45

 

[Stinger]

Evasion....:roll:

No I stated my position to you inquirey, if you don't like it oh well.

So as I asked where do we differ in our opinion................or were you evading?

Do you support outlawing BC pills and the IUD?

If not then what is the arguement? Or were you evading?

 

[Stinger]

Not entirely true, there is a good percentile of those cells that are alive as long as the roots are healthy.

Nope, hair and nails are not living tissues and your statement that every cell in the human body has the potential to become a serperate human enitity is incorrect also. A fertilized egg needs nothing further than sustenance to survive. It is in that stage of that particular and unique life that EVERY human being as progressed through. Hair and nails and even living skins cell will never turn into full fledged human beings. They are a part of a human being and cannot survive without the rest of that human being or by artificial means. And at that if I put a skin cell in a petre dish with nurishment it will never grow into another human being. Human beings are made up of a variety of organs and tissues, but organs and tissues are not human beings.

 

[Felicity]

No I stated my position to you inquirey, if you don't like it oh well.

Where? More of the "mystery game"--I see.

Do you support outlawing BC pills and the IUD?

Answered even before you asked it...go back and read if you doubt.

If not then what is the arguement? Or were you evading?

Again--explained already....go back and actually read. You undermine pro-life credibility with your inconsistant stance. I don't like that. I take issue with that. Unless you can explain your inconsistant stance with logical reasoning rather than this silliness of semantics and mystery response..., I will call you on it. You do a disservice the the pro-life position. you don't have to agree with me--just be consistant in your reasoning.

 

[Stinger]

Where? More of the "mystery game"--I see.

No it was quite clear.

I really have no more time for you your nonsense. I asked you directly where we disagree and you can't answer the question.

Again--explained already....go back and actually read. You undermine pro-life credibility with your inconsistant stance.

Your simple declarations do not make it so. You said you do not support outlawing birth control neither do I.

 

[Felicity]

No it was quite clear.

I really have no more time for you your nonsense. I asked you directly where we disagree and you can't answer the question.

Agreed--I am confident that EVERYONE--on both sides of the issue can see I am the one who answered questions (took great pains to) and you are the one evading and accusing me of your own faults...It's not like anyone interested can't go back a few posts and see that FACT.


[qute]Your simple declarations do not make it so. .[/QUOTE]
likewise.

You said you do not support outlawing birth control neither do I

but that's not what is at issue, is it......

 

[jfuh]

Nope, hair and nails are not living tissues and your statement that every cell in the human body has the potential to become a serperate human enitity is incorrect also. A fertilized egg needs nothing further than sustenance to survive. It is in that stage of that particular and unique life that EVERY human being as progressed through. Hair and nails and even living skins cell will never turn into full fledged human beings. They are a part of a human being and cannot survive without the rest of that human being or by artificial means. And at that if I put a skin cell in a petre dish with nurishment it will never grow into another human being. Human beings are made up of a variety of organs and tissues, but organs and tissues are not human beings.

A misconception. All your arguments have been stemming from the potential of a fertilized egg or even simply the process of fertilization to grow into a seperate human entity. Thus I'm following your same exact guidlines of potential. Every single cell in your body has the potential to become a human being. In fact the only difference between cancerous tumors and stem cells is a switch to differentiate.
With cloning techniques or stemcell techniques, every single cell in your body as long as the genetic information is there has a good potential for these cells to "grow" into a seperate entity.
If you see my reasoning as irrational and completely dumbfounded, then you are also seeing the irrationality and rediculous non-sense of your "potential" arguments.

 

[Felicity]

In fact the only difference between cancerous tumors and stem cells is a switch to differentiate..

Didn't read the Cliff's Notes didja?:lol:

 

[jfuh]

Didn't read the Cliff's Notes didja?:lol:

Yes I did read your "notes".
Doesn't change anything, in particularily the fact of your fundamentalist "potential" framework.
I notice you draw one particular sentence out of my argument that is slightly related to what your "notes" reason, however it's completely irrelevant because it has nothing to do with the basis of my argument on your terms.

 

[Stinger]

A misconception. All your arguments have been stemming from the potential of a fertilized egg

Once it is fertilized it is not potential life anymore.

Thus I'm following your same exact guidlines of potential. Every single cell in your body has the potential to become a human being.

No they do not. In fact not one single cell in the human has the potential for becoming a complete different human being. You can put one in a petrie dish or even implant one in a woman's womb and it will NOT become a complete human being.

In fact the only difference between cancerous tumors and stem cells is a switch to differentiate.

A stem cell will never become a complete human being and there is a lot of difference between a cancerous cell and a stem cell.

With cloning techniques or stemcell techniques, every single cell in your body as long as the genetic information is there has a good potential for these cells to "grow" into a seperate entity.

No they don't, the cell is destroyed in the process when the DNA is implanted into an egg. And it all involves a very unnatural means to begin with.

If you see my reasoning as irrational and completely dumbfounded, then you are also seeing the irrationality and rediculous non-sense of your "potential" arguments.

Yes to the first and no to the second. And again I do not term a fetus as "potential" life.

 

[jfuh]

Once it is fertilized it is not potential life anymore.

Wrong, it is still merely a potential, as without implantation or over stress factors (natural abortion) the cell merely has the potential for becoming a being. Do not confuse religious ideology with the facts.

No they do not. In fact not one single cell in the human has the potential for becoming a complete different human being. You can put one in a petrie dish or even implant one in a woman's womb and it will NOT become a complete human being.

Want to put money where your words are? Keep in mind we are talking about potential. Here's a concept to think about before you make your final decision, cloning.

A stem cell will never become a complete human being and there is a lot of difference between a cancerous cell and a stem cell.

Wrong, again, key word, cloning.

No they don't, the cell is destroyed in the process when the DNA is implanted into an egg. And it all involves a very unnatural means to begin with.

The sperm cell is destroyed as well once it enters into the egg, all that is retained are the neucleotide sequences.
What does it matter whether it be natural or artificial. Purly talking about potential here.

Yes to the first and no to the second. And again I do not term a fetus as "potential" life.

That's your opinion, facts are do not correlate.

 

[Stinger]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinger
No. But there does seem to be a problem with your reading of them.


Originally Posted by Stinger in post #9
They actually prevent the womb from becoming receptive to an ovum, it can still happen but the odds are very low because the woman is preventing her body from becoming receptive. So if the ovum doesn't take it's like most ovums that pass through and out her body. And she certainly has a right to control the cycles of her body. THAT is having control over your body.

But once it has taken hold then it is a matter of purposely killing a life. THAT is killing purposely killing ANOTHER body.





OF course there is, reading it for what I actually said not what your misinterpretation of it is.

You clearly, and unequivically say that life begins when it has, "taken hold." That is implantation. There is no way to read that as anything else. What do you CLAIM you were saying here if not that? :rofl

Nope it is clearly and unequivically a false statement on your part. No where in the quote do I say any such thing. The life begins at conception, I clearly was writing about whether that life dies naturally, like most do, because the womb is not receptive and it lower the chance or survival (it still can and some do) or is purposely killed once it has implanted and is growing away in the womb.

 

[ProudAmerican]

Exactly, it's rediculous, as is your rediculous anti-choice ideals. Your ideology is completely based on fundamentalistic religious ideology.

not anti choice. anti murder.

and its got NOTHING to do with religion. its got EVERYTHING to do with morality.

I do not believe a person has to be religious to have morals.

do you?

 

[steen]

not anti choice. anti murder.

and its got NOTHING to do with religion. its got EVERYTHING to do with morality.

Abortion is not murder, pro-life, misogynistic, pro-slavery claims none withstanding.

I do not believe a person has to be religious to have morals.

do you?

Certainly, pushing abortion restrictions, oppressing and enslaving women is vey amoral.

 

[cherokee]

Once the egg is fertilized, killling it purposely is murder by definition.

Wow what a statement. :roll:

Well you have a lot of women to charge with murder then.
(By acident of not, killing is killing) Like every women who has passed a fertilized egg.

Or is that god’s fault?

 

[Seeker]

With contraception, the reproductive system is controlled to prevent life from even starting.

With abortion, the developing fetus is destroyed, halting a life-to-be.

So with contraception, you're not killing anything. :smile: