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If abortion = murder. Does contraception = mass murder ?

robin

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Catholics seem to think so.
What are your thoughts ?
 

vergiss

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And just think of all those "babies" miscarried before implantation, an estimates 40 - 60 percent of all zygotes! There ought to be memorial walls aplenty!
 

steen

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vergiss said:
And just think of all those "babies" miscarried before implantation, an estimates 40 - 60 percent of all zygotes! There ought to be memorial walls aplenty!
Ah yes. An Act of God. Is God the biggest "abortionist" and mass murderer? Or is the producer of birth control worse?
 

FISHX

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I,m actually all for contraception it helps to keep unplanned pregnancies down therefore cutting back on termination.
 

Peralin

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robin said:
Catholics seem to think so.
What are your thoughts ?

Uh, actually, if you knew anything about Catholicism you would know that the Catholic church believes that life starts at conception. Contraception prevents conception, so there is no destruction of life in contraception. The Chruch does say that contraception is sinful, but they do not believe that it is murder.
 

Vandeervecken

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Peralin said:
Uh, actually, if you knew anything about Catholicism you would know that the Catholic church believes that life starts at conception. Contraception prevents conception, so there is no destruction of life in contraception. The Chruch does say that contraception is sinful, but they do not believe that it is murder.
Depends on the type. IUD's and many forms of the birth control pill prevent implantation of the fertilized ovum, not conception.
 

ProudAmerican

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I thought contraception "prevented" pregnancy from ever occuring?

You cant kill what never existed to begin with, right?
 
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robin said:
Catholics seem to think so.
What are your thoughts ?
As a Catholic I can tell that your statement is totally false. True the Catholic Faith teaches using contraception is wrong, but it does not believe life starts before conception. Lets look at what I was taught by the good Sisters of Saint Joseph. Actually a priest came in and gave us this talk with a question and answer session. As I remember he describe sex for reproducing as well as for pleasure. Sex was for married people devoted to one another. Sex before marriage was a sin. (yes I have sin) but this does not make the Catholic Church wrong on the issue. Think of the problems it would solve if everyone practice what the church preaches. I think the world would be a better place. "So I give you this Irish Catholic blessing. May you be in heaven seven minutes before the devil knows you are dead"

Best wishes JP
 

Stinger

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Vandeervecken said:
Depends on the type. IUD's and many forms of the birth control pill prevent implantation of the fertilized ovum, not conception.
They actually prevent the womb from becoming receptive to an ovum, it can still happen but the odds are very low because the woman is preventing her body from becoming receptive. So if the ovum doesn't take it's like most ovums that pass through and out her body. And she certainly has a right to control the cycles of her body. THAT is having control over your body.

But once it has taken hold then it is a matter of purposely killing a life. THAT is killing purposely killing ANOTHER body.
 

vergiss

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Stinger said:
They actually prevent the womb from becoming receptive to an ovum, it can still happen but the odds are very low because the woman is preventing her body from becoming receptive. So if the ovum doesn't take it's like most ovums that pass through and out her body. And she certainly has a right to control the cycles of her body. THAT is having control over your body.

But once it has taken hold then it is a matter of purposely killing a life. THAT is killing purposely killing ANOTHER body.
WTF, so now life begins at implantation? :roll:
 

Stinger

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vergiss said:
WTF, so now life begins at implantation? :roll:
I don't think I said that at all.
 

Stinger

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steen said:
Ah yes. An Act of God. Is God the biggest "abortionist" and mass murderer? Or is the producer of birth control worse?
Do you really not understand that if the ovum doesn't implant then there is no abortion? Geez you guys are the ones that are pro-abortion and you don't even know what one is. And the birth control methods, which is a misnomer in itself, that are being brought up with the not very intellectual arguement which consist of "Well if you aren't against birth control then you cannnot be against abortion" are not abortifacients.
 

vergiss

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Stinger said:
Do you really not understand that if the ovum doesn't implant then there is no abortion? Geez you guys are the ones that are pro-abortion and you don't even know what one is. And the birth control methods, which is a misnomer in itself, that are being brought up with the not very intellectual arguement which consist of "Well if you aren't against birth control then you cannnot be against abortion" are not abortifacients.
Tell that to Felicity.

Stinger said:
I don't think I said that at all.
...so then you can murder something that's not alive?
 

Felicity

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vergiss said:
Tell that to Felicity.
maybe if I understood the sentence, I'd have something to comment on...as it stands, i'm not sure exactly WHAT is being said there...???:confused:
 

vergiss

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Felicity said:
maybe if I understood the sentence, I'd have something to comment on...as it stands, i'm not sure exactly WHAT is being said there...???:confused:
Stinger said that IUDs and hormonal contraceptives aren't abortifacients.
 

Stinger

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vergiss said:
Tell that to Felicity.
If I see her oK

Originally Posted by Stinger

I don't think I said that at all.



...so then you can murder something that's not alive?
I don't think I said anything about murder or anything being alive did I.
 

vergiss

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Stinger said:
I don't think I said anything about murder or anything being alive did I.
Semantics. You talked about "killing".
 

Vandeervecken

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Stinger said:
They actually prevent the womb from becoming receptive to an ovum, it can still happen but the odds are very low because the woman is preventing her body from becoming receptive. So if the ovum doesn't take it's like most ovums that pass through and out her body. And she certainly has a right to control the cycles of her body. THAT is having control over your body.

But once it has taken hold then it is a matter of purposely killing a life. THAT is killing purposely killing ANOTHER body.

You are the first person I ever met who thought that life begins at implantation. Care to explain the logic behind this position?
 

Vandeervecken

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Stinger said:
I don't think I said that at all.
Yes, that is indeed what you clearly and unequivocally said. You claimed that life begins at implantation. A first for me. Never heard anyone else make that claim before.
 

Felicity

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Vandeervecken said:
Yes, that is indeed what you clearly and unequivocally said. You claimed that life begins at implantation. A first for me. Never heard anyone else make that claim before.
That is not a unique position.
 

FutureIncoming

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The title of this Thread is,
"If abortion = muder, Does contraception = mass murder?"

THIS IS A LOADED QUESTION. Like any other loaded question, it contains a built-in assumption that you are expected to accept, before trying to answer the question. "Have you stopped beating your spouse?" assumes that you started (AND that you are married), see?

So, the assumption here is the part about abotion equalling murder. This assumption DOES NOT NEED TO BE MADE. It is an outright untruth. Murder is the killing of persons, while abortion is the killing of animals, of no more importance than the swatting of flies. The entire abortion controversy is due to hypocritical/prejudiced/deluded humans who think/claim that all human organisms, however purely animal they might happen to be in Actual Measurable Fact (like a single-celled zygote), are somehow and nevertheless more valuable and important than other/ordinary animals (like an equally single-celled parameceum). And they have absolutely NO evidence to support such a claim! Which is exactly why the claim is hypocritical, prejudiced, and deluded, of course. And why abortion is NOT murder.
 

Stinger

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Vandeervecken said:
You are the first person I ever met who thought that life begins at implantation. Care to explain the logic behind this position?
Actually your record is still zip since I don't believe that and any reasonable reading of my post would not have derived that.
 

Stinger

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Vandeervecken said:
Yes, that is indeed what you clearly and unequivocally said. You claimed that life begins at implantation. A first for me. Never heard anyone else make that claim before.
No I did not and nowhere can you cite where I did say that. Now if you want to discuss what I actually said have at it.
 

Stinger

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Felicity said:
That is not a unique position.
And certainly not mine as Mr. Vandeervecken has misrepresented.
 

Felicity

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Stinger said:
Actually your record is still zip since I don't believe that and any reasonable reading of my post would not have derived that.
I think I'm on record as saying I didn't understand what you were exactly saying.. wanna clear it up for me...us...?

When do you believe the life of a human being begins?

Why do you believe there is a difference between an act that "aborts" an implanted embryo, and an act that is designed to prevent the implantation of an embryo?

Is there a "moral" difference between the two acts?
 
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